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Old 07-12-2008, 11:50 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
For what it's worth the grill is preventing me from placing an order for the car until I see what aftermarket options to fix it are available and at what price.

This car is NOT going to be a "daily driver" for me, and so it's basically going to be a "Toy", which I can live with or make due WITHOUT if I so choose. I already HAVE a Camaro I LOVE (which is paid for) so if I'm going to borrow money for a plaything then I have every right to expect it to be something I actually LIKE. The car has a few UNDERSTANDBALE differences from the concept (gas cap, B-pillars, etc) that I could "live with", but arbitrary and RANDOM cosmetic changes that dramatically alter the look of the car is deal breaker for the time being. I have a right to feel this strongly about it.

IF someone makes an aftermarket fix for any of these last minute mistakes in the design of the car then there's a chance I will reconsider IF the cost is not too high.

I'm not a camaro "traitor" for hating on the fisher-price fascia. Remember, I've still got my 2000 SS... and love it.


Please calm down. You have not seen the final product -- and I believe when you see the final product -- IN PERSON -- you just may feel differently.

-- not saying you'll change your mind -- but in my experience over many years -- most of those who 'hate' something usually change their minds:
1...once they see it in person -- or 2....see it for 90 days or so......
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:57 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
For what it's worth the grill is preventing me from placing an order for the car until I see what aftermarket options to fix it are available and at what price.

This car is NOT going to be a "daily driver" for me, and so it's basically going to be a "Toy", which I can live with or make due WITHOUT if I so choose. I already HAVE a Camaro I LOVE (which is paid for) so if I'm going to borrow money for a plaything then I have every right to expect it to be something I actually LIKE. The car has a few UNDERSTANDBALE differences from the concept (gas cap, B-pillars, etc) that I could "live with", but arbitrary and RANDOM cosmetic changes that dramatically alter the look of the car is deal breaker for the time being. I have a right to feel this strongly about it.

IF someone makes an aftermarket fix for any of these last minute mistakes in the design of the car then there's a chance I will reconsider IF the cost is not too high.

I'm not a camaro "traitor" for hating on the fisher-price fascia. Remember, I've still got my 2000 SS... and love it.
You do have the right to not like something about the car. I prefer the older grill, but I still like the newer one... it does not ruin the car as someone said. It does provide an option or possible option to please different people, which we have proved to exist, in here several times.
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:00 AM   #253
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the car is really looking asom. only one slight problem the big boss apple sauce(my dad) still doesnt like the front grills. and thats what is holding him back from purchesing it. imo i find the car stunning from every view, but in the end its my dad gettin the car not me.
im still keeping the faith but i hope gm has some little tricks under their sleeves with this front grill/head light assembly.

btw does anybody know if the camaro will recive 5k bulbs like in the corvette or will be get the 3.3k bulbs in everyother car? hope we get something like the vette soo when u see those lights u realize ur seeing a high end car
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:11 AM   #254
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Dear Fellow Enthusiasts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Please calm down. You have not seen the final product -- and I believe when you see the final product -- IN PERSON -- you just may feel differently.

-- not saying you'll change your mind -- but in my experience over many years -- most of those who 'hate' something usually change their minds:
1...once they see it in person -- or 2....see it for 90 days or so......
Everyone needs to heed the fbodfather here. He knows what he's saying and is backing it with years of business experience.

I hear your complaints as well. It gets under my skin a little to hear complaints about such a great product. I don't think a concept has transitioned so wholly to production as the 5th generation Camaro. Clearly, I could be wrong, not having seen the final product. Regardless, we have seen the evolution of the Camaro to its current state. Very little has changed.

When you're getting your next car, you're going to see a lot of options on TV, the Web, and the road. You're going to be bombarded with these options, and everything will suddenly appeal to you. Since you're at a pony car website, you're more likely to get a Challenger, Camaro, or Mustang. You may have a slight complaint about the Camaro foglights, but can you tell me honestly that you would rather get a Challenger, a car in a totally different style, than stick to your guns over a minor detail? If that detail is so important, I'm sure you can have a professional shop custom build you a front end that matches the concept. Hardcore Camaro fans may seek extreme modifications that will make the Camaro look more like the concept in the aftermarket. I would not be surprised to see available reverse light transplants in the aftermarket, either. All the things you have been concerned would ruin the car will not ruin the car.

As fbodfather basically said, you'll see it on a lot and love it, or you'll keep seeing it for 90 days and love it. I think everyone, fbodfather included, understands that the car will not meet your exact specifications. We would all love to roll around in cars designed specifically for us, but we are fans of a company that mass produces goodness in the form of Chevrolet automobiles. In this case, the most Chevy can give us is what they've already delivered in the preproduction Camaro. So far, we're all very happy with the basics—V6 power, V8 power, hood, B-pillar, reverse lights, spoiler option, reverse mohawk, air inlet, wheels, rear bumper, GMPP options (as presented in GMPP accessories thread). In all, no other car on the market will compare in all of these characteristics with the Chevrolet Camaro in 2010. Sure, Japanese car lovers won't love it like we do, but we'll have our dream pony cars. Those of you that have your complaints make good points on what you think should be improved. I would like certain things a tad different as well, but I refuse to let halos or reverse lights be a deal breaker for me. As this car looks on paper, there is no way to compare anything on the market to my dream Camaro.
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:11 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Please calm down. You have not seen the final product -- and I believe when you see the final product -- IN PERSON -- you just may feel differently.

-- not saying you'll change your mind -- but in my experience over many years -- most of those who 'hate' something usually change their minds:
1...once they see it in person -- or 2....see it for 90 days or so......
I'm an artist (see avatar for sample of hand drawn colored pencil work) and I know how I am and how my tastes are. My first impressions rarely change.

I'll give it a chance to see it in person and maybe in different colors, but in my mind's eye I can't imagine it looking any better.

That you would encourage me to give it a second chance makes it sound like we're stuck with it, which is depressing.

No offense to those who like it and those who built it. I just think that changing away from the concept shape in this way was a bad idea and it's a safe bet someone could have predicted this would happen.

I can see the meeting: "We have 2 choices. We can make the thing look like the concept, which was very popular, or we can experiment with all kinds of different grills and hope nobody hates it. If we're really lucky we might hit on a grill that even more people love. Should we risk it? In the meantime, everybody brag on how close to the concept the car looks!"
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:17 AM   #256
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Everyone needs to heed the fbodfather here. He knows what he's saying and is backing it with years of business experience.

I hear your complaints as well. It gets under my skin a little to hear complaints about such a great product. I don't think a concept has transitioned so wholly to production as the 5th generation Camaro. Clearly, I could be wrong, not having seen the final product. Regardless, we have seen the evolution of the Camaro to its current state. Very little has changed.
It gets under my skin to see people with legitimate passions and preferences regarding something that they have strong feelings about being trivialized because others don't share their same passions.

If they decided to eliminate the V8 or maybe put in some low output tiny V8 I'm sure a lot of people would complain. Maybe to some people changing the entire look of the front end is (in their mind) just as major as emiminating the V8 option?
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:31 AM   #257
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...I can see the meeting: "We have 2 choices. We can make the thing look like the concept, which was very popular, or we can experiment with all kinds of different grills and hope nobody hates it. If we're really lucky we might hit on a grill that even more people love. Should we risk it? In the meantime, everybody brag on how close to the concept the car looks!"
Dude, get a clue. The base car looks as much like the concept as we could make it. The SS has a more aggressive foglight/airdam area. How many times are you going to post the same complaint anyway? You should read back and see how you sound.
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:38 AM   #258
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But they didn't because they care about style and enthusiasts.
With all due respect, that is complete bullshit. GM is a company and companies care about profits. GM watched Ford make a killing off the new Mustang which had literally no competition. Thus, let's bring the Camaro back. GM could really give two shits what enthusiasts want, in fact....enthusiasts are probably the last people they are trying to satisfy because that is so hard to do. The Camaro is being marketed to a WIDE array of people. Men, women, black, white, young, old etc. etc. If they targeted enthusiasts they would be leaving 90% of the market out.

The old mighty dollar, that's the only thing they care about. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:39 AM   #259
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Captain Awesome id reel it in a few notches... If you dont like something about the car you could always adjust with aftermarket products...

no need to damn the world around you because you dont like something.

and this isnt a personal attack or anything, but your crossing the line from freedom of speach into verbal harrassment
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:39 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
It gets under my skin to see people with legitimate passions and preferences regarding something that they have strong feelings about being trivialized because others don't share their same passions.

If they decided to eliminate the V8 or maybe put in some low output tiny V8 I'm sure a lot of people would complain. Maybe to some people changing the entire look of the front end is (in their mind) just as major as emiminating the V8 option?
Don't get me wrong. I don't mean to trivialize anyone. I, too, have things that I would love changed in preproduction. I'm just taking a comparative approach. If the Camaro had a different interior, for example, I would be devastated because I fell in love with the concept interior. However, the Mustang doesn't have the Camaro interior, so that won't help, and neither would buying a Challenger.

I'm just trying to say that we all fell in love with the whole car—some parts more than others for a lot of us. Because of that, we all have different concerns about the car. I'm very confident that there will be a raging aftermarket for the new Camaro, so I would expect many of our concerns to be addressed by the aftermarket if GM doesn't make it the way you want it. I don't think that trivializes anyone. I just think that most concerns are very changeable.

As far as I know, these are the biggest concerns that the aftermarket will fix:

• headlights
• tail lights
• reverse lights (holes can be filled, lights can be transplanted elsewhere)
• grill
• front bumper & fog light placement (body kits will be plentiful)
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:50 AM   #261
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I just cant wait until we get the official pictures..... Is it the end of july yet??

I have loved this car from the very first moment i saw it. I just wonder if they know the rules and regulations of what a car needs to be, why build a concept that has features that wont qualify?

In no way was that a mean statement at all, i dont want to offend anyone, i am just curious.

I still love the car, I will still buy one. I am just crossing my fingers that i will beable to change the lower grill if the production one isnt better. I mean the whole car is beautiful, and then i look at that and just totally get turned off. I find myself looking at new pictures and taking my hand and covering up the bottom grill.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:21 AM   #262
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WoW I am feeling so confident about this car. Absolutely Amazing. Just cant wait till the 22nd
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:28 AM   #263
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With all due respect, that is complete bullshit. GM is a company and companies care about profits. GM watched Ford make a killing off the new Mustang which had literally no competition. Thus, let's bring the Camaro back. GM could really give two shits what enthusiasts want, in fact....enthusiasts are probably the last people they are trying to satisfy because that is so hard to do. The Camaro is being marketed to a WIDE array of people. Men, women, black, white, young, old etc. etc. If they targeted enthusiasts they would be leaving 90% of the market out.

The old mighty dollar, that's the only thing they care about. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
GM is not a charity, here to donate cars to enthusiasts... you are right$$$
They do care about enthusuasts, because enthusiasts are like free advertising and probably buy cars more often than someone who JUST wants to go from point A to B.
Keep your $#!+ civil.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:30 AM   #264
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Captain Awesome id reel it in a few notches... If you dont like something about the car you could always adjust with aftermarket products...

no need to damn the world around you because you dont like something.

and this isnt a personal attack or anything, but your crossing the line from freedom of speach into verbal harrassment

And it is not like they put an Edsel front end on it.....
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:31 AM   #265
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Don't like it. Another reason why I will never buy the first run from GM. They probably hear us, but its too damn late again, so our changes will come in the second run. And that's the SS model. C'mon.

I think someone is playing a huge joke on the world, and they're going to drop a hammer on us with something better than what we've been allowed to see. If GM is as secret as 'the Army of Virginia', then this is dead on. My brand pride doesn't allow me to believe that the General will allow this car to come out like this. We'll see.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:52 AM   #266
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Dude, get a clue. The base car looks as much like the concept as we could make it. The SS has a more aggressive foglight/airdam area. How many times are you going to post the same complaint anyway? You should read back and see how you sound.



We all knew it (the V8&SS) had to differentiate itself somehow. Unfortunately you cant please everyone and some will like the changes and some wont. If something wasn't different about it then even more people would be complaining and saying at this point, "why does the SS look just like the V6?!?!"

Sort of lose lose no matter what they did.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:58 AM   #267
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We all knew it (the V8&SS) had to differentiate itself somehow. Unfortunately you cant please everyone and some will like the changes and some wont. If something wasn't different about it then even more people would be complaining and saying at this point, "why does the SS look just like the V6?!?!"

Sort of lose lose no matter what they did.
Way to jump in... welcome to the circus....
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:01 AM   #268
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Don't like it. Another reason why I will never buy the first run from GM. They probably hear us, but its too damn late again, so our changes will come in the second run. And that's the SS model. C'mon.

I think someone is playing a huge joke on the world, and they're going to drop a hammer on us with something better than what we've been allowed to see. If GM is as secret as 'the Army of Virginia', then this is dead on. My brand pride doesn't allow me to believe that the General will allow this car to come out like this. We'll see.
Just because some people don't like doesn't mean that those of us who absolutely love the changes don't matter.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:03 AM   #269
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With all due respect, that is complete bullshit. GM is a company and companies care about profits. GM watched Ford make a killing off the new Mustang which had literally no competition. Thus, let's bring the Camaro back. GM could really give two shits what enthusiasts want, in fact....enthusiasts are probably the last people they are trying to satisfy because that is so hard to do. The Camaro is being marketed to a WIDE array of people. Men, women, black, white, young, old etc. etc. If they targeted enthusiasts they would be leaving 90% of the market out.

The old mighty dollar, that's the only thing they care about. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Bullshit, my @ss...

Of course they care about enthusiasts. And yes, they care about profit!...I'll absolutely disagree AND agree with you there. Now...

GM does care what enthusiasts think.....because they are the ones that ARE Camaro. We are the people that have a love for everday driving and love our machines. The general public might not care about this or that. BUT, enthusiasts help to shape the Camaro for the general public....to make it more appealing with the options that everyone wants.

What I mean is this....GM took 15 people (enthusiasts) to Detroit to see their thoughts on how the camaro was progressing and asked THEM what they could do to better the concept to production model. An emphasis was also put on everyday driving for everyday drivers....those men, women, younger crowd, etc...who would be buying the car. GM DOES want to market it to everyone. Which is why everyone won't be happy.....but they are doing the best they can.

If GM didn't care about enthusiasts, they wouldn't have people like us addicted to the computer and this site. They wouldn't have umpteen sites dedicated to Camaros.... They wouldn't have Fbodfather posting daily on them. Scott is an enthusiast too. Look how many fbodies he's owned....and who does he work for? Granted, GM isn't going to add a specific hood just for a small group of people. Now, they would add that hood if EVERYONE wanted one...and hated the other one.

GM does have to do what is most profitable for them. YES. But, they do care about us. If they go and screw up so many things, part of their largest free advertisment....US....won't be there. MY opinion....they care a great deal about us.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:05 AM   #270
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Interesting comments but lets get real

Well I sucked it up and read every single post in this thread. I am kinda amazed as to the strong opinions that some of you have and the way that you feel betrayed if your personal preference is not reflected in the final design. While I am not a auto engineer I do understand some of the compromises that must be made for the sake of durability, performance and cost. I have owned many cars over my life and never owned one that did not have something about it that I did not care for. I will buy the 5th gen Camaro and will enjoy it regardless of how big or small the air dam is or where the backup lights are. I am sure that the final design decisions are made and I think the design team has done an excellent job to this point. I am sure that there will be small things that I don't care for but come on. Can anyone name a perfect car? If you can I am sure that there are many that would see your preferences as defects. This is why the aftermarket exists and thrives.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:09 AM   #271
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Well I sucked it up and read every single post in this thread. I am kinda amazed as to the strong opinions that some of you have and the way that you feel betrayed if your personal preference is not reflected in the final design. While I am not a auto engineer I do understand some of the compromises that must be made for the sake of durability, performance and cost. I have owned many cars over my life and never owned one that did not have something about it that I did not care for. I will buy the 5th gen Camaro and will enjoy it regardless of how big or small the air dam is or where the backup lights are. I am sure that the final design decisions are made and I think the design team has done an excellent job to this point. I am sure that there will be small things that I don't care for but come on. Can anyone name a perfect car? If you can I am sure that there are many that would see your preferences as defects. This is why the aftermarket exists and thrives.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:23 AM   #272
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Well I sucked it up and read every single post in this thread. I am kinda amazed as to the strong opinions that some of you have and the way that you feel betrayed if your personal preference is not reflected in the final design. While I am not a auto engineer I do understand some of the compromises that must be made for the sake of durability, performance and cost. I have owned many cars over my life and never owned one that did not have something about it that I did not care for. I will buy the 5th gen Camaro and will enjoy it regardless of how big or small the air dam is or where the backup lights are. I am sure that the final design decisions are made and I think the design team has done an excellent job to this point. I am sure that there will be small things that I don't care for but come on. Can anyone name a perfect car? If you can I am sure that there are many that would see your preferences as defects. This is why the aftermarket exists and thrives.
Realistic? in here? 8 posts?
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:46 AM   #273
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I....what?!?! This is what I'm talking about, right here (^)
Why can we not like it? Why can you not accept that we like it? And why, (this is the important question) because we like it, does our input have less value than those who agree with you and do not?

We Like It!!! Arghhh
Maybe he/she is a “Super Delegate”
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:51 AM   #274
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Bullshit, my @ss...

Of course they care about enthusiasts. And yes, they care about profit!...I'll absolutely disagree AND agree with you there. Now...

GM does care what enthusiasts think.....because they are the ones that ARE Camaro. We are the people that have a love for everday driving and love our machines. The general public might not care about this or that. BUT, enthusiasts help to shape the Camaro for the general public....to make it more appealing with the options that everyone wants.

What I mean is this....GM took 15 people (enthusiasts) to Detroit to see their thoughts on how the camaro was progressing and asked THEM what they could do to better the concept to production model. An emphasis was also put on everyday driving for everyday drivers....those men, women, younger crowd, etc...who would be buying the car. GM DOES want to market it to everyone. Which is why everyone won't be happy.....but they are doing the best they can.

If GM didn't care about enthusiasts, they wouldn't have people like us addicted to the computer and this site. They wouldn't have umpteen sites dedicated to Camaros.... They wouldn't have Fbodfather posting daily on them. Scott is an enthusiast too. Look how many fbodies he's owned....and who does he work for? Granted, GM isn't going to add a specific hood just for a small group of people. Now, they would add that hood if EVERYONE wanted one...and hated the other one.

GM does have to do what is most profitable for them. YES. But, they do care about us. If they go and screw up so many things, part of their largest free advertisment....US....won't be there. MY opinion....they care a great deal about us.
Well put…

Slowly wipes tear from left eye and starts to clap…
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:51 AM   #275
chadrcr
to Z or not to Z
 
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Drives: 99 S10 ZR2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fallon NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER74Z28 View Post
Maybe he/she is a “Super Delegate”
I think there ARE a couple of those on here
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99 S-10 ZR2
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getting ready for my Camaro
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