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Old 11-27-2009, 08:10 AM   #1
Cmicasa the Great XvX
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Jumping Off the Bandwagon: F**K RWD.. The IMPALA Should Stay FWD/AWD

Because someone brought up the Impala and it staying FWD as being a bad thing...

I want GM to be profitable.. so they don't go down the same road they just came from.. or the same road in FACT.. that the only other manufacturer of RWD mainstream cars for the masses is currently on. Yes.. I'm talking about Chrysler. They manufacturer RWD vehicles in the mainstream line-up and STILL.. are having financial issues. The also send a huge majority of those vehicles to FLEET.

GM offers the Camaro and Corvette as their mainstream RWD vehicles. IF they could have continued the G8 as the Caprice for mass consumption.. built in NA, then I wouldn't have squawked. But to turn a 250K+ unit per year vehicle into a RWD vehicle for mass consumption would be ludicrous. Especially considering it would probably tap out at 100K in sales. To do that they would have to sell it at G8 prices +$2K.. with no incentives. ($29K-$40K)... and the majority of those would have to be V6s to keep CAFE off your back. Doing RWD in Cadillac is the way to go because it's low volume. Having a RWD ENTHUSIAST vehicle at Chevy... the mass producing division at GM is suicidal... and V6 sales of the Camaro better get more of the share, or the Camaro's days will be numbered again.

So ultimately I'm saying "Eff RWD on everything advocates!" And I have 3 RWD vehicles and love them to death... but if the my CTS-V and Vette came in AWD I would have bought those version in a heartbeat. GM needs to move forward.. and give the buyer what it wants. Catering to a strict diet of enthusiasts who take up maaaaybe 20% of the total market, 10% of that 20 who either buy their ENTHUSIAST cars used or not at all, would lead GM right back down the same path that brought us crap like the SSR or last gen Monte Carlo. Look how well its done for Chrysler. REEEEEEEEEEEAL well.

U fellas need to look at this from a BUSINESS point of view, and not the ENTHUSIAST one. That is... if U are gonna discuss product and development outside the realm of competition. Track or otherwise.

It's funny tho. Many of U praise Alan Mullaly and Ford for their direction, yet scathe GM for not going in the opposite. Quiet as it's kept.. FORD ONLY HAS ONE RWD car in it's line-up left. The Crown/Grand Marquis were hardly something to be proud of either, but still gone nonetheless. Nissan only has the 370Z outside of it's niche brand Infiniti. Toyota has none. Honda has none.

Who are trying to compete with then?

Ultimately I have heard nothing but praise and wishful wanting plees for the new Ford Taurus, but then we see people denouncing the idea of a completely competitive Impala using the same engineering policy. That is taking a High Near-Lux vehicle (MKS in the Taurus's case) and turning it into a dumbed down version to appeal top the masses with a "WOW... look at what I can get in a lowly Taurus" effect. The Lacrosse can be this to the Impala.. or more precisely.. the SAAB 9-5.. since Saab seems to riding with the "Boat Man" possibly real soon. I say why waste a stellar car when Chevy needs an updated vehicle ASAP.

The vehicles are literally ready for launch. Anyone looking at the 9-5 and not seeing a vehicle that is low-key enuff to make it as a Chevy Impala is absolutely bonkers. I mean it is plain in a way that screams "200K sales per year." It's low key in a way that screams another 200K sales per year in Europe as a Chevy Flagship.. .or even dare I say... OPEL FLAGSHIP. Yup. That's a no-brainer in a loooooong line of no-brainers. Opel currently has the Insignia, a car the same size as our upcoming regal as it's top ride. WHY would GM not take the 9-5 and make it the Flagship of the Opel brand in Europe? Why would they not take that very same car and give it slightly less expensive leather... a cloth seat option, and a 3.6L Turbo and make it the 2011 Chevy Impala to RIP the A-Hole outta the Ford Taurus the way Big Milo did to Lil Willy in their cell on the block back at San Quinton.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:12 AM   #2
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I assume you mean "remain FWD"?
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:25 AM   #3
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is the 9-5 big enough to be the impala? if so i say WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR???!?!?!?
its a beautiful car
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:27 AM   #4
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is the 9-5 big enough to be the impala? if so i say WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR???!?!?!?
its a beautiful car
It would require a lot of sheet metal changes for Chevrolet design cues.

Anyways, the next-gen Impala is already in development on Super EpII, so the FWD vs. RWD debate shouldn't even matter by this point.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:44 AM   #5
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RWD on the impala doesn't bug me too much because it's not a flagship car or a halo car, it's an everyday people transportation type car. Save RWD for the Cadillacs and Camaros and Corvettes.
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:37 AM   #6
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RWD on the impala doesn't bug me too much because it's not a flagship car or a halo car, it's an everyday people transportation type car. Save RWD for the Cadillacs and Camaros and Corvettes.
I can agree with this. But i will also miss my RWD 91 Caprice when it gets traded in for the SRX real soon....
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:06 PM   #7
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My only issues with a fwd Impala is that The LaCrosse arguably isn't upscale enough in lesser trim levels to leave a lot of room for a really well executed Impala. Don't get me wrong, GM may find a way to live with some product overlap, but they would have to keep it minimized or they are going to revisit some of the same issues they have run into in the past.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:51 PM   #8
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Another name trashed by the shitcar industry.
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Old 11-27-2009, 03:03 PM   #9
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Won't disagree with your point on FWD or RWD for an Impala. At one point a couple of years ago it was RWD and would have been in production now. It was publicly cancelled by Mr. Lutz due to CAFE.

As for taking the Saab 9.5 and rebadgining it? Well first of all Saab still may get sold. Part of the sales pitch would be the all new 9.5, and a soon to be done 9.4 (NAIAS 2009). The 9.5 is so distincly Saab in style that making it a Chevy or Opel would be nearly impossible. So that leaves the question as to whether an Impala would work off of that architecture.

Could you do a LWB Epsilon for Opel? Sure, GM could have very easily made that decision several years ago and the decision was no.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syr74 View Post
My only issues with a fwd Impala is that The LaCrosse arguably isn't upscale enough in lesser trim levels to leave a lot of room for a really well executed Impala. Don't get me wrong, GM may find a way to live with some product overlap, but they would have to keep it minimized or they are going to revisit some of the same issues they have run into in the past.

BS!!!

The base Lacrosse is still slick enuff to compete with the Taurus, Accord, and even Maxima.

Truth is the BASE Lacrosse should simply be the CXL... the CX (Base) could easily be an Impala.. and a damn nice one at that.

  • 255 hp 3.0L DOHC Spark Ignition direct-injection engine with 6-speed automatic transmission, electronically controlled with overdrive, includes Driver Shift Control
  • Dual-stage frontal and side-impact air bags for driver and right-front passenger, head curtain side-impact air bags in front and rear outboard seating positions
  • Ice blue ambient lighting: front and rear doors, console, and instrument panel
  • 8-way power adjustable driver seat
  • Front Bucket SeatsFront Bucket Seats

MSRPš: Starting at $27,085

Put that side by side to even the Taurus SEL and U will find that the base Lacrosse equals it and certainly betters the base SE Taurus. But I digress.. as the Impala in is what we are talking about, and BUICK should be an upgrade from Chevy in the same way Lexus is to Toyota.. Acura is to Honda.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepWarz View Post
Another name trashed by the shitcar industry.

Don't see it that way, and if U actually go look at the Original Impala it wasn't what 1994 made it into. It was a basic Family car using the only driveline of the day for mainstream cars... RWD.
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:07 PM   #12
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I don't care about the drive line, I just would like to see some style.
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:13 PM   #13
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I don't care about the drive line, I just would like to see some style.
From what you drive, you consider this style?

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Old 11-27-2009, 06:20 PM   #14
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From what you drive, you consider this style?

Easy now.
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:25 PM   #15
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if your gonna take a cheap shot at least find the right model year.

kthx =p


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Old 11-27-2009, 06:28 PM   #16
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They look the same to me.
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by SleepWarz View Post
if your gonna take a cheap shot at least find the right model year.

kthx =p

Yes, because that really helps its "style."
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepWarz View Post
I don't care about the drive line, I just would like to see some style.


As slick as this is... I guarantee if they produced one just like it.. sales would be very small in the year 2011.

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Old 11-27-2009, 06:30 PM   #19
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I sense some bitterness fen.

Maybe if you wern't such a fanboy you'd be bit more secure with criticism against GM's products. >.>

(And I'm not about to complain about a car that was given to me for free)
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As slick as this is... I guarantee if they produced one just like it.. sales would be very small in the year 2011.


True, but I didn't say make a replica or even a retro mod. Just anything that isnt a genaric bubblecar with a v shaped trunk. (COUGH REGAL COUGH)
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:53 PM   #20
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True, but I didn't say make a replica or even a retro mod. Just anything that isnt a genaric bubblecar with a v shaped trunk. (COUGH REGAL COUGH)

The Regal looks to be one of the best looking cars in it's class...




and I damn sure cannot imagine that this would not look damn nice on a 2011 Impala.,


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Old 11-27-2009, 07:12 PM   #21
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I sense some bitterness fen.

Maybe if you wern't such a fanboy you'd be bit more secure with criticism against GM's products. >.>
I'm more than secure with criticism regarding GM's products...when said criticism is warranted.
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:15 PM   #22
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and I damn sure cannot imagine that this would not look damn nice on a 2011 Impala.,


It's too Saab-like. Doesn't fit in with the current Chevrolet lineup...and if GM ends up selling Saab, the 9-5 will end up going with it.
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Old 11-27-2009, 07:55 PM   #23
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Styling can change slightly.. altho I don't think it would be necessary. Saabophiles would be the only ones that would kno it wasn't always a Chevy.
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:20 PM   #24
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BS!!!

The base Lacrosse is still slick enuff to compete with the Taurus, Accord, and even Maxima.
Slick enough yes, but the base 3.0L V6 is completely pointless and wouldn't even make sense as a base Impala. The 3.6L powered Lacrosse is more than sufficient to compete in the class, but given the fact that the LaCrosse is really a direct competitor to the Taurus in every meaningful way you have to ask, how do you differentiate the Impala enough to make building one an attractive option? It simply can't be done without building an Impala and a Lacrosse which are effectively the same basic car in different trim levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX
Truth is the BASE Lacrosse should simply be the CXL... the CX (Base) could easily be an Impala.. and a damn nice one at that.
I'll agree that the base LaCrosse should be the CXL, in fact the truth is likely that the CXL should probably be the base Impala allowing the LaCrosse to move even further upmarket going head to head exclusively with cars like the Taurus SHO. Still, the point here is that GM is obviously having issues hashing out where in the heirarchy each brand fits, largely because they want to build three large cars for three different brands on one platform without crowding any of them, but obviously there is still some crowding go on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX
starting at $27,085

Put that side by side to even the Taurus SEL and U will find that the base Lacrosse equals it and certainly betters the base SE Taurus. But I digress.. as the Impala in is what we are talking about, and BUICK should be an upgrade from Chevy in the same way Lexus is to Toyota.. Acura is to Honda
While that sounds great on paper the problem here is that the price of the base LaCrosse CX starts about where the Taurus SEL does (they're within 100 dollars of each other) In base trim that Taurus SEL easily equals the Buick in terms of standard equipment and packs a larger, more powerful, and more fuel efficient V6 that makes the Buick a bit of a tough sell unless you really prefer Buick's styling.

Don't get me wrong, LaCrosse is a very nice car, and I'll be the first to say that the LaCrosse rides on a fundamentally superior platform to the Taurus. The problem/s GM has is that Ford offers attention grabbing options GM doesn't, like the powerful SHO version and SYNC, and has a more cohesive and sensible options list overall. The fact that inter-company cannibalization has been minimzed certainly doesn't hurt either.

Your option of carving the LaCrosse CX from the Buick line and making that an Impala only serves to leave the Impala saddled with an underperforming drivetrain compared to the Taurus and without any upscale trim levels to compete with the same. Ultimately, the problem here is really that the LaCrosse is trying to play too far downmarket in CX and even CXL trim levels to fit where Buick says that they want the brand to fit. But, given the fact that the LaCrosse will eventually have an Epsilon based Caddy to compete with I understand why Buick is hedging their bets, and once again we find that the problem lies in GM trying to fit too many cars into segments which are too similar.

Right now Epsilon has the potential to underpin the best cars in this class, the platform is that good. That said, if Cadillac, Chevy, and Buick are all going to field large cars based on this same platform then GM is going to have to do a better job of sorting out who fits where in the heirarchy or they will run into problems, problems which they have run into too many times in the past and arguably even in the here and now.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:01 PM   #25
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Impala should stay FWD and the G8 should return as a Chevelle, end of story.
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