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Old 05-21-2010, 06:01 PM   #1
WayneBrady
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Twin Turbo Camaro

I do not understand the whol bit about,

"We will build it if people will come"

"We are trying to sell a single turbo tune"

"Twin turbo on the V6 is too much work..."


When Jay Leno has a 425 hp TT V6. Based off the power gains, to 400 HP, every one is trying to advertise for a V6, I'd imagine that there is something wrong somewhere along the lines.

V6 = 305 hp

Leno's V6 TT = 425

Advertised STS V6 = 400

The first turbo tune does 400hp-305hp = 95 hp, and if Leno's TT does 425, then the extra tune, or TT, produces 425hp - 400hp = 25 hp.

That is a remarkable difference in performance produced, granted I do not know anything about car mechanics. I can only understand it in the following two ways

1.These tuning companies would outdo Chevy if they made a TT V6, by 95hp, 95hp x 2 = 190hp. && the tuning companies know something that Chevy doesn't && each turbo boost does the same amount of performance boost

||

2. The tuning companies are over estimating what their STS, if they actually complete a functioning model, would produce, && tuning companies would like to reverse engineer Leno's car to see how Chevy turboed it && each turbo boost does not do the same amount of performance.

This is saying that we believe Leno's Camo is 425 hp....but I really don't see why he would like....much less even have to get a camo wit the kind of dough he has he can get a super car. In othr words, I believe him, and revert back to my question about which is right, 1 or 2?
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:09 PM   #2
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Ok.. your post is very hard to follow... but you are definitely mixing crank HP and rear wheel HP... When you take your car to a dyno shop they put your car on a chassis dyno and measure your rear wheel HP (assuming you have a RWD car... LOL)

The stock V6 is 312 HP at the crank (engine). Automatics typically have 245ish RWHP (Rear Wheel Horsepower). Manuals are right around 260ish RHWP. The difference is doe to "Drive train loss".

The STS turbo car dyno'd at 400 RWHP.... assuming typical drive train loss the crank/engine HP is going to be around 480 HP... so you see 480 HP is a lot more than 312 HP!

Not sure of all the specs on the Jay Leno TT V6... but again... i think it's a matter of HP vs RWHP...
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:14 PM   #3
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I read this post over 3 times and I still have no clue what you are talking about. other than jay leno's car has 425 hp, some sts has 400 hp (i'm guessing squires turbo systems).

maybe it's just me?
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:20 PM   #4
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You can't really compare the HP that a single adds vs a dual setup.
Twin turbos are not necessarily adding more power. Most twins are set up so that they are smaller than the single turbo, in order to spool up quicker (so that there is less lag when the turbos are spooling up).

The limit to the amount of power you can make isn't really the turbos, it's the engine internals. You can add bigger turbos (and more fuel), but sooner or later something's gonna give in the engine.
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Old 05-22-2010, 04:26 AM   #5
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if your talking just the hp side of things it doesnt matter how many turbos you have its all about boost, but most of the time single turbos make more hp....but the turbo takes longer to build boost, if you have 2 turbos it will build boost faster because the turbos are smaller but smaller turbos cant handle as much boost as a bigger turbo.

as far as jay's car you dont know if chevy just slaped a twin turbo set up on a stock motor (wich is what sts did) or if they build the motor for a turbo set up so you really cant compare the 2 togeather
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:51 PM   #6
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I've never seen any video which suggests Leno's car even runs. STS may have gotten good dyno numbers out of their car, but it seems to be pulling an LPE on us.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:35 PM   #7
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I think what hes saying is that the car stock is 312hp and with the sts it raises it to 400 (rear wheel) as to lenos stock v6 modifying it to his twin turbo set up getting 425 an additional 25 hp at the rear wheels with the addition of another turbo installed on the car. I understand what hes saying and for someone that doesn't know much about these systems (including me) I think it can be where the turbos are located (under hood or rear), the size of them, etc... also sts has been working on this for alonggg time now specializing in these, didnt leno have it somewhat done quickly? who knows brother...
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:03 AM   #8
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thanks for the responses. I understand the answers given, by people who understood the post, and one of the people who didnt. What I understand between posts are:

1. Types of HP - Crank v.s. RW HP

I thought that there only one type of hp. The HP being advertised by the STS systems are the probably the rwhp, which is speed after drive train loss, so i am mistaken when I assume that 400 HP is both crank and rwhp. If the rwhp is 400, then the crank hp is upwards about 480.....which is actually pretty cool.

2. STS v.s. TT

Single vs turbo should not be compared as step levels, but as an absolute because their design is based of size. Turbos build energy slow, but a TT, which is a smaller size, is able to build energy quicker than the STS. The STS still can produce more HP than TT, and a bigger boost than the smaller TT can handle.

3. Chevy vs Custom Tune Companies

There is a difference between a custom built from the ground up TT engine, compared to adding TT to an alread built engine. Until one knows how Leno's engine was built, one cannot make a scientific/valid statement. I did in my beliefs that custom tuners are either not doing something right, or they are doing better than what Chevy did; but the two sides were wrong because I did not understand the nature of turbo tunes.

4.Leno and 425.

We do not know if it was dynoes at 425....but again I dont believe he would need to pull numbers out of his arse, but scientifically speaking, I should not and cannot assume he is not lying because he is rich.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:06 PM   #9
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As I recall reading (I may be mistaken), Leno's car ran, but only just barely. It was entirely unreliable and not really drivable, mostly due to the lack of proper ECM tuning. I believe it DID produce the 425 on a dyno, but I'm not entirely certain there either.

As explained before, the difference between a single turbo and twins is more in the reduction of lag. By using 2 smaller, easier to spool turbos instead of one larger turbo, you can achieve the same level of boost faster. The benefit of a single over a twin setup is primarily price, but also in simplicity. More parts = more problems.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:30 PM   #10
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:11 AM   #11
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I've never seen any video which suggests Leno's car even runs. STS may have gotten good dyno numbers out of their car, but it seems to be pulling an LPE on us.
I was going to say the same thing. I searched and searched for videos or anything that indicated that ANYONE actually drove that TT Leno car and could not find it. All of this has been terribly disappointing. I wish someone would just come out and be honest and tell us what the real issues seem to be. If it's the tuning let us know you aren't there yet, if it is that there is no way to reliably squeeze more ponies out of this engine without significant upgrades tell us. A little bit of honest communication would go a long way.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:35 AM   #12
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I was going to say the same thing. I searched and searched for videos or anything that indicated that ANYONE actually drove that TT Leno car and could not find it. All of this has been terribly disappointing. I wish someone would just come out and be honest and tell us what the real issues seem to be. If it's the tuning let us know you aren't there yet, if it is that there is no way to reliably squeeze more ponies out of this engine without significant upgrades tell us. A little bit of honest communication would go a long way.
Completely agree! Just tell us what is going on...

However part of me feels companies may not want to "show their hands" to the public and possibly the competition...

Talked a bit with another industry insider this last weekend... I walked away with a feeling that a reliable FI setup on this engine just may not be in the cards...

Been a month since C5 Fest and no update at all from STS...
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:37 AM   #13
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Going to a shop today. Maybe two. Hopefully I can get some answers. One of them is a STS dealer...
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Completely agree! Just tell us what is going on...

However part of me feels companies may not want to "show their hands" to the public and possibly the competition...

Talked a bit with another industry insider this last weekend... I walked away with a feeling that a reliable FI setup on this engine just may not be in the cards...

Been a month since C5 Fest and no update at all from STS...
Well, nitrous is still on the table but I know how you feel about that this go-around.

That said, there are still a large number of mods out there without track testing. 3.55 gears and the underdrive pulley spring to mind immediately. I can't really vouch for the gears (I'm going back and forth on whether I'll guinea pig that one when I get my car later this summer) but I know for sure that I'll be getting a pulley and finding a belt to fit it if I have to go through every single length belt that O'Reilly's or Autozone sells.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:14 AM   #15
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Completely agree! Just tell us what is going on...



Been a month since C5 Fest and no update at all from STS...
STS is advertising taking orders for 500 hp turbo kit for the V6 Camaro

http://www.ststurbo.com/
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:37 AM   #16
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Going to a shop today. Maybe two. Hopefully I can get some answers. One of them is a STS dealer...
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:37 PM   #17
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:41 PM   #18
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Sorry, created a new thread

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85353

basically, shops don't want to touch the v6 until software is out to tune individual cars. They are leary about trifecta, and would rather tune the cars in their shop rather than sending it away. Although, there is a shop here in Vegas willing to do the trifecta tune for me. Which I'm also told isn't 100% when it comes to an f/I application.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:38 AM   #19
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trifecta? more stuff i need to google and learn
thinkin of takin automotive repair class to be able to work on cars sothis is not an issue any more
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:39 AM   #20
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wiat...trifecta is a company. i just saw it on that link
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:46 AM   #21
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Sorry, created a new thread

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85353

basically, shops don't want to touch the v6 until software is out to tune individual cars. They are leary about trifecta, and would rather tune the cars in their shop rather than sending it away. Although, there is a shop here in Vegas willing to do the trifecta tune for me. Which I'm also told isn't 100% when it comes to an f/I application.
No offense to you at all trust me but that is complete and udder BS. Whoever told you this is full of sh&*. Why you may ask....Trifecta is the one doing the tune for STS! I have talked to both STS and Vince@Trifecta and they both say he is doing the tune. STS was also trying for a TT setup but they backed off once Vince said the tuning seemed to be a little far out there. It is these custom shops who may damage a motor instead of Trifecta. Besides Trifecta is the only company out there right now with a tune for the V6.
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Old 05-27-2010, 07:42 AM   #22
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No offense to you at all trust me but that is complete and udder BS. Whoever told you this is full of sh&*. Why you may ask....Trifecta is the one doing the tune for STS! I have talked to both STS and Vince@Trifecta and they both say he is doing the tune. STS was also trying for a TT setup but they backed off once Vince said the tuning seemed to be a little far out there. It is these custom shops who may damage a motor instead of Trifecta. Besides Trifecta is the only company out there right now with a tune for the V6.
I don't think you understand. I know, and the shops I talk to know that trifecta has a tune for the v6. But it's not the same as a tune, say from hptuner. where the shops get the software to tune on the spot, to account for weather that day on the dyno in your area, fine tuning other aspects as well. Shops know they can send in the specs to trifecta, then get the tune back, but it's not the same. The biggest reason is probably because they've never even heard of Trifecta prior to this tune, and would just rather tune the cars themselves. That I don't know. As I've said, I'd rather have the shop I trust to tune my car. It's almost like having a "middle man" with trifecta.

Also, how is the tune coming along with STS, since you are so confident about it? As far as I know, you can't buy the kit yet, and with no updates, it's safe to assume the hold-up is with the tune...
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Old 05-27-2010, 07:50 AM   #23
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No offense to you at all trust me but that is complete and udder BS. Whoever told you this is full of sh&*. Why you may ask....Trifecta is the one doing the tune for STS! I have talked to both STS and Vince@Trifecta and they both say he is doing the tune. STS was also trying for a TT setup but they backed off once Vince said the tuning seemed to be a little far out there. It is these custom shops who may damage a motor instead of Trifecta. Besides Trifecta is the only company out there right now with a tune for the V6.
i have also talked to vince@trifecta the problem with the sts kit wasnt the tune...the tune is done and ready to go, im trying to do a custom kit because im tired of waighting for all these companys to come out with something, i just gotta sell my bike to get the funds for it
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Old 05-27-2010, 08:19 AM   #24
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i have also talked to vince@trifecta the problem with the sts kit wasnt the tune...the tune is done and ready to go, im trying to do a custom kit because im tired of waighting for all these companys to come out with something, i just gotta sell my bike to get the funds for it
so do you know what the problem is then? if there is one...
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Old 05-27-2010, 08:22 AM   #25
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also, lets say everything is perfect and ready to sell for the STS kit. and lets say I buy this kit, can i then fine tune it for my specific car? because like a lot of things, each car is different from the next. Location/altitude/weather is also a factor.

This would be the first car I would be buying a turbo kit for, so i'm not sure how that would work.
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