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Old 07-08-2008, 08:54 AM   #26
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for some reason, I didn't really understand this post..can you clarify plz?, maybe it's just because I'm super tired..am I the only 1?..I don't mean to seem rude, i just don't really get it


No problem ... tired too+doing 2 things at the same time+english not being my mother language= crazy post

Summarized:
We have a picture of "SS in production trim". Meaning it would be ready for commercial launch. Meaning it would be available as soon as V6. Thinking you have to tease a little customers and bring upgrades within the first and second year, I'd say the convert will come later then chevy should release a top dog version V8 being the Z28.

My point is that I don't see chevy releasing the full range of camaros (V6, V8, convert) one shot. If we assume that and assume that the SS is ready for commercial launch, it would mean a higher version should be released within the first year. Thus it would be the Z28 with 500+hp.

Hope i'm clear enough. Anyway, my thoughts may be dumb even if understandable.

I gotta quit typing in english!

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Old 07-08-2008, 09:41 AM   #27
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I'm strictly a 1st Gen. (and 5th) fan. So I don't know much about the 2-4 generation Camaros. But, my general impression of the older Camaro models is:

Z28 = road race
SS = bad ass
RS = deluxe trim

Just my opinion. (from someone who owns a Camaro with a 327, "aftermarket" Z28 stripes, and no badges)
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:05 AM   #28
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The fact that Dragoneye and Tag and Moose and the other mods haven't posted in this thread says to me that they have some inside info but they're sworn to secrecy. (Yeah, I've noticed your little hints here and there Dragon!)

From what we've seen, it seems that the SS is nearly ready for launch. I thought Fbodfather or some other credible source confirmed that there would be a 'Hi-Po' car released 6/9/12/X months after the initial launch. If the SS is part of the initial launch, then clearly the Hi-Po is not the SS. So when people talk about Camaros, the most prevalent option packages are SS, RS, and Z/28. In many past years RS was strictly a cosmetic/exterior appearance package. So, knowing that the Fifth gen is definitely designed and created with previous generations in mind, it seems likely that they would use the pre-existing designations, instead of a new one. Other designations that were not common across all four previous generations are certainly an option, but some don't even make sense (COPO, for example wouldn't make sense as a badge because it was something totally different, not a trim level/option package).

Putting aside which SS's were faster and which Z/28's were faster, BOTH SS and Z/28 are commonly associated with Camaros across almost all generations. As several folks have said, the SS badge has been extended to many different models across the Chevrolet line-up, from the Cobalt to the Chevelle to the Impala to the Monte Carlo. This is simply not a badge that uniquely identifies the Camaro.

While there are other Zed cars like the Z24 Cavalier (*faint*), the Z71 package on K-Blazers/Tahoes/Avalanches/Silverados/etc, of course the Z06 and now the ZR1 on the Corvette and I'm sure several others, the Z/28 badge is uniquely Camaro. If Chevy was to offer a 'Top Dawg', I think the Z/28 is the most likely choice, given what we know today.

Of course it's absolutely possible they're going a completely different direction. But given the other tidbits that have leaked here and there about almost every other detail, I would think if they had some super secret model designation up their sleeve, we would have heard something about it by now. But then again, maybe that's why the mods haven't posted in this thread yet...

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Old 07-08-2008, 10:24 AM   #29
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The fact that Dragoneye and Tag and Moose and the other mods haven't posted in this thread says to me that they have some inside info but they're sworn to secrecy. (Yeah, I've noticed your little hints here and there Dragon!)

From what we've seen, it seems that the SS is nearly ready for launch. I thought Fbodfather or some other credible source confirmed that there would be a 'Hi-Po' car released 6/9/12/X months after the initial launch. If the SS is part of the initial launch, then clearly the Hi-Po is not the SS. So when people talk about Camaros, the most prevalent option packages are SS, RS, and Z/28. In many past years RS was strictly a cosmetic/exterior appearance package. So, knowing that the Fifth gen is definitely designed and created with previous generations in mind, it seems likely that they would use the pre-existing designations, instead of a new one. Other designations that were not common across all four previous generations are certainly an option, but some don't even make sense (COPO, for example wouldn't make sense as a badge because it was something totally different, not a trim level/option package).

Putting aside which SS's were faster and which Z/28's were faster, BOTH SS and Z/28 are commonly associated with Camaros across almost all generations. As several folks have said, the SS badge has been extended to many different models across the Chevrolet line-up, from the Cobalt to the Chevelle to the Impala to the Monte Carlo. This is simply not a badge that uniquely identifies the Camaro.

While there are other Zed cars like the Z24 Cavalier (*faint*), the Z71 package on K-Blazers/Tahoes/Avalanches/Silverados/etc, of course the Z06 and now the ZR1 on the Corvette and I'm sure several others, the Z/28 badge is uniquely Camaro. If Chevy was to offer a 'Top Dawg', I think the Z/28 is the most likely choice, given what we know today.

Of course it's absolutely possible they're going a completely different direction. But given the other tidbits that have leaked here and there about almost every other detail, I would think if they had some super secret model designation up their sleeve, we would have heard something about it by now. But then again, maybe that's why the mods haven't posted in this thread yet...

I agree with this post pretty much completely I've said it before, but like the previous post already said, SS is not unique anymore. Z28 will always be recognizable to Camaro's nameplate, just like Z06 and ZR1 to Corvette. It is my belief that GM needs to identify with the past (I mean come on; look how similar this car looks to a '69!!!) therefore, in my crazy head, they should pull from tradition a name with identity. We already see an SS looks to be available at launch, and it didn't seem to have the brakes of the latest 'Ring Camaro, so it seems to me, IF there is going to be a higher tier model, it will be Z28, or the like. Although I love the idea of a ZL1 badge, unless this car is a stripped down racer, I think it would be wrong to use that name. I mean come on; the price of that engine option was like greater than the cost of the car itself! I maintain that if there is a second V8 option, with higher performance potential, it will be Z28, or something else.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:32 PM   #30
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The fact that Dragoneye and Tag and Moose and the other mods haven't posted in this thread says to me that they have some inside info but they're sworn to secrecy. (Yeah, I've noticed your little hints here and there Dragon!)


(That counts as a response!)
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:04 PM   #31
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(That counts as a response!)
I think you just proved me right.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:08 PM   #32
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I think you just proved me right.
"Never assume, for it makes
an ASS out of U and ME"


Consider this my response.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:38 AM   #33
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Lol, nice.
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:17 AM   #34
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"Never assume, for it makes
an ASS out of U and ME"


Consider this my response.
Hehe. We both know that a few months ago, you would have been all over this thread posting. So clearly something has changed since then.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:33 PM   #35
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I agree with this post pretty much completely I've said it before, but like the previous post already said, SS is not unique anymore. Z28 will always be recognizable to Camaro's nameplate, just like Z06 and ZR1 to Corvette. It is my belief that GM needs to identify with the past (I mean come on; look how similar this car looks to a '69!!!) therefore, in my crazy head, they should pull from tradition a name with identity. We already see an SS looks to be available at launch, and it didn't seem to have the brakes of the latest 'Ring Camaro, so it seems to me, IF there is going to be a higher tier model, it will be Z28, or the like. Although I love the idea of a ZL1 badge, unless this car is a stripped down racer, I think it would be wrong to use that name. I mean come on; the price of that engine option was like greater than the cost of the car itself! I maintain that if there is a second V8 option, with higher performance potential, it will be Z28, or something else.
And of course SS was never "unique" to the Camaro, the first Chevy SS cars were Impalas back to at least the early '60s. So I would certainly agree, I've never thought of only Camaro when SS was mentioned (I think of Impala, Chevelle, and Nova first, then maybe Camaro), Z/28 no question you are talking about a Camaro.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:50 PM   #36
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Regarding the spy shots of the latest silver SS, it makes me a little suspicious that that was shot on a movie set (if I remember the article correctly). But, if we can assume that that car is content correct, then I think one can rest assured that if there is going to be a Z28 (and we've been told repeatedly to "keep the faith") it would be the top dog. I think that's as good an asumption as we could commit to right now anyways (i.e. whatever base V8 is released in a couple weeks or at Indy).

Just my .02.
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:07 PM   #37
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OK Dragon, I take back what I said about not wanting to be a mod for the boards. LEMME IN!

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Old 07-09-2008, 06:49 PM   #38
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I agree with this post pretty much completely I've said it before, but like the previous post already said, SS is not unique anymore. Z28 will always be recognizable to Camaro's nameplate, just like Z06 and ZR1 to Corvette. It is my belief that GM needs to identify with the past (I mean come on; look how similar this car looks to a '69!!!) therefore, in my crazy head, they should pull from tradition a name with identity. We already see an SS looks to be available at launch, and it didn't seem to have the brakes of the latest 'Ring Camaro, so it seems to me, IF there is going to be a higher tier model, it will be Z28, or the like. Although I love the idea of a ZL1 badge, unless this car is a stripped down racer, I think it would be wrong to use that name. I mean come on; the price of that engine option was like greater than the cost of the car itself! I maintain that if there is a second V8 option, with higher performance potential, it will be Z28, or something else.
I miss the ZR1 S-10's.

I mean ZR2 lol.
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:35 PM   #39
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While there are other Zed cars like the Z24 Cavalier (*faint*),
Hey now, I used to drive a Z24...only a 4 cylinder but it sure got better MPG than what I'm getting now. It was a POS, though.
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:36 AM   #40
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Only thing that has stayed 100% true throughout the camaro's life Is the "Z/28", that's what makes it so special, and that's why it should be super special in this generation...'cuz it's like a rebirth..in a way. which imo - is very special.
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:35 AM   #41
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Yes, there was an RS/SS model of the first-gen. It was an appearance trim/engine package combination.

The Z28 had a twitchy, high-revving 302 motor which gave the Camaro a lower weight and a beast of a track car. In 1/4 drags, if the "big iron" higher-HP blocks could hook up, not bog down or go up in wheelspin, it ~might~ with a good driver, drive around the Z/28 in a 1/4 mile. This probably happened less often than you might think.

The SS was a bigger displacement, heavier car with much more HP, and better performance numbers.

But, as an overall car, the Z/28, IMO, was regarded as the more "fun" car over the SS.

In fact, the Z28's still command a higher premium in auction over the SS's, from what I have seen.

Only the COPO cars command a higher premium. And it can be argued those weren't truly "production" cars since they were hush-hush "you had to know the code" cars that were limited to very few built units.

The SS may have been more popular, but the Z28 was more revered, as far as I know.

Therefore, disregarding pure HP and other specs, in the grand scheme of things, the Z/28 was "The" Camaro to have.

It was a nervous, twitchy, fun, and dangerous car to drive. It screamed, swayed, barked, and groaned.

The SS, with its bigger bloated iron, was the "hold it in a straight line and wait for the cubes to walk in the end" while hoping your rear tires didnt boil, and hoping it didn't bog while waiting a year for revving through the gears.

So, despite horsepower and displacement, the Z28 should be the "top dog."

And, as others have said - it's a purist Camaro thing. There never was any other Z28 model car, other than the Camaro.

To me, in modern equivalents, the FIRST GEN Z28 Camaro = Z06 Corvette. The SS Camaro = ZR1 Corvette, even though this doesn't jibe with the whole "top dog" theme, nor power estimates.

As what happened in the past, I believe the Z06 Corvette will be better-regarded as "the" Corvette to have in the future, while the ZR1 is a "show-off" car that doesn't really hold as well in the future.

No wonder people are confused!?!?

Some "facts:"

"Available 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Models:

Camaro Base Coupe

Camaro Base Convertible

Camaro RS Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro RS Rally Sport Convertible

Camaro Z28 Coupe

Camaro Z28 RS Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Coupe [X-10]

CAMARO Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Convertible [X-11]

Camaro SS Super Sport Coupe

Camaro SS Super Sport Convertible

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Convertible "

http://www.firstgencamaro.com/1969.html
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:37 AM   #42
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I LOVE being in the company of true enthusiasts; honestly. The kind of posts I've read in this thread (and many other for that matter) go to show how many people really love this car for more than the looks.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:46 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now View Post
Yes, there was an RS/SS model of the first-gen. It was an appearance trim/engine package combination.

The Z28 had a twitchy, high-revving 302 motor which gave the Camaro a lower weight and a beast of a track car. In 1/4 drags, if the "big iron" higher-HP blocks could hook up, not bog down or go up in wheelspin, it ~might~ with a good driver, drive around the Z/28 in a 1/4 mile. This probably happened less often than you might think.

The SS was a bigger displacement, heavier car with much more HP, and better performance numbers.

But, as an overall car, the Z/28, IMO, was regarded as the more "fun" car over the SS.

In fact, the Z28's still command a higher premium in auction over the SS's, from what I have seen.

Only the COPO cars command a higher premium. And it can be argued those weren't truly "production" cars since they were hush-hush "you had to know the code" cars that were limited to very few built units.

The SS may have been more popular, but the Z28 was more revered, as far as I know.

Therefore, disregarding pure HP and other specs, in the grand scheme of things, the Z/28 was "The" Camaro to have.
It was a nervous, twitchy, fun, and dangerous car to drive. It screamed, swayed, barked, and groaned.

The SS, with its bigger bloated iron, was the "hold it in a straight line and wait for the cubes to walk in the end" while hoping your rear tires didnt boil, and hoping it didn't bog while waiting a year for revving through the gears.

So, despite horsepower and displacement, the Z28 should be the "top dog."

And, as others have said - it's a purist Camaro thing. There never was any other Z28 model car, other than the Camaro.

To me, in modern equivalents, the FIRST GEN Z28 Camaro = Z06 Corvette. The SS Camaro = ZR1 Corvette, even though this doesn't jibe with the whole "top dog" theme, nor power estimates.

As what happened in the past, I believe the Z06 Corvette will be better-regarded as "the" Corvette to have in the future, while the ZR1 is a "show-off" car that doesn't really hold as well in the future.

No wonder people are confused!?!?

Some "facts:"

"Available 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Models:

Camaro Base Coupe

Camaro Base Convertible

Camaro RS Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro RS Rally Sport Convertible

Camaro Z28 Coupe

Camaro Z28 RS Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Coupe [X-10]

CAMARO Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Convertible [X-11]

Camaro SS Super Sport Coupe

Camaro SS Super Sport Convertible

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Convertible "

http://www.firstgencamaro.com/1969.html

Comments about bold

The Z/28 should be THE Camaro to have. not just a few
high $$$ GT500 killer cars.
the torque of the 396 makes it much less likely to BOG than the high revving 302, but I'd still prefer the Z/28 for the curves etc...
And the purist thing: Z/28 Camaro should be THE Camaro to have (again). I want it to be widely available AND affordable.... not a $40,000+ GT500kr type 'TOPDOG'.... not just the show-off car as you mentioned about the ZR1.
And wow, what if we could get 12 models
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:40 PM   #44
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Comments about bold

The Z/28 should be THE Camaro to have. not just a few
high $$$ GT500 killer cars.
the torque of the 396 makes it much less likely to BOG than the high revving 302, but I'd still prefer the Z/28 for the curves etc...
And the purist thing: Z/28 Camaro should be THE Camaro to have (again). I want it to be widely available AND affordable.... not a $40,000+ GT500kr type 'TOPDOG'.... not just the show-off car as you mentioned about the ZR1.
And wow, what if we could get 12 models
I thought I'd post an observation after watching the Vette ZR1 video with the in car cam on the 7:26.4 lap. The ring would have been the perfect place to show the difference between the '68/'69 Z/28 and the '68/'69 big blocks, the only place the big blocks would have had an advantage would have been the one long straightaway (where the ZR1 hits 176mph or so), but the Z/28 would have been so far ahead of the big block by that point on the track that it would not have mattered. I would have loved seeing a fifth gen. Z/28 with the track oriented content at a price point closer to the SS as it was in the first gen. Based on the rumours and speculation thus far it appears that if we get a Z/28 it will be priced considerably higher than the SS.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:32 AM   #45
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I thought I'd post an observation after watching the Vette ZR1 video with the in car cam on the 7:26.4 lap. The ring would have been the perfect place to show the difference between the '68/'69 Z/28 and the '68/'69 big blocks, the only place the big blocks would have had an advantage would have been the one long straightaway (where the ZR1 hits 176mph or so), but the Z/28 would have been so far ahead of the big block by that point on the track that it would not have mattered. I would have loved seeing a fifth gen. Z/28 with the track oriented content at a price point closer to the SS as it was in the first gen. Based on the rumours and speculation thus far it appears that if we get a Z/28 it will be priced considerably higher than the SS. Clyde
yea, that seems to be the (unconfirmed?) consensus.
I would just hope the base V8 would come with the 'handling suspension'
and have the Z be affordable, put the SUPER charger in the SUPER sport...
either way as some have said, they can call it a Z/28, RS, SS, ZS, S28, LT or 1LE I think we will still love it, or one of them...
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:39 AM   #46
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The fact that Dragoneye and Tag and Moose and the other mods haven't posted in this thread says to me that they have some inside info but they're sworn to secrecy. (Yeah, I've noticed your little hints here and there Dragon!)
I haven't posted because I haven't been here in a couple days. AND I will give an actual responce

My view on the SS vs Z28 discussion is that when both cars were on the market, the Z28 has typically made less power but also weighed less than the SS. I don't see why that should change. Also, during the history of the Camaro Z28's are more common to the line up (I think)
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:57 AM   #47
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Also, during the history of the Camaro Z28's are more common to the line up (I think)
seeing as how there wasn't an SS for the 3rd gen, i'd agree with that
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:23 AM   #48
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yea, that seems to be the (unconfirmed?) consensus.
I would just hope the base V8 would come with the 'handling suspension'
and have the Z be affordable, put the SUPER charger in the SUPER sport...
either way as some have said, they can call it a Z/28, RS, SS, ZS, S28, LT or 1LE I think we will still love it, or one of them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I thought I'd post an observation after watching the Vette ZR1 video with the in car cam on the 7:26.4 lap. The ring would have been the perfect place to show the difference between the '68/'69 Z/28 and the '68/'69 big blocks, the only place the big blocks would have had an advantage would have been the one long straightaway (where the ZR1 hits 176mph or so), but the Z/28 would have been so far ahead of the big block by that point on the track that it would not have mattered. I would have loved seeing a fifth gen. Z/28 with the track oriented content at a price point closer to the SS as it was in the first gen. Based on the rumours and speculation thus far it appears that if we get a Z/28 it will be priced considerably higher than the SS.
Clyde
Great points, all. And agreed.

I think they may have got their model names (if common assumptions hold true) backwards in this case, per SOME of our arguments. (most notably the fact that the SS was released after the Z28, that's all).

But as chad said, in the end, I don't care if they call it a "Fiero" ( ) personally, as long as the proper price/performance/weight/handling characteristics are there.

There's always the aftermarket for badges, and such.
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Last edited by 2KZ28_For_Now; 07-11-2008 at 02:26 AM. Reason: cant help myself. im self-contradictory sometimes
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:23 PM   #49
chadrcr
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Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now View Post
Great points, all. And agreed.

I think they may have got their model names (if common assumptions hold true) backwards in this case, per SOME of our arguments. (most notably the fact that the SS was released after the Z28, that's all).

But as chad said, in the end, I don't care if they call it a "Fiero" ( ) personally, as long as the proper price/performance/weight/handling characteristics are there.

There's always the aftermarket for badges, and such.
HEY! I draw the line at Fiero!!! I will take Chevette though!
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02 Z28 - - - sold :( miss it!
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by topgun1 View Post
I see that you are an extremely passionate person about this matter--good to have people on here that don't just state unfounded info with nothing to back it up and aren't just going off of someone else's opinion.
The truth is that I am only passionate about the truth. I don't want new members to be misled by the idea that we already know which trim is going to be superior. What we have been telling new members is the following:

• 550-hp Camaro Z28 LSA
• 430-hp Camaro SS LS3
• 300-hp Camaro (RS appearance package) LLT
• 260-hp Camaro (LS or LT) LNF

The truth as we know it is the following:

• approx. 400-hp Camaro V8 (unknown motor and trim)
• approx. 300-hp Camaro V6 LLT
• RS badging on a GMPP appearance package
• optional rims by GMPP
• stripe packages by GMPP
• sheer sweetness out of the factory (comes will all Camaros)

Absolutely no provable GM-sourced discussion or evidence exists of the following:

• Camaro Z28
• super Camaro featuring more horsepower than a Corvette

GM discussion does exist of the following:
• 6.2L motor (has been "corrected" to be approx. 6.0L, suggesting either LS3 or L76 or others)
• SS trim
• sharing parts with G8 on Zeta platform
• any LS7 or LSA Camaro
• 260-hp Camaro I4 LNF

I am only posting to prevent confusion. We don't want new members getting confused and starting threads about why the Z28 doesn't exist or how much horsepower the LSA Camaro will get. We just want to be the most correct and reliable new Camaro site around. For that reason, I think it is important that any misconceptions get corrected, especially since we are so close to production. We don't want any disappointed fans going out and buying Mustangs, do we?
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