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Old 11-20-2009, 10:10 PM   #1
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Is the factory exhaust good enough to use?

I have a local muffler shop that says he will do a muffler delete, use my factory tips, and install a Magnaflow X-Pipe for $350. For the first few years I only plan on doing an exhaust, CAI, and maybe a tune for my performance mods. I already have plans for another handful of non-performance mods (shifter, tint, AAC lights, springs, stripes, etc) so I have plenty of other places to be putting extra $$$.

The question is….how bad is the rest of the factory exhaust system? I hear some say the factory exhaust is actually very good and flows well. It’s just not very loud. Then I hear other people try to talk up their aftermarket cat-back systems (ex: Magnaflow Comp or SOLO Mach X) by saying the factory exhaust has several crimps in it and their mandrel bent systems will be much better. Otherwise, IMO, those systems are basically the same…..a muffler delete with an X-Pipe.

If I go with the local muffler shop’s exhaust do you think the remaining factory system will be bad enough to justify spending the extra $400 - $500? After all, that will cover the cost of my shifter or AAC lights.

My gut feeling is…Yes….the aftermarket cat-backs would be better but until I start doing things like adding LT headers or maybe a Cam I won’t really notice a difference. Go with the local shop and use the extra money on my other mods. I should still get a small increase in HP (guessing 15 rwhp) but maybe not as much as the 3rd party cat-back systems (roughly 20 rwhp).

What is your take?

BTW: This will be my daily driver (although I work from home and only put about 7k a year on my cars). I will have more fun goosing it from stop light to stop light or maybe catching the occasional Mustang/Challenger on the street. I’ll probably go to the track a couple times a year just for fun but not to be super serious.
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:32 AM   #2
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I think it is good enough but it is :
1- Heavy.
2- Quite.
3- Bulky.
I dont think there is big difference in power.

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:44 AM   #3
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If you're not sure, or are wanting to wait till down the road a little bit before modding, look into how much the muffler delete minus the X-pipe would be. Everything gets better once those huge trash cans are off the car Modified exhaust, in most any form you can get is a gift that keeps on giving Been enjoying my Flowmaster setup since the day I got it. Magnaflow's cat-back system sounds AWESOME, I just didn't care for the large exhaust tips.
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Old 11-21-2009, 06:58 AM   #4
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I replaced my exhaust right after I got the car. American Racing LT w/3" back to axle, used stock t/pipes and mufflers. It really sounds nice. Quite while cruising around town, but when you get on it it is great.
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alssiri View Post
I think it is good enough but it is :
1- Heavy.
2- Quite.
3- Bulky.
I dont think there is big difference in power.

Ahmad

1. Yes...but I think that once the mufflers and H-Pipe are removed it will significantly reduce the weight.

2. Agreed....but not once the mufflers are removed.

3. Not sure I understand that one. Once the mufflers are gone and X-Pipe put into place the only reason it should be coming out would be to completely replace it.


I guess my biggest concern is with the so called crimps in the exhaust. Is that really going to cause any kind of a noticeable difference in performance? I doubt it would have anything to do with sound.
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:02 AM   #6
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:06 AM   #7
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When I got my Zoomer's catback exhaust the biggest difference I noticed other than the sound was how much smoother the acceleration was. The throttle response is smoother and it accelerates more evenly and doesn't feel like it's pushing against something. I also love the growling roar it makes when I start the car.

I'm very glad I got mine and couldn't be happier with it.
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:22 AM   #8
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The factory mufflers are heavy. If you do a muffler delete your car may be a bit too loud for daily driving so I would atleast try to get nice sounding mufflers that flow good. I would recommend the SLP Loud Mouth 2 exhaust because it is just an axle back exhaust. It comes with mufflers, piping and tips, all for 539. It costs alot less than a full cat back exhaust and looks great.
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:39 AM   #9
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This made me decide to scratch the cat back idea and live with a quieter car for now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
These Cars DO NOT Respond to Cat back exhaust changes, we test every one we install on a new model like this so we know for sure.

Ted.
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:15 AM   #10
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This made me decide to scratch the cat back idea and live with a quieter car for now...
They may not respond as far as showing more horsepower on a dyno but it DOES make a difference in the type of performance you get when you press the gas pedal. Stock the car feels like it's pushing against something when you accelerate; it's not quite linear or smooth. You don't appreciate or realize this until that is changed by a smooth flowing catback system.

With the new system you can feel the difference; the throttle response is smoother and makes the car feel stronger. The power getting to the rear wheels may be the same but how smoothly it gets there is improved.
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:29 AM   #11
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If sound is what you're after......

Quote:
Originally Posted by caverman View Post
I guess my biggest concern is with the so called crimps in the exhaust. Is that really going to cause any kind of a noticeable difference in performance? I doubt it would have anything to do with sound.
You might address the "crimps" if you're going to squeeze out every ounce of HP/TQ she's got. Get the X pipe, get rid of the resonators, and add some quality mufflers. Ask around, there are tuners on this forum pushing 500hp with the stock 2.5" pipes. The muffler delete sounds "raw" to me, but may suit your needs right now. Oh ya one other thing, avoid using clamps except for maybe just after the cats. If your muffler shop knows their stuff they will agree that welds will eliminate that annoying popping by preventing air from being sucked in and igniting your exhaust on decel.
Those of you with clamps don't believe me? When your car is cold, start it up and run it for a few minutes but don't drive it. Shut it down then take a look under the car later and see where the moisture has puddled up under your clamps.
That civilized rumble of a quality muffler is worth every penny in permagrins.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ************ View Post
The factory mufflers are heavy. If you do a muffler delete your car may be a bit too loud for daily driving so I would atleast try to get nice sounding mufflers that flow good. I would recommend the SLP Loud Mouth 2 exhaust because it is just an axle back exhaust. It comes with mufflers, piping and tips, all for 539. It costs alot less than a full cat back exhaust and looks great.
I like the sound to the LM II but you pay $540 + $100 (X-Pipe) and then maybe $150 to have it all welded in I might as well pay about $100 more and get the 3" MBRP system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy View Post
This made me decide to scratch the cat back idea and live with a quieter car for now...
Where is the thread this came from. I can't believe that the Camaro wouldn't respond to a better flowing exhaust. Even if that was the case I would have to at least do the LM II for better sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
They may not respond as far as showing more horsepower on a dyno but it DOES make a difference in the type of performance you get when you press the gas pedal.
So Doc.....do you think I would have to go with an aftermarket cat-back in order to get a better throddle response? Wouldn't putting on a X-Pipe help do that as well? Is the Zoomer system a 2.5" or 3" system? About how much do they cost?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FwyFlyer View Post
You might address the "crimps" if you're going to squeeze out every ounce of HP/TQ she's got. Get the X pipe, get rid of the resonators, and add some quality mufflers. Ask around, there are tuners on this forum pushing 500hp with the stock 2.5" pipes. The muffler delete sounds "raw" to me, but may suit your needs right now. Oh ya one other thing, avoid using clamps except for maybe just after the cats. If your muffler shop knows their stuff they will agree that welds will eliminate that annoying popping by preventing air from being sucked in and igniting your exhaust on decel.
Those of you with clamps don't believe me? When your car is cold, start it up and run it for a few minutes but don't drive it. Shut it down then take a look under the car later and see where the moisture has puddled up under your clamps.
That civilized rumble of a quality muffler is worth every penny in permagrins.
This sounds logical. I will definately have him weld up everything if I go with a local guy. I'm not really trying to squeeze every little HP out of it. I don't think I'll really notice a 5-10 HP difference. I might try the muffler delete and x-pipe. If it's to loud I can get some LM II mufflers. Only thing is that they are about $200 plus my guess of $60-$100 to install. By then I'm getting only about $200 away from MBRP system? Thats where I can't decide if it would just be better to step up and buy a complete system.

Another question: when you refer to the resonators, aren't you just talking about the H-Pipe? Doesn't the X-Pipe replace that?

DAMN.....this is hard to decide!
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:28 AM   #13
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I did the muffler delete with an added X-Pipe in place of the H-Pipe last week. It cost me $160. The X-Pipe looks just like the Magnaflow X but is not stainless and is an off brand. The setup sounds great! I thought it would be too loud but it's not even close to being too loud. Also, the X-Pipe has definitely helped the throttle response. I can feel the difference.

So yes, I think the factory exhaust is good enough. My take would be do the muffler delete with an X-Pipe. Much cheaper than going with a full after market exhaust. Sounds great and is no where near too loud. The X-Pipe helps the exhaust flow which helps the throttle response. Also, the X-Pipe does not replace the resonators just the H-Pipe. I still have my resonators in place.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:51 AM   #14
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I have the magnaflow street system... And if I were to do it again, would go with your route. . x piple and magnaflows on the back... done.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caverman View Post
I have a local muffler shop that says he will do a muffler delete, use my factory tips, and install a Magnaflow X-Pipe for $350. For the first few years I only plan on doing an exhaust, CAI, and maybe a tune for my performance mods. I already have plans for another handful of non-performance mods (shifter, tint, AAC lights, springs, stripes, etc) so I have plenty of other places to be putting extra $$$.

The question is….how bad is the rest of the factory exhaust system? I hear some say the factory exhaust is actually very good and flows well. It’s just not very loud. Then I hear other people try to talk up their aftermarket cat-back systems (ex: Magnaflow Comp or SOLO Mach X) by saying the factory exhaust has several crimps in it and their mandrel bent systems will be much better. Otherwise, IMO, those systems are basically the same…..a muffler delete with an X-Pipe.

If I go with the local muffler shop’s exhaust do you think the remaining factory system will be bad enough to justify spending the extra $400 - $500? After all, that will cover the cost of my shifter or AAC lights.

My gut feeling is…Yes….the aftermarket cat-backs would be better but until I start doing things like adding LT headers or maybe a Cam I won’t really notice a difference. Go with the local shop and use the extra money on my other mods. I should still get a small increase in HP (guessing 15 rwhp) but maybe not as much as the 3rd party cat-back systems (roughly 20 rwhp).

What is your take?

BTW: This will be my daily driver (although I work from home and only put about 7k a year on my cars). I will have more fun goosing it from stop light to stop light or maybe catching the occasional Mustang/Challenger on the street. I’ll probably go to the track a couple times a year just for fun but not to be super serious.
I had my local muffler shop pull the stock mufflers and resonators, install an X pipe and 4" Magnaflow mufflers for $450 and I am very pleased with the difference. He used as much of the stock piping as possible to keep the cost down. Sounds great, and under hard acceleration does seem to flow a little better the the stock set up did. This is a daily driver for me as well.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:26 PM   #16
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So does anyone have a pic of what the resenators are? Are they just used for sound? Is it worth removing them?

Hey ToeMoe.....any sound clips/video by chance? Where did you get yours done? For $200 savings it might be worth taking a small trip up North. OKC is about 3.5 hrs away. Maybe worth doing a small road trip. After all....$200 will pay for my tint job.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:43 PM   #17
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Like most have said the resonators and mufflers are the big pinch points, replacing them will make the most gains. Replacing the remaining pipes with mandrel bends is just to squeeze the last few ounces out of the exhaust, it's kind of like putting water in the soap bottle when it's almost empty.
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:01 PM   #18
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The biggest issue with the stock mufflers is the look (big and ugly) along with their weight. Trust me, they're heavy.
The LS3 mufflers are pretty much straight through in design so they should flow pretty well.

The L99 mufflers (look identical on the outside) are very different on the inside. They have crazy piping going all different directions. There's definately power to be made by getting rid of the stock mufflers on the L99.
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:23 PM   #19
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If I was to buy an aftermarket X pipe for the 2SS LS3 Camaro I have on order and have it welded in in place of the factory H pipe and resonator would I need it in 2.5 or 3 inch. I've aleady ordered the axle back Borla with mufflers. One other question. I assume under that wide covered metal part about half way down on the exhaust is where the resonator and H pipe are. If I wanted to keep the H pipe and just put the axle back Borla part on with mufflers can I still get to the resonator to have it cut out without doing anything to the H pipe? Thanks
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Old 11-21-2009, 03:36 PM   #20
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The Zoomers setup I got has 3" pipes and with installation it was around $1,400 so these other solutions above will definitely cost less. I liked the tuned sound and performance of the Zoomers so it was worth it to me to get it.
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Old 11-21-2009, 05:06 PM   #21
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Still looking for answer on above posted question on factory exhaust. Any one? Thank you
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Old 11-21-2009, 05:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Still looking for answer on above posted question on factory exhaust. Any one? Thank you

Catbacks are truely overrated (hp wise). What you're planning to do will work just fine.
You might give up a couple rwhp, but not enough to really matter.
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Old 11-21-2009, 05:31 PM   #23
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Ain't broke. Don't fix it. GM spent a huge amount of time and effort to get the Camaro to sound right. No nasty resonances. No droning. Nice, solid, powerful sound without being brash and annoying.

Do you really think a mom&pop shop can do better then Chevrolet?
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Old 11-21-2009, 06:03 PM   #24
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Interesting to read all these responses, had mine 3 months now and have wanted to do something to beef up the rumble since the day i got it.
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Old 11-21-2009, 06:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
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So does anyone have a pic of what the resenators are? Are they just used for sound? Is it worth removing them?
The best I can do.

For the L99 the resonator is the orange big box like figure. On the LS3 it is the orange tubes after the "H" pipe.

Their use on both cars is to reduce the noise and drone in the cabin.
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