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Old 11-17-2009, 01:22 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by DropTheGloves View Post
You need to do a little more reading/research pumpkin. If you actually read what I had to write about, is that the caprice, may be coming as a cop car, but will not be released to the public. Hence certain underlining...
Your arguing semantics, fact is the car is coming just not the way you want it to, pookie.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:37 PM   #52
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thats good that they might be bringing out a TTV6 camaro just dont put a Z/28 badge on it.
please name it someting else.....leave the LSA for the Z
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:08 PM   #53
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please name it someting else.....leave the LSA for the Z
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:10 PM   #54
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Twin turbo V6 . This will probably add another, what - 5-7K? You will then have a V6 Camaro that is roughly on par with the V8 for the same price.
It wouldn't get a good 0-60 time compared to the SS considering the turbo needs time to spool up. IMO, I don't think it would be a good move for GM to make two trim levels that would have similar performance numbers.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:12 PM   #55
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I don't understand why everyone thinks the Z28 has to be more powerful than the SS. The Z28 has never been more powerfull than the SS. The old aluminum DZ302 motors were lighter, and the cars had better handling/braking than the SS for road racing. They were never more powerful than the SS's.

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.

The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties.

I think they should offer the TT V6 with upgraded suspension/brakes like the old Z28, as a Z28, and make an even more powerful SS, maybe LSA, or LS7.

Just my 2 cents, but you know I'm right.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:15 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by PUNCH IT View Post
I don't understand why everyone thinks the Z28 has to be more powerful than the SS. The Z28 has never been more powerfull than the SS. The old aluminum DZ302 motors were lighter, and the cars had better handling/braking than the SS for road racing. They were never more powerful than the SS's.

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.

The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties.

I think they should offer the TT V6 with upgraded suspension/brakes like the old Z28, as a Z28, and make an even more powerful SS, maybe LSA, or LS7.

Just my 2 cents, but you know I'm right.
In reality the motor you speak of was heavily under rated and dyno'd around 400HP, so it was actually more powerful than the SS.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:15 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by PUNCH IT View Post

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.
You should be just as pissed at the Zxx moniker:

Z24 Cavaliers
Z26 Berettas
Z34 Luminas

At least the Cobalt and HHR were fast.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by PUNCH IT View Post
The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties

How do you figure it would be lighter than the SS?
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:17 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by PUNCH IT View Post
I don't understand why everyone thinks the Z28 has to be more powerful than the SS. The Z28 has never been more powerfull than the SS. The old aluminum DZ302 motors were lighter, and the cars had better handling/braking than the SS for road racing. They were never more powerful than the SS's.

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.

The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties.

I think they should offer the TT V6 with upgraded suspension/brakes like the old Z28, as a Z28, and make an even more powerful SS, maybe LSA, or LS7.

Just my 2 cents, but you know I'm right.

DZ302 motors were never aluminium but that aside - thank you for your rational thought regarding this cars viability.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:22 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by PUNCH IT View Post
I don't understand why everyone thinks the Z28 has to be more powerful than the SS. The Z28 has never been more powerfull than the SS. The old aluminum DZ302 motors were lighter, and the cars had better handling/braking than the SS for road racing. They were never more powerful than the SS's.

I for one am pissed that GM painted themselves into a corner by using the SS badge on everything from trucks to HHR's and cobalts, so that now they have to resurect Z28 as an upgraded model to the SS.

The TTv6 would make a perfect Z28 because it would be almost as powerful as a V8, but it would be lighter and quicker in the twisties.

I think they should offer the TT V6 with upgraded suspension/brakes like the old Z28, as a Z28, and make an even more powerful SS, maybe LSA, or LS7.

Just my 2 cents, but you know I'm right.
WHERE IS THE WEIGHT SAVINGS?! Arg! Yeah - you can TT a V6 and make more power than LSA and LS7, but is it going to meet NVH requirements; is it going to pass smog; is it really going to be as fuel efficient as SS? I don't know about the last statement either...
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:29 PM   #61
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It wouldn't get a good 0-60 time compared to the SS considering the turbo needs time to spool up. IMO, .

umm
the LAST turbo motor GM made spooled up very quick , TQ peaks quicker than the LS3
EDIT dang thats a big pic !
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:30 PM   #62
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Your right, I goofed on the 302 being aluminum. Doh! But it was still lighter for road racing while still retaining good power.

The Z28 can be lighter, with suspension/brake upgrades, but it can't be more powerful than the SS.

It just can't.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:37 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
WHERE IS THE WEIGHT SAVINGS?!
I keep asking the same thing....
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by PUNCH IT View Post
Your right, I goofed on the 302 being aluminum. Doh! But it was still lighter for road racing while still retaining good power.

The Z28 can be lighter, with suspension/brake upgrades, but it can't be more powerful than the SS.

It just can't.
It was. Again research it for yourself, the motor dyno'd around 400 HP making it more powerful than even the SS's 396.

And @matt55, that one peaked quicker to less torque.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:45 PM   #65
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People asking for a 3200 lb 2012 Camaro are going to be extremely disappointed unless this thing is built off of a Geo Prizm or something.

Get over it - it will be at least as heavy as the SS or more. Unless you want to remove airbags, side impact beams, roof structuring, hell - in the Camaro's case the ENTIRE rear quarter panel (which makes the car IMO). No seats? No dash? No A/C in a "modern sports coupe"? How about the 21 inch rims everyone is obsessed with? Can we keep those?

end rant.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:48 PM   #66
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People asking for a 3200 lb 2012 Camaro are going to be extremely disappointed


3200 lb Camaro..... The Grand sport comes in at 3340
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:59 PM   #67
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.

And @matt55, that one peaked quicker to less torque.

point was spool , not 248WTQ from a 122ci motor
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:03 PM   #68
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point was spool , not 248WTQ from a 122ci motor
Either way... The LS3 wouldn't have to spool anything. If they are at similar HP numbers, it would either be a little worse or about even.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:18 PM   #69
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67-69 camaro 302's produced 290 HP.

http://wiki.gmnext.com/wiki/index.ph...evrolet_Camaro

http://ss396.com/1969/Camaro/parts/1969_Camaro.htm
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:27 PM   #70
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First of all the Z/28 was more powerful than the SS, the SS with the 396 put around 350hp give or take, the Z/28 was rated at 290...rated...but that was just to get an advantage in the Trans Am series, the engines really put out a number closer to 420, so yes the Z/28 was more powerful and it had more aggressive gearing (wikipedia, video games, magazines, and anything else "official" will say 290hp just because that was GM's final word on the matter, that doesnt mean its true and it very much wasnt, the dynos were and still are closer to 420)

Anyways in response to this thread, may i be the first to smack my forehead...if you can already buy a 425hp Camaro what the hell is all the hype about a new one, lol, so what its a turbo V6 the V8 does that with not a damn thing attatched and thats where the bragging rights go, lol, and besides there wont be much weight savings, the V6 isnt THAT much lighter than the V8 and even then all the turbo stuff will even it out plus there'll still lower torque, the V6 is the economy car, not the performance car, stop trying to make it the performance car and all you tuners stop whining about it, this is a CAMARO not a friggin Civic, go rice out your 92' import-mobile...and if they do make a twin turbo V6 it better be the base engine for LT models (like Ford's doing with the Mustang) and that V8 better get the same 100hp boost, otherwise im totally not feeling the hype...plus the Z/28 needs to be the performance forerunner of the group, skim down all the luxury items (back seats stay, sorry guys this isnt a corvette its still a pony car) the most i'll let slide is leather, sunroof, and Bose radio, other than that throw all the other dumb accessories out cause they're making these cars cost too much as it is and its just the really retarted picky people who want them, us who are still into muscle cars and not luxury/muscle cars can handle having to put our key in the column and twist to start the engine...i know its a stretch, i know, but trust me, it does in fact work...

LOL...*end rant*
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:48 PM   #71
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Although it has been used before, Z/26 ?
The absolute cost of manufacturing a new vehicle to be limited only to police depts? DropTheDebbie.
Z26 wasn't a camaro. if I'm not mistaken it was a beretta.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:29 PM   #72
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I agree with Vega, however regarding the source in this post, let me just say that GM also rated LS1s in F-bodies at from 305 and 310 in Z28s, and those were known, and proven to make near as much power as Corvette LS1s. I never dyno'd my '02 before adding mid-lengths, but it's common to have seen about 15 RWHP with them, and with the OEM tune, catback, and lid, my car put down a crappy 334 RWHP. My brother's car, with a lid and same catback put down 327. With the lid and catback being no more than 20 RWHP, combined, these cars were making the same power at the wheels as they were rated by GM. I'm using these points to illustrate GM's had a history of underrating cars and engines in the past. It is widely accepted DZs made more than the advertised rating...
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:41 PM   #73
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Keep the v6, make a ttv6, bump the SS up to an Lsa and then make the Z/28 a light car with an LS3. Hows that sound?
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Old 11-17-2009, 08:50 PM   #74
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Going back to the talk about the G8, I heard they were bringing it back as the next generation Impala, but I could have heard wrong. And GM would be crazy to not bring the G8 back. Plain and simple. If it comes back as the Caprice or Impala or whatever, yay GM. If not, boo GM. But I still love em.
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:45 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
First of all the Z/28 was more powerful than the SS, the SS with the 396 put around 350hp give or take, the Z/28 was rated at 290...rated...but that was just to get an advantage in the Trans Am series, the engines really put out a number closer to 420, so yes the Z/28 was more powerful and it had more aggressive gearing (wikipedia, video games, magazines, and anything else "official" will say 290hp just because that was GM's final word on the matter, that doesnt mean its true and it very much wasnt, the dynos were and still are closer to 420)

Anyways in response to this thread, may i be the first to smack my forehead...if you can already buy a 425hp Camaro what the hell is all the hype about a new one, lol, so what its a turbo V6 the V8 does that with not a damn thing attatched and thats where the bragging rights go, lol, and besides there wont be much weight savings, the V6 isnt THAT much lighter than the V8 and even then all the turbo stuff will even it out plus there'll still lower torque, the V6 is the economy car, not the performance car, stop trying to make it the performance car and all you tuners stop whining about it, this is a CAMARO not a friggin Civic, go rice out your 92' import-mobile...and if they do make a twin turbo V6 it better be the base engine for LT models (like Ford's doing with the Mustang) and that V8 better get the same 100hp boost, otherwise im totally not feeling the hype...plus the Z/28 needs to be the performance forerunner of the group, skim down all the luxury items (back seats stay, sorry guys this isnt a corvette its still a pony car) the most i'll let slide is leather, sunroof, and Bose radio, other than that throw all the other dumb accessories out cause they're making these cars cost too much as it is and its just the really retarted picky people who want them, us who are still into muscle cars and not luxury/muscle cars can handle having to put our key in the column and twist to start the engine...i know its a stretch, i know, but trust me, it does in fact work...

LOL...*end rant*

{speechless}
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