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Old 11-18-2009, 04:02 PM   #26
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hey billy doesnt seem to hard just need a coulple wrenches and a spring compressor which ill rent
hopefuly i can do it lol
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-18-2009, 04:08 PM   #27
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if u rent the compressor, we can do it at my place and ill help ya. U can be the guinea pig!
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:10 PM   #28
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lol ill rent it
whats it called?
they should be shipping out the latest monday i beleave
another friend of mine said hed help to

ill bring ther beers =)
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-18-2009, 05:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjk7 View Post
so...back to his initial question. Are there online instructions or video? Im familiar with lots of spring changes on jeeps and have done lifts on front ends with struts/springs. Is this easier or more difficult?
There are paper instructions included in the kits. As well as if you have done any typical macpherson style strut spring set up, this is nothing different.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:27 PM   #30
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looking forward to the look
whats the drop again?
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-18-2009, 05:39 PM   #31
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Autozone...Rent-A-Tool. Problem solved. Instructions for 2010 Camaro? Humm...not really necessary if you follow the typical directions that come with the tool. Kinda' universal but won't tell you exactly which bolt and size to pull. You should get the idea just be reading the directions imo. Pretty straight forward.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjk7 View Post
so...back to his initial question. Are there online instructions or video? Im familiar with lots of spring changes on jeeps and have done lifts on front ends with struts/springs. Is this easier or more difficult?
Billy,

It is not difficult. If you have worked with strut type suspension before, you will do great. Get a spring compressor and the basic set of tools (ala Black10) and have at it. It is a 4 hour job to install the springs. Then you need an alignment.

Don't worry about Mike's bolts, with our 1.25" drop you can achieve a very good street alignment. It is well within the range of the Camaro adjusters. I just did a 2SS and have it set at -.6 deg camber in the back. That is a very nice setting for spirited driving and good tire wear. I recommend staying at around -.8 to -.9 deg of camber in the front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffny09
looking forward to the look
whats the drop again?
1.25" front and rear.

Good luck and have fun.


-Aaron
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:48 PM   #33
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thanks fellaz bily said he would help me
sounds easy but im new to doing stuff my self
so im looking forward to learning
im sure with both of us we can figure it out
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-18-2009, 07:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffny09 View Post
thanks fellaz bily said he would help me
sounds easy but im new to doing stuff my self
so im looking forward to learning
im sure with both of us we can figure it out


its not as bad as you think
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:09 PM   #35
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Lol thanks fellaz should be fun-
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-18-2009, 09:41 PM   #36
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Is there anything other than alignment that needs to be done after a spring install?
Yes. The IRS in the Camaro has numerous rubber bushes. The rubber bushes must timed to the new lower ride height. This is a mission critical step. A rubber bush is no different than a coil. It will spring back to the neutral position. They are set to neutral at OEM ride height. The car is bush bound until the bushes are timed to the new height. This will cause premature wear to the bushes and the car will not ride right with the uneven preloads.

If you do the coil installation on your driveway, have the alignment tech retime the bushes. All he has to do is loosen all the bolts that hold a rubber bush front and rear. This can be done on a rail lift or with the wheels at full droop. Put the car on the ground and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY. Pull it on the alignment lift and tighten the bolts with the weight of the car on the wheels. Then do the standard alignment.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:59 PM   #37
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Ok Pete, time for you to take a long nap!
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:42 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by jeffny09 View Post
Lol thanks fellaz should be fun-
Take some pics and post them, I'll be installing mine in about two weeks. Also are you cutting your bump stops?
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:36 AM   #39
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Take some pics and post them, I'll be installing mine in about two weeks. Also are you cutting your bump stops?
Maybe that's what JusticePete was trying to say - trim the bushing (bump) stops. That English, well, didn't make sense to me

Is that what you were referring to?? Trimming the bushings/bump stops?

Thanks,
Michael J.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:57 AM   #40
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Take a control arm off your car. Clamp the steel ferule in the center of the bush in the jaws of the vice and nothing but the ferule. Make it tight. Does the arm move freely? The answer would be no. The arm will twist the rubber in the bush as you move the arm up or down. That resistance adds coil rate. It is designed into your OEM suspension.

When you lower a car the arm essentially moves up while clamped in the jaws of the vice (bolted in place on your car). That means the arm wants to slam down when you traverse a bump on the bound stroke. On the rebound the arm wants to spring back up. Having the arm incorrectly timed changes the rate of the coil -- Increasing it on the bound stroke and decreases it on the rebound. The inverse would be true if you raised the car. The car cannot drive right because it is a mess. This isn't a concept that is debatable. It is suspension 101 fact.

Bush bind is commonly overlooked by most DIYs and shops. They either don't know or shiort cut the job. Timing all the rubber bushes in the moving arms of the suspension is standard operating procedure for changing coils at all Pedders shops and should be every where.

Cutting bump stops is generally a bad idea. Removing them is worse. When a coil is made it is scragged to set the permanent height. If the coil is scragged again it resets the height. Each scrag (full compression) fatigues the coil. Fatigue shortens coil life. Shortening a bumpstop can cause premature coil fatigue from full compressions. Removing a bumpstop will absolutely increase full scrags and accelerate the fatigue. It isn't a question of if. It is a matter of how long.

For the record, Pedders Camaro coils are designed to operate with the OEM bumpstop in place and uncut.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:23 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Take a control arm off your car. Clamp the steel ferule in the center of the bush in the jaws of the vice and nothing but the ferule. Make it tight. Does the arm move freely? The answer would be no. The arm will twist the rubber in the bush as you move the arm up or down. That resistance adds coil rate. It is designed into your OEM suspension.

When you lower a car the arm essentially moves up while clamped in the jaws of the vice (bolted in place on your car). That means the arm wants to slam down when you traverse a bump on the bound stroke. On the rebound the arm wants to spring back up. Having the arm incorrectly timed changes the rate of the coil -- Increasing it on the bound stroke and decreases it on the rebound. The inverse would be true if you raised the car. The car cannot drive right because it is a mess. This isn't a concept that is debatable. It is suspension 101 fact.

Bush bind is commonly overlooked by most DIYs and shops. They either don't know or shiort cut the job. Timing all the rubber bushes in the moving arms of the suspension is standard operating procedure for changing coils at all Pedders shops and should be every where.
Pete is right on with this. I'll try to make it a little clearer. What he is saying is that all of the rubber joints in your Camaro suspension have a 'happy position' where the rubber is not pulling the control arm up or down. There are a bunch of those joints in both the front and rear. The bolt that holds each control arm to the chassis locks the bushing into a position. Those bolts should be tightened down when the car is sitting at ride height, so that the 'happy position' is at ride height. If you do not reset these bushings after you install your lowering springs, the 'happy position' is still set for the stock ride height. The rubber will creep over time and they will eventually find a new happy position, but it is best to reset these when you install the new springs.

To do this practically, you need to have the car setting on the ground and then loosen each suspension bolt where there is a rubber bushing. Bounce the car or roll it a little, and then re-tighten the bolts. As Pete suggested, you can just have your alignment guy do this for you because he is under the car on the alignment rack already.

-Aaron
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:32 AM   #42
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Great input guys...I'll check with my alignment guys tomorrow.

Thanks!
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:04 PM   #43
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im lost lol
what do i need to do once i install these springs
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-19-2009, 12:30 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Pfadt View Post
Pete is right on with this. I'll try to make it a little clearer. What he is saying is that all of the rubber joints in your Camaro suspension have a 'happy position' where the rubber is not pulling the control arm up or down. There are a bunch of those joints in both the front and rear. The bolt that holds each control arm to the chassis locks the bushing into a position. Those bolts should be tightened down when the car is sitting at ride height, so that the 'happy position' is at ride height. If you do not reset these bushings after you install your lowering springs, the 'happy position' is still set for the stock ride height. The rubber will creep over time and they will eventually find a new happy position, but it is best to reset these when you install the new springs.

To do this practically, you need to have the car setting on the ground and then loosen each suspension bolt where there is a rubber bushing. Bounce the car or roll it a little, and then re-tighten the bolts. As Pete suggested, you can just have your alignment guy do this for you because he is under the car on the alignment rack already.

-Aaron
That makes more sense. I think Pete need to use the "dumbdown" dictionary for the rest of us.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:47 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Pfadt View Post
Pete is right on with this. I'll try to make it a little clearer. What he is saying is that all of the rubber joints in your Camaro suspension have a 'happy position' where the rubber is not pulling the control arm up or down. There are a bunch of those joints in both the front and rear. The bolt that holds each control arm to the chassis locks the bushing into a position. Those bolts should be tightened down when the car is sitting at ride height, so that the 'happy position' is at ride height. If you do not reset these bushings after you install your lowering springs, the 'happy position' is still set for the stock ride height. The rubber will creep over time and they will eventually find a new happy position, but it is best to reset these when you install the new springs.

To do this practically, you need to have the car setting on the ground and then loosen each suspension bolt where there is a rubber bushing. Bounce the car or roll it a little, and then re-tighten the bolts. As Pete suggested, you can just have your alignment guy do this for you because he is under the car on the alignment rack already.

-Aaron
so are you talking about algnment or is this something different?

hey billy you understand this? cuz im not quite sure i know what bolts we would have to loosen?
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-19-2009, 01:35 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffny09 View Post
so are you talking about algnment or is this something different?

hey billy you understand this? cuz im not quite sure i know what bolts we would have to loosen?
The Camaro has 2 control arms on each side in the front and 4 on each side in the rear. Just look at which ones have a rubber bushings on them. The bolts are obvious and you just need to loosen them and re-torque with the car on the ground. Not a big deal at all and it will make sense when you look under your car.

-Aaron
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Pfadt View Post
The Camaro has 2 control arms on each side in the front and 4 on each side in the rear. Just look at which ones have a rubber bushings on them. The bolts are obvious and you just need to loosen them and re-torque with the car on the ground. Not a big deal at all and it will make sense when you look under your car.

-Aaron

Is there a torque ratio for the bushings? Thanks, Eddie.
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:12 PM   #48
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Diagrams

Rubber bushings to loosen and re-tighten.

Front Suspension


Rear Suspension



I do not know the torque specs off the top of my head. You should consult a manual for that.

-Aaron
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:47 PM   #49
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thanks for the pics aaron
the torq specifications shold be in the owners manual? hmm
i take a look but havnt seen anything like that
but i appriciate all your help
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top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You値l never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

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Old 11-19-2009, 04:05 PM   #50
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guys, this is rediculas!

this is turning into a pissing contest between companies trying to one up each other. HE IS NOT ROAD RACING THE CAR, JUST WANTS IT TO LOOK BETTER.

JEFFNY09, just lower your car and get it aligned, but if you want to start unbolting all those that were pointed out , then thats up to you.

but he said it here..... "The rubber will creep over time and they will eventually find a new happy position"
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