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Old 09-23-2009, 01:05 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomato View Post
Very good info here. The first gen Z/28s were built with the 302 CI motor to make them eligible for Trans Am racing. They used the 283 crank (stroke) in a 327 block (bore). The cars were light and handled extremely well. Rated HP was only 290, although many argue that they put out at least 350. Either way, the SS has always been the big dog on power.

I agree that they got it backwards this time around...

From Wiki-pedia:

The SS included a 350 cu in (5.7 L) V8 engine and the L35 and L78 396 cu in (6.5 L) big-block V8's were also available. The SS featured non-functional air inlets on the hood, special striping and SS badging on the grille, front fenders, gas cap, and horn button. It was possible to order both the SS and RS to receive a Camaro RS/SS. In 1967, a Camaro RS/SS convertible with a 396 engine paced the Indianapolis 500 race.

The Z/28 option code was introduced in December 1966 for the 1967 model year. This option package wasn't mentioned in any sales literature, so it was unknown to most buyers. The Z/28 option required power front disc brakes and a Muncie 4-speed manual transmission. The Z/28 featured a 302 cu in (4.9 L) small-block V-8 engine, 3" crankshaft with 4" bore, an aluminum intake manifold, and a 4-barrel vacuum secondary Holley carburetor of 780CFM. The engine was designed specifically to race in the Trans Am series (which required engines smaller than 305 cu in (5 L) and public availability of the car. Advertised power of this engine was listed at 290 hp (216 kW). This is an under-rated figure. Chevrolet wanted to keep the horsepower rating at less than 1hp per cubic inch, for various reasons (e.g. insurance and racing classes). The factory rating of 290 hp occurred at 5300 rpm, while actual peak for the high-revving 302 was closer to 360 hp (268 kW) (with the single four barrel carb) and 400 hp (298 kW) (with optional dual-four barrel carbs) at 6800-7000 rpm. The Z/28 also came with upgraded suspension, racing stripes on the hood and trunk lid, '302' front fender emblems on the early cars, and 'Z/28' emblems in late 68 & 69. It was also possible to combine the Z/28 package with the RS package.

Hope this helps
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:06 AM   #121
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I don't think I'd consider a 1st Gen SS a base car with Z28 parts because probably the most notable highlights of that generation Z28 was the little DZ302. You couldn't get that engine in an SS, or any other model because the torque wasn't there to move the car, so-to-speak. If I remember correctly, one couldn't even order a slushbox with the 302 because of the lack of low-end torque. That's not to say you couldn't swap converters with a TH350 or 400 and get all crazy at the strip, but I believe there were only M21s and M22 4-speeds available for that engine. The smallest engine in the SS was a 327 or 350. The other big highlight with the Z28 was the chassis; available disc brakes and other goodies made it handle at the track really well. The SS was the 1320' and street bruiser. You couldn't get anything but the 302 in Z28, while you could go as high as 454 (at the very end of the 1st Gen if I remember correctly - LS6) if you knew the right people; I know, for sure, there were L72 427s, L78 3696s, and ZL1 427s to be had too.

More to you question, probably no one would know, outside of GM. I think the SSs from the 4th Gen were REALLY popular; I don't have production figures handy, but I'd be willing to bet there was a higher demand for them than Z28s, mostly because of body and some subtle chassis refinements. This time around though, I just don't know why. I'll be the first to admit I recognize the Z28 it looks like we could likely see will not be a blast from the past, in that it's going to be heavier and have more power than the SS. Shoot, if it handles better, that might be a miracle, especially if they can keep the price reasonable to most regular Camaro-nuts. I think the SS fell in line with the rest of the Chevy line, being they had Cobalts, Impalas, Silverados, Trailblazers, all with SS credentials. Maybe Chevy thought they could grab more attention, right out of the gate. Personally, I think that was the case, and that they wanted to release a higher performing car a few years later. It seems, more often than not, that the Big Dawg model usually comes out a little later than the more mainstream models (except for the Challengers). Anyways, I think it's fair to say that Z28 will, at least, be a higher-performance car, considering the Mustang GT with the Track Pack does so well; and I won't even mention the elephant in the room... Whos though? It's definately safe to say that even if it doesn't come back, that we have one Hell of a Camaro with SS and I'd be pretty happy to roll one of those babies too

JMVHO.
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:21 AM   #122
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The reason to use the Z28 moniker is because it has brand recognition, and many of the people that recognize Z28 simply expect a V8 engine. There really isn't room for another V8 in the Camaro lineup unless it's supercharged so there you go.

Personally I still think GM would do well to consider a Z28 option as counter to Ford's trackpack. Z28 is waay cooler than trackpack and if they do make a topdog with a supercharger they still have a classic legendary tag to draw from with the '69 ZL1 which also happens to pair nicely the Corvette's topdog ZR1 branding.
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:51 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandotron View Post
That was true for the First Gen, and it's true for the Fifth Gen. Z28 played second fiddle to the SS in the Fourth gen, and it played second fiddle to the IROC in the Third. Not sure about Second gen, maybe somebody can chime in?
Except for early 67's which some had drums, the SS had disc brakes, a different hood, console gauges, a tach in the dash, muncie transmission, 12 bolt rear end and multi-leaf springs, 350 had four, 396 had five leafs. The 350 had a nose stripe.

The 67 Z was plain looking I don't believe it even had emblems. The raised hood came out sometime for the 69.

Last edited by PieNsky; 09-23-2009 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:56 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
CALLING WILDPAWS!!!

I don't think I'd consider a 1st Gen SS a base car with Z28 parts because probably the most notable highlights of that generation Z28 was the little DZ302. You couldn't get that engine in an SS, or any other model because the torque wasn't there to move the car, so-to-speak. If I remember correctly, one couldn't even order a slushbox with the 302 because of the lack of low-end torque. That's not to say you couldn't swap converters with a TH350 or 400 and get all crazy at the strip, but I believe there were only M21s and M22 4-speeds available for that engine. The smallest engine in the SS was a 327 or 350. The other big highlight with the Z28 was the chassis; available disc brakes and other goodies made it handle at the track really well. The SS was the 1320' and street bruiser. You couldn't get anything but the 302 in Z28, while you could go as high as 454 (at the very end of the 1st Gen if I remember correctly - LS6) if you knew the right people; I know, for sure, there were L72 427s, L78 3696s, and ZL1 427s to be had too.

More to you question, probably no one would know, outside of GM. I think the SSs from the 4th Gen were REALLY popular; I don't have production figures handy, but I'd be willing to bet there was a higher demand for them than Z28s, mostly because of body and some subtle chassis refinements. This time around though, I just don't know why. I'll be the first to admit I recognize the Z28 it looks like we could likely see will not be a blast from the past, in that it's going to be heavier and have more power than the SS. Shoot, if it handles better, that might be a miracle, especially if they can keep the price reasonable to most regular Camaro-nuts. I think the SS fell in line with the rest of the Chevy line, being they had Cobalts, Impalas, Silverados, Trailblazers, all with SS credentials. Maybe Chevy thought they could grab more attention, right out of the gate. Personally, I think that was the case, and that they wanted to release a higher performing car a few years later. It seems, more often than not, that the Big Dawg model usually comes out a little later than the more mainstream models (except for the Challengers). Anyways, I think it's fair to say that Z28 will, at least, be a higher-performance car, considering the Mustang GT with the Track Pack does so well; and I won't even mention the elephant in the room... Whos though? It's definately safe to say that even if it doesn't come back, that we have one Hell of a Camaro with SS and I'd be pretty happy to roll one of those babies too

JMVHO.
M20 was wide ratio, M21 was close ratio and the M22 was a HD close ratio with a high 1st gear that you had to have at least a 4:11 rear to get it.

The 454 came out in 1970 and wasn't in a 1st Gen.

The SS was either a 350 or a 396. The 327 was never a SS in a 1st Gen.
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Old 09-23-2009, 02:41 AM   #125
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IMO its Chevy, they do wat they want becuz they r that bad ass...
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Old 09-23-2009, 03:50 AM   #126
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food for thought! the SS stands for Super Sport and the Z28 stands for what?
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:03 AM   #127
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This is like a history for me. I know nothing about any of this. Good thread!
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:39 AM   #128
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Why? Anything can be a SS, there can only be one Z/28.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:45 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z/28orSs View Post
food for thought! the SS stands for Super Sport and the Z28 stands for what?
Z28 stands for nothing. It was an RPO code, just like Z06.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:48 AM   #130
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^^^ beat me to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z/28orSs View Post
food for thought! the SS stands for Super Sport and the Z28 stands for what?
z28 started as just an rpo code, but it was so popular that they started making actual z28 camaros.

as for the iroc vs z28. They are the same car. The only difference being a sticker. The fastest stock third gens were 1991 z28s.

As for the 4th gens, SS camaros were pretty much a ripoff. They came with bigger wheels and a ram air hood, and the only spoiler both cars should of gotten from the factory in the first place.

Besides that you could get different suspension and a hurst shifter, with some high performace floor mats. Both ran the 1/4 mile the same. Unless you believe the ss hood added 20hp.

Last edited by rodimus prime; 09-23-2009 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:51 AM   #131
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I just hope they definitely supercharge the 6.2, they should have had a supercharged option for the 2010's.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:11 AM   #132
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I HAVE AN SS-RS .I THINK THE Z/28 IS A SWEET DEAL TO COUNTER THE GT/500.CHEVY ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE THIS VEHICLE BECAUSE SOME OF US ARE CRYING FOUL.WERE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.THIS VEHICLE WILL BE IN THE HIGH 40K DOLLAR TERRATORY.I'LL TAKE MY SS THAT COMES I THE MID TO LOW 30K DOLLAR RANGE AND TAKE THE EXTRY MONEY AN MOD IT TO MY SPECS.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:27 AM   #133
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There is a simple reason. While the SS was historicaly the top of the line street HP car because it was always marketed that way. You could order them as hot as your wallet could handle. The first gen Z/28 was a purpose built option that had only one reason to exist. They had to make it available to the public in order to claim it was a "stock street vehicle" when in reality it was really just a homologated race car.

The Z/28 was part of the "Win on Sunday - Sell on Monday" concept. If you remember the great sucess that Ford had selling the original early-mid 60's Mustang you will understand why we even have a Camaro at all. The Camaro is a direct result of the Ford having the Mustang.

The Mustang was actively competing in SCCA sanctioned road racing events in the 5 liter and under stock class. Chevrolet wanted to sell a lot of Camaros and they needed to win at the Mustang track and at the Chevy showroom. The way to compete against them on a level playing field and show all the potential customers who was the best car to buy was to enter that same 5 Liter class then beat the snot out of the Mustangs. They did exactly that.

The Z/28 is the Champion with the winning sactioned racing heritage against Mustangs to show for it. While the SS has always traditionaly been a top dog street bruiser, it does not have the same race winning heritage as the Z/28.

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Old 09-23-2009, 08:41 AM   #134
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I wondered the same thing since I heard the V8 model was being considered the SS. As has been mentioned, that is usually the top of the line with lower production numbers. You can see a breakdown of production numbers by year/model at - http://www.camaro-registry.com/production.htm . I did a quick scan through the list and see that there were 12 more SS models built than Z-28s in 2001.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:57 AM   #135
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I think one more fact should be revealled, the SS package has been offered for just about every model Chevorlet has to offer. You could get an Impala, Monte Carlo, HHR, Cobalt, fullsize truck, Chevelle/Malibu, Nova/Chevy II or even a Trailblazer with the SS package. However the Z/28 package was only offered in the Camaro!
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:03 AM   #136
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This discussion will go on forever. It all depends on your point of view as to what is important.

Straight line performance or Road Course handling. THat was the basic division between the original Z28 and top of line SS way back at the beginning. (Also the suspensions, engine and other differences.)

It all became very diluted over time due to Fuel Economy and Emissions requirements.

I for one really don't care. It is nice to see the Z28 come back. Will I buy one, no.

I bought my 2SS and am happy with that. I don't need the mega performance of the Z28. For those that do, enjoy the ride when it hits the streets.

THere are several books on the History of the Camaro that exist. I would suggest that the uninitiated would check those out and do some personal research on the History of the Camaro. (Yeah that means getting off of the computer and doing some good old fashioned reading.)
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