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Old 07-10-2008, 07:46 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now View Post
Yes, there was an RS/SS model of the first-gen. It was an appearance trim/engine package combination.

The Z28 had a twitchy, high-revving 302 motor which gave the Camaro a lower weight and a beast of a track car. In 1/4 drags, if the "big iron" higher-HP blocks could hook up, not bog down or go up in wheelspin, it ~might~ with a good driver, drive around the Z/28 in a 1/4 mile. This probably happened less often than you might think.

The SS was a bigger displacement, heavier car with much more HP, and better performance numbers.

But, as an overall car, the Z/28, IMO, was regarded as the more "fun" car over the SS.

In fact, the Z28's still command a higher premium in auction over the SS's, from what I have seen.

Only the COPO cars command a higher premium. And it can be argued those weren't truly "production" cars since they were hush-hush "you had to know the code" cars that were limited to very few built units.

The SS may have been more popular, but the Z28 was more revered, as far as I know.

Therefore, disregarding pure HP and other specs, in the grand scheme of things, the Z/28 was "The" Camaro to have.
It was a nervous, twitchy, fun, and dangerous car to drive. It screamed, swayed, barked, and groaned.

The SS, with its bigger bloated iron, was the "hold it in a straight line and wait for the cubes to walk in the end" while hoping your rear tires didnt boil, and hoping it didn't bog while waiting a year for revving through the gears.

So, despite horsepower and displacement, the Z28 should be the "top dog."

And, as others have said - it's a purist Camaro thing. There never was any other Z28 model car, other than the Camaro.

To me, in modern equivalents, the FIRST GEN Z28 Camaro = Z06 Corvette. The SS Camaro = ZR1 Corvette, even though this doesn't jibe with the whole "top dog" theme, nor power estimates.

As what happened in the past, I believe the Z06 Corvette will be better-regarded as "the" Corvette to have in the future, while the ZR1 is a "show-off" car that doesn't really hold as well in the future.

No wonder people are confused!?!?

Some "facts:"

"Available 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Models:

Camaro Base Coupe

Camaro Base Convertible

Camaro RS Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro RS Rally Sport Convertible

Camaro Z28 Coupe

Camaro Z28 RS Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Coupe [X-10]

CAMARO Indy 500 Pace Car Replica Convertible [X-11]

Camaro SS Super Sport Coupe

Camaro SS Super Sport Convertible

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Coupe

Camaro SS RS Super Sport Rally Sport Convertible "

http://www.firstgencamaro.com/1969.html

Comments about bold

The Z/28 should be THE Camaro to have. not just a few
high $$$ GT500 killer cars.
the torque of the 396 makes it much less likely to BOG than the high revving 302, but I'd still prefer the Z/28 for the curves etc...
And the purist thing: Z/28 Camaro should be THE Camaro to have (again). I want it to be widely available AND affordable.... not a $40,000+ GT500kr type 'TOPDOG'.... not just the show-off car as you mentioned about the ZR1.
And wow, what if we could get 12 models
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by chadrcr View Post
Comments about bold

The Z/28 should be THE Camaro to have. not just a few
high $$$ GT500 killer cars.
the torque of the 396 makes it much less likely to BOG than the high revving 302, but I'd still prefer the Z/28 for the curves etc...
And the purist thing: Z/28 Camaro should be THE Camaro to have (again). I want it to be widely available AND affordable.... not a $40,000+ GT500kr type 'TOPDOG'.... not just the show-off car as you mentioned about the ZR1.
And wow, what if we could get 12 models
I thought I'd post an observation after watching the Vette ZR1 video with the in car cam on the 7:26.4 lap. The ring would have been the perfect place to show the difference between the '68/'69 Z/28 and the '68/'69 big blocks, the only place the big blocks would have had an advantage would have been the one long straightaway (where the ZR1 hits 176mph or so), but the Z/28 would have been so far ahead of the big block by that point on the track that it would not have mattered. I would have loved seeing a fifth gen. Z/28 with the track oriented content at a price point closer to the SS as it was in the first gen. Based on the rumours and speculation thus far it appears that if we get a Z/28 it will be priced considerably higher than the SS.
Clyde
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:32 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I thought I'd post an observation after watching the Vette ZR1 video with the in car cam on the 7:26.4 lap. The ring would have been the perfect place to show the difference between the '68/'69 Z/28 and the '68/'69 big blocks, the only place the big blocks would have had an advantage would have been the one long straightaway (where the ZR1 hits 176mph or so), but the Z/28 would have been so far ahead of the big block by that point on the track that it would not have mattered. I would have loved seeing a fifth gen. Z/28 with the track oriented content at a price point closer to the SS as it was in the first gen. Based on the rumours and speculation thus far it appears that if we get a Z/28 it will be priced considerably higher than the SS. Clyde
yea, that seems to be the (unconfirmed?) consensus.
I would just hope the base V8 would come with the 'handling suspension'
and have the Z be affordable, put the SUPER charger in the SUPER sport...
either way as some have said, they can call it a Z/28, RS, SS, ZS, S28, LT or 1LE I think we will still love it, or one of them...
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by MattG View Post
The fact that Dragoneye and Tag and Moose and the other mods haven't posted in this thread says to me that they have some inside info but they're sworn to secrecy. (Yeah, I've noticed your little hints here and there Dragon!)
I haven't posted because I haven't been here in a couple days. AND I will give an actual responce

My view on the SS vs Z28 discussion is that when both cars were on the market, the Z28 has typically made less power but also weighed less than the SS. I don't see why that should change. Also, during the history of the Camaro Z28's are more common to the line up (I think)
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:57 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Also, during the history of the Camaro Z28's are more common to the line up (I think)
seeing as how there wasn't an SS for the 3rd gen, i'd agree with that
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:23 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadrcr View Post
yea, that seems to be the (unconfirmed?) consensus.
I would just hope the base V8 would come with the 'handling suspension'
and have the Z be affordable, put the SUPER charger in the SUPER sport...
either way as some have said, they can call it a Z/28, RS, SS, ZS, S28, LT or 1LE I think we will still love it, or one of them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I thought I'd post an observation after watching the Vette ZR1 video with the in car cam on the 7:26.4 lap. The ring would have been the perfect place to show the difference between the '68/'69 Z/28 and the '68/'69 big blocks, the only place the big blocks would have had an advantage would have been the one long straightaway (where the ZR1 hits 176mph or so), but the Z/28 would have been so far ahead of the big block by that point on the track that it would not have mattered. I would have loved seeing a fifth gen. Z/28 with the track oriented content at a price point closer to the SS as it was in the first gen. Based on the rumours and speculation thus far it appears that if we get a Z/28 it will be priced considerably higher than the SS.
Clyde
Great points, all. And agreed.

I think they may have got their model names (if common assumptions hold true) backwards in this case, per SOME of our arguments. (most notably the fact that the SS was released after the Z28, that's all).

But as chad said, in the end, I don't care if they call it a "Fiero" ( ) personally, as long as the proper price/performance/weight/handling characteristics are there.

There's always the aftermarket for badges, and such.
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Last edited by 2KZ28_For_Now; 07-11-2008 at 01:26 AM. Reason: cant help myself. im self-contradictory sometimes
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:23 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now View Post
Great points, all. And agreed.

I think they may have got their model names (if common assumptions hold true) backwards in this case, per SOME of our arguments. (most notably the fact that the SS was released after the Z28, that's all).

But as chad said, in the end, I don't care if they call it a "Fiero" ( ) personally, as long as the proper price/performance/weight/handling characteristics are there.

There's always the aftermarket for badges, and such.
HEY! I draw the line at Fiero!!! I will take Chevette though!
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun1 View Post
I see that you are an extremely passionate person about this matter--good to have people on here that don't just state unfounded info with nothing to back it up and aren't just going off of someone else's opinion.
The truth is that I am only passionate about the truth. I don't want new members to be misled by the idea that we already know which trim is going to be superior. What we have been telling new members is the following:

• 550-hp Camaro Z28 LSA
• 430-hp Camaro SS LS3
• 300-hp Camaro (RS appearance package) LLT
• 260-hp Camaro (LS or LT) LNF

The truth as we know it is the following:

• approx. 400-hp Camaro V8 (unknown motor and trim)
• approx. 300-hp Camaro V6 LLT
• RS badging on a GMPP appearance package
• optional rims by GMPP
• stripe packages by GMPP
• sheer sweetness out of the factory (comes will all Camaros)

Absolutely no provable GM-sourced discussion or evidence exists of the following:

• Camaro Z28
• super Camaro featuring more horsepower than a Corvette

GM discussion does exist of the following:
• 6.2L motor (has been "corrected" to be approx. 6.0L, suggesting either LS3 or L76 or others)
• SS trim
• sharing parts with G8 on Zeta platform
• any LS7 or LSA Camaro
• 260-hp Camaro I4 LNF

I am only posting to prevent confusion. We don't want new members getting confused and starting threads about why the Z28 doesn't exist or how much horsepower the LSA Camaro will get. We just want to be the most correct and reliable new Camaro site around. For that reason, I think it is important that any misconceptions get corrected, especially since we are so close to production. We don't want any disappointed fans going out and buying Mustangs, do we?
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:10 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KZ28_For_Now View Post
(most notably the fact that the SS was released after the Z28, that's all).
:
I'm puzzled by this comment, could you explain what you meant.
Clyde
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:28 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
The truth is that I am only passionate about the truth. I don't want new members to be misled by the idea that we already know which trim is going to be superior. What we have been telling new members is the following:

• 550-hp Camaro Z28 LSA
• 430-hp Camaro SS LS3
• 300-hp Camaro (RS appearance package) LLT
• 260-hp Camaro (LS or LT) LNF

The truth as we know it is the following:

• approx. 400-hp Camaro V8 (unknown motor and trim)
• approx. 300-hp Camaro V6 LLT
• RS badging on a GMPP appearance package
• optional rims by GMPP
• stripe packages by GMPP
• sheer sweetness out of the factory (comes will all Camaros)

Absolutely no provable GM-sourced discussion or evidence exists of the following:

• Camaro Z28
• super Camaro featuring more horsepower than a Corvette

GM discussion does exist of the following:
• 6.2L motor (has been "corrected" to be approx. 6.0L, suggesting either LS3 or L76 or others)
• SS trim
• sharing parts with G8 on Zeta platform
• any LS7 or LSA Camaro
• 260-hp Camaro I4 LNF

I am only posting to prevent confusion. We don't want new members getting confused and starting threads about why the Z28 doesn't exist or how much horsepower the LSA Camaro will get. We just want to be the most correct and reliable new Camaro site around. For that reason, I think it is important that any misconceptions get corrected, especially since we are so close to production. We don't want any disappointed fans going out and buying Mustangs, do we?
Excellent post! And is right on.
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:24 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by TAG UR IT View Post
Excellent post! And is right on.
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:26 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I'm puzzled by this comment, could you explain what you meant.
Clyde
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
The truth is that I am only passionate about the truth. I don't want new members to be misled by the idea that we already know which trim is going to be superior. What we have been telling new members is the following:

• 550-hp Camaro Z28 LSA
• 430-hp Camaro SS LS3
• 300-hp Camaro (RS appearance package) LLT
• 260-hp Camaro (LS or LT) LNF

The truth as we know it is the following:

• approx. 400-hp Camaro V8 (unknown motor and trim)
• approx. 300-hp Camaro V6 LLT
• RS badging on a GMPP appearance package
• optional rims by GMPP
• stripe packages by GMPP
• sheer sweetness out of the factory (comes will all Camaros)

Absolutely no provable GM-sourced discussion or evidence exists of the following:

• Camaro Z28
• super Camaro featuring more horsepower than a Corvette

GM discussion does exist of the following:
• 6.2L motor (has been "corrected" to be approx. 6.0L, suggesting either LS3 or L76 or others)
• SS trim
• sharing parts with G8 on Zeta platform
• any LS7 or LSA Camaro
• 260-hp Camaro I4 LNF

I am only posting to prevent confusion. We don't want new members getting confused and starting threads about why the Z28 doesn't exist or how much horsepower the LSA Camaro will get. We just want to be the most correct and reliable new Camaro site around. For that reason, I think it is important that any misconceptions get corrected, especially since we are so close to production. We don't want any disappointed fans going out and buying Mustangs, do we?
What he said.
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:47 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by chadrcr View Post
HEY! I draw the line at Fiero!!! I will take Chevette though!
Exactly. It starts with a "C" -- Right!?!?

Relax folks, we're just "theorizing" here.

July 22.
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Old 07-12-2008, 02:41 PM   #56
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Gm doesn't have to produce an lSA camaro because it has the vette (z06 zr1) to do it's jaw dropping and record breaking. Ive always been a Z-28 guy due to the price\performance ratio that exists between the z and the SS, I mean 10-15 hp doesn't justify the extra cash...not to me. I'd like to see the z28 on top and although I most likely won't be shelling out the extra cash I'd be proud to see one cruising around every once and a while.

With the current energy crisis that we're going through a supercharged 91 octane drinking beast might not make it out for public consumption.
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