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Old 11-06-2009, 07:12 AM   #1
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Anyone Remember the EV1

Saw an interesting show on the green network , ( Who Killed the Electric Car) was wondering how many others saw it ?



GM why did you abandon the EV1 seems there was quite a bit of interest in it , and I wonder how much of the tech. from the EV1 is going into the Volt , why start from scratch GM , why didn't you keep developing the EV1 ? Seems like such a waste of time , money and materials to just scrap all of those cars hope that kind of waste is all behind them now
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:36 AM   #2
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over half of the Gen I EV1s were recalled due to a potential fire hazard during charging.
plus the cost of production, upkeep, and parts/storage came into effect as well. it was a cool idea for those who drive less than 100 miles between charges, but having a built in generator (the Volt) opens the door for much longer travel... if you so wished.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:45 AM   #3
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It cost more to maintain the cars than was economically feasible. Not to mention the limited range and impracticality of only two seats.

Volt is light-years ahead of the EV1's technology anyways.

And who said GM started from scratch? The Volt incorporates many of the lessons learned from the EV1 program, just vastly improved.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:49 AM   #4
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over half of the Gen I EV1s were recalled due to a potential fire hazard during charging.
plus the cost of production, upkeep, and parts/storage came into effect as well. it was a cool idea for those who drive less than 100 miles between charges, but having a built in generator (the Volt) opens the door for much longer travel... if you so wished.
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It cost more to maintain the cars than was economically feasible. Not to mention the limited range and impracticality of only two seats.

Volt is light-years ahead of the EV1's technology anyways.

And who said GM started from scratch? The Volt incorporates many of the lessons learned from the EV1 program, just vastly improved.
Why crush them though , they had an offer of over a million for the 78 that were left , seems like such a waste
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:57 AM   #5
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Why crush them though , they had an offer of over a million for the 78 that were left , seems like such a waste
The same reason GM can't sell IVER cars to the public and has to crush them. Liability.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:06 AM   #6
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The same reason GM can't sell IVER cars to the public and has to crush them. Liability.
These cars were leased to the public , they could have sold them but they chose to collect them and crush them , instead of letting the ppl that leased them purchase them seems funny to me
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:20 AM   #7
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These cars were leased to the public , they could have sold them but they chose to collect them and crush them , instead of letting the ppl that leased them purchase them seems funny to me
Okay, think about this for a second.

GM allows you to have one of the EV1s.

Something breaks down in it.

You head to AutoZone and ask for the part. The guy at the counter gives you a weird look and says he's never heard of it before.

You go to your dealership and ask for the part. The service writer says he's not sure what part you're looking for, then looks at your car and says he's never had one of these in for service ever, and the only places trained to service this vehicle were where they were leased.

You end up calling a parts supplier who supplied parts for the EV1 and ask for the part, and they tell you that due to a lack of parts demand and the limited production for the EV1, nobody makes parts anymore.

Or...

GM allows you to own an EV1.

Some electrical problems occur and your car catches on fire.

You sue GM for selling you a car that caught on fire.

Trust me, there were very valid reasons for crushing the EV1s. The technology was still largely unproven during that time, and GM wasn't sure whether or not it would hold up after time. If something failed and an injury or death resulted, GM would be in a LOT of trouble.

Take for example the Equinox Fuel Cell vehicles built by GM. There are plenty of people driving those around...but they will be collected and crushed by GM once they're done with the program. It doesn't matter how many people whine and moan about it, GM can't take that kind of risk, because again, if something goes wrong, GM will take the fall for it.

The reason it seems funny to you is because that's what the movie was intended to do, make people question why GM would do such a thing. The movie is basically a huge conspiracy theory to get people to think GM was trying to steer people away from electric cars and into trucks and SUVs. The problem is, it doesn't present all the facts regarding the program. All it tells you is that GM had built an electric car, but then decided to screw it and crushed them all. It doesn't tell you any rationale behind the decision.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Okay, think about this for a second.

GM allows you to have one of the EV1s.

Something breaks down in it.

You head to AutoZone and ask for the part. The guy at the counter gives you a weird look and says he's never heard of it before.

You go to your dealership and ask for the part. The service writer says he's not sure what part you're looking for, then looks at your car and says he's never had one of these in for service ever, and the only places trained to service this vehicle were where they were leased.

You end up calling a parts supplier who supplied parts for the EV1 and ask for the part, and they tell you that due to a lack of parts demand and the limited production for the EV1, nobody makes parts anymore.

Or...

GM allows you to own an EV1.

Some electrical problems occur and your car catches on fire.

You sue GM for selling you a car that caught on fire.

Trust me, there were very valid reasons for crushing the EV1s. The technology was still largely unproven during that time, and GM wasn't sure whether or not it would hold up after time. If something failed and an injury or death resulted, GM would be in a LOT of trouble.

Take for example the Equinox Fuel Cell vehicles built by GM. There are plenty of people driving those around...but they will be collected and crushed by GM once they're done with the program. It doesn't matter how many people whine and moan about it, GM can't take that kind of risk, because again, if something goes wrong, GM will take the fall for it.

The reason it seems funny to you is because that's what the movie was intended to do, make people question why GM would do such a thing. The movie is basically a huge conspiracy theory to get people to think GM was trying to steer people away from electric cars and into trucks and SUVs. The problem is, it doesn't present all the facts regarding the program. All it tells you is that GM had built an electric car, but then decided to screw it and crushed them all. It doesn't tell you any rationale behind the decision.
well when you put it that way , makes sense , damn I wish I had a brain
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:46 AM   #9
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These cars were leased to the public , they could have sold them but they chose to collect them and crush them , instead of letting the ppl that leased them purchase them seems funny to me
well, part of the CARB certification process includes stocking parts for vehicles for no less than 15 years. the few that didnt get crushed were sent to museums and schools for educational purposes with certain drive train components removed so they could no longer be driveable. in fact GM got into a lawsuit against one group who restored an EV1 and drove it down the road as it was a breach of contract.

with a car that the first gen only had about 800 or so vehicles over a few years and the second gen had less than that, it doesnt make sense for GM to keep them alive. cus then they are a liability. if someone goes and drives one, something breaks, that person wants the part and its been less than 15 years, gm can be sued for not stocking a part for a production vehicle.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:00 AM   #10
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well, part of the CARB certification process includes stocking parts for vehicles for no less than 15 years. the few that didnt get crushed were sent to museums and schools for educational purposes with certain drive train components removed so they could no longer be driveable. in fact GM got into a lawsuit against one group who restored an EV1 and drove it down the road as it was a breach of contract.

with a car that the first gen only had about 800 or so vehicles over a few years and the second gen had less than that, it doesnt make sense for GM to keep them alive. cus then they are a liability. if someone goes and drives one, something breaks, that person wants the part and its been less than 15 years, gm can be sued for not stocking a part for a production vehicle.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:21 AM   #11
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Thanks Fen! As always you covered everything I was thinking (and more!).

Don 't think that they started from scratch on the Volt...there are always people working on thing behind the scenes that no one hears about...EV1 technology was a building block.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Okay, think about this for a second.

GM allows you to have one of the EV1s.

Something breaks down in it.

You head to AutoZone and ask for the part. The guy at the counter gives you a weird look and says he's never heard of it before.

You go to your dealership and ask for the part. The service writer says he's not sure what part you're looking for, then looks at your car and says he's never had one of these in for service ever, and the only places trained to service this vehicle were where they were leased.

You end up calling a parts supplier who supplied parts for the EV1 and ask for the part, and they tell you that due to a lack of parts demand and the limited production for the EV1, nobody makes parts anymore.

Or...

GM allows you to own an EV1.

Some electrical problems occur and your car catches on fire.

You sue GM for selling you a car that caught on fire.

Trust me, there were very valid reasons for crushing the EV1s. The technology was still largely unproven during that time, and GM wasn't sure whether or not it would hold up after time. If something failed and an injury or death resulted, GM would be in a LOT of trouble.

Take for example the Equinox Fuel Cell vehicles built by GM. There are plenty of people driving those around...but they will be collected and crushed by GM once they're done with the program. It doesn't matter how many people whine and moan about it, GM can't take that kind of risk, because again, if something goes wrong, GM will take the fall for it.

The reason it seems funny to you is because that's what the movie was intended to do, make people question why GM would do such a thing. The movie is basically a huge conspiracy theory to get people to think GM was trying to steer people away from electric cars and into trucks and SUVs. The problem is, it doesn't present all the facts regarding the program. All it tells you is that GM had built an electric car, but then decided to screw it and crushed them all. It doesn't tell you any rationale behind the decision.
This is 100% correct, couldn't say it any better.
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Old 11-09-2009, 01:53 AM   #13
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Consider the Volt to be the EV2.
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:34 AM   #14
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Consider the Volt to be the EV2.
I dont. I consider the Volt to be... the Volt. some similar things in it, but the capabilities of the volt are too profound to be considered "the next version"

thats like thinking the Camaro was the Monza II. (oh wait... it kinda was. lol)

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Old 11-09-2009, 09:24 AM   #15
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I dont. I consider the Volt to be... the Volt. some similar things in it, but the capabilities of the volt are too profound to be considered "the next version"

thats like thinking the Camaro was the Monza II.(oh wait... it kinda was. lol)

The EV1 was initially intended to be more like the Volt. It was supposed to have a gasoline powered generator, but California mandated that X number of cars need to be purely electric, so they scraped the idea. Plus many of the team members for the Volt were also on the EV1 project.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:28 AM   #16
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That movie is one of the most worthless pieces of film in history...second only to "the Village"...

It amazes me that they did not cover the reasons for scrapping the program...It was a useless car, a two-seater with virtually zero cargo space. It cost an arm and a leg, had very poor range, and took forever to charge. This tended to repel buyers. On top of that, it was high-cost, zero-profit, high-maintinance, and because of the above, had limited-interest on the part of buyers. It was a car way ahead of its time, sadly.

Was it a great step forward? Hell yes! They were teh FIRST people to do an electric automobile, and it was leaps ahead of the Prius in terms of technology, well before that pos came to market.

Did GM just dump all they learned from that program? Hell NO! There's a reason why only they have the ability to pull a Volt out of thin air in 3 years time. Ford couldn't do it, Toyota couldn't do it, and they even issued statements of doubt and scepticism about the project...GM has the experience, knowledge, and professionals left over from the EV1 program to make the Volt possible...yet today, they have the added benefit of beautiful design abilities to make it appealing.

/rant....I really hate that film.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:07 AM   #17
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The EV1 was initially intended to be more like the Volt. It was supposed to have a gasoline powered generator, but California mandated that X number of cars need to be purely electric, so they scraped the idea. Plus many of the team members for the Volt were also on the EV1 project.
California can be scrapped with the EV1.... lmao

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That movie is one of the most worthless pieces of film in history...second only to "the Village"...

It amazes me that they did not cover the reasons for scrapping the program...It was a useless car, a two-seater with virtually zero cargo space. It cost an arm and a leg, had very poor range, and took forever to charge. This tended to repel buyers. On top of that, it was high-cost, zero-profit, high-maintinance, and because of the above, had limited-interest on the part of buyers. It was a car way ahead of its time, sadly.

Was it a great step forward? Hell yes! They were teh FIRST people to do an electric automobile, and it was leaps ahead of the Prius in terms of technology, well before that pos came to market.

Did GM just dump all they learned from that program? Hell NO! There's a reason why only they have the ability to pull a Volt out of thin air in 3 years time. Ford couldn't do it, Toyota couldn't do it, and they even issued statements of doubt and scepticism about the project...GM has the experience, knowledge, and professionals left over from the EV1 program to make the Volt possible...yet today, they have the added benefit of beautiful design abilities to make it appealing.

/rant....I really hate that film.

pot stirring time... what about the new Honda that is estimating 300+mpg based on the same technology the volt uses?
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:09 AM   #18
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Honda also told everyone the Insight would hit 100+ MPG.

Now it's a sales flop.

I'm not expecting much out of Honda.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:29 AM   #19
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Honda also told everyone the Insight would hit 100+ MPG.

Now it's a sales flop.

I'm not expecting much out of Honda.

dont count them out too much. ever notice how auto companies bring out similar vehicles right around the same time... no one has a completely unique design/technology anymore. sure parts are very different, but overall, its very similar
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:19 AM   #20
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So I just attended a FD class 16 hrs on Hybrids from a master tech that debunk a ton of false info.http://www.mgstech.net/index.html

Long and short GM did drop the ball with the EV1 had GM developed this tech further they would have been hands down the industry leader. Now as I understand it when the Volts hits the market it will already be dated and the Nissan Leaf will be the next gen hybrid.
As it stand there are two type of true Hybrid technology exist Honda's and Toyota's
1) Honda's is very inexpensive and easy to build, but not as efficient.

2) Toyota is the industry leader and 90% of the car manufactures pay royalties to them. Such as Ford, Nissan, etc.

I'm not a expert, but spent allot of time talking with the instructor after class and he knows his S. He maybe a little bias toward hybrid, but did shoot me the strait poop on the were the market is going. The Volt battery will be it's weak point due to charge cycle life. The Volt is more of a true electric and uses the engine as a charger, but runs off the battery. If the battery life expires then it only has the ability to limp home. The Toyota battery does not care if it's has a full charge or not ( its always in a state of flux) and if it goes bad the car will still function and just become less efficient. Even if the battery does need changing he said it's about $2500 with parts and labor. He said some of the first gen Toyota had some issues, but the second gen and third gen will do 400K plus with no issue.
With all this said I'm still looking forward to the Volt, but the instructor did bring up food for thought. The EV1 technology was proven and just needed to be refined back in 1995 Toyota took this idea and developed it, marketed it, and now GM has to play catch-up that's the real shame in all of this.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:35 AM   #21
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That movie is one of the most worthless pieces of film in history...second only to "the Village"...

It amazes me that they did not cover the reasons for scrapping the program...It was a useless car, a two-seater with virtually zero cargo space. It cost an arm and a leg, had very poor range, and took forever to charge. This tended to repel buyers. On top of that, it was high-cost, zero-profit, high-maintinance, and because of the above, had limited-interest on the part of buyers. It was a car way ahead of its time, sadly.

Was it a great step forward? Hell yes! They were teh FIRST people to do an electric automobile, and it was leaps ahead of the Prius in terms of technology, well before that pos came to market.

Did GM just dump all they learned from that program? Hell NO! There's a reason why only they have the ability to pull a Volt out of thin air in 3 years time. Ford couldn't do it, Toyota couldn't do it, and they even issued statements of doubt and scepticism about the project...GM has the experience, knowledge, and professionals left over from the EV1 program to make the Volt possible...yet today, they have the added benefit of beautiful design abilities to make it appealing.

/rant....I really hate that film.
Electric cars were around before GM even existed
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:44 AM   #22
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pot stirring time... what about the new Honda that is estimating 300+mpg based on the same technology the volt uses?
If I remember correctly, that vehicle is not a Volt-style car...it has a limited range due to charge; it's more akin to the original EV1...I may be wrong, however.

On a side note, with Honda's failure of an Insight...I don't expect anything spectacular out of them in this dept. Plus, I believe their car is substantially smaller than the Volt...I think.

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Electric cars were around before GM even existed
True -- but they were the first to bring it to mass production and available for everyone in a contemporary application.

I don't defend them for scrapping it...if they hadn't, the Prius would have never taken root, and Toyota wouldn't be where they are today. What can I say other than hindsight is 20/20. The Volt is lightyears ahead of both of them (as it's not a hybrid), and only time will tell if they can recapture what they left behind with the suspension of the EV1 program. BUT -- there were reasons for scrapping the car that made sense, and were not covered in that excuse for a documentary...and that's the only reason I posted.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:51 AM   #23
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I'd like to have an EV1 with a twin turbo V6.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:58 AM   #24
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So I just attended a FD class 16 hrs on Hybrids from a master tech that debunk a ton of false info.http://www.mgstech.net/index.html

Long and short GM did drop the ball with the EV1 had GM developed this tech further they would have been hands down the industry leader. Now as I understand it when the Volts hits the market it will already be dated and the Nissan Leaf will be the next gen hybrid.
As it stand there are two type of true Hybrid technology exist Honda's and Toyota's
1) Honda's is very inexpensive and easy to build, but not as efficient.

2) Toyota is the industry leader and 90% of the car manufactures pay royalties to them. Such as Ford, Nissan, etc.

I'm not a expert, but spent allot of time talking with the instructor after class and he knows his S. He maybe a little bias toward hybrid, but did shoot me the strait poop on the were the market is going. The Volt battery will it's weak point due to charge cycle life. The Volt is more of a true electric and uses the engine as a charger, but runs off the battery. If the battery life expires then it only has the ability to limp home. The Toyota battery does not care if it's has a full charge or not ( its always in a state of flux) and if it goes bad the car will still function and just become less efficient. Even if the battery does need changing he said it's about $2500 with parts and labor. He said some of the first gen Toyota had some issues, but the second gen and third gen will do 400K plus with no issue.
With all this said I'm still looking forward to the Volt, but the instructor did bring up food for thought. The EV1 technology was proven and just needed to be refined back in 1995 Toyota took this idea and developed it, marketed it, and now GM has to play catch-up that's the real shame in all of this.
I would consider the number of mass produced hybrid systems to be 4. Honda, Toyota, Ford, Two-Mode (GM, Daimler, BMW...). Ford and Toyota's system are extremely similar but were developed independently. They had a cross licensing agreement because each needed patents from the other but no money was exchanged. The new Fusion Hybrid does not use any patents held by Toyota and I think the new Prius does not use any Ford patents. The Nissan Altima hybrid is straight from a Camry Hybrid.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:06 PM   #25
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I'd like to have an EV1 with a twin turbo V6.
Wouldn't it be called a TTV6 then?
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