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Old 01-30-2007, 10:16 AM   #1
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Early release plausible when you read this...

http://www.carpages.ca/go/autonews/0...mpala_etc.aspx

GM Fills In Info on Zeta Cars (Camaro, G8, Impala, etc.)

Canadian Auto Press(Canadian Auto Press) - 1/19/2007

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Earlier this week, General Motors' main product man, Bob Lutz, announced
Australia's Holden Commodore will make its way here as the Pontiac G8. (Photo: Holden)
some important details regarding the replacement of GM's lineup of larger than midsize sedans, the Pontiac Grand Prix and the Chevrolet Impala. Lutz confirmed that the Pontiac's successor would be called the G8, following in suit with the G-number naming scheme, and that the car would have "distinctive Pontiac styling". The G8 will be a rear-wheel drive vehicle, launching the Zeta platform in North America. However, Pontiac will initially be following a proven formula used with its recent GTO, with production first beginning in Australia alongside its brother, the Holden Commodore, with which it shares its underpinnings.

It is expected that after the first year of production, General Motors will switch over the G8’s production location to the Oshawa, Ontario assembly facility where the Camaro will be built. It’s assumed that the new Impala will only join the fray once the G8 makes its move. It's going to be an interesting switchover, as different sources are claiming different scenarios for the G8. The Detroit Free Press reports that the first phase of G8s would merely feature a different
Now picture the Commodore above with a nose similar to this... (Photo: Pontiac)

grille, similar to what happened with the GTO. After it gets moved to Canada, a new Solstice-like nose will be incorporated. Automotive News, on the other hand, reports that the car will have unique styling from day one. Whatever the course of action may be, we’ll see the results shortly as the car is expected to launch at Chicago in a couple of weeks.

Meanwhile, General Motors has put in a lot of extra effort in nailing the coffin shut on its previous nickel and dime attitude. According to its Australian sources, Motor Trend reported that the production version of the Camaro will feature a front axle that's been moved forward by 50 mm (1.97 in) compared to the forthcoming Zeta-based sedans, an expensive change that has important consequences. This change would give the Camaro the ability wear 20-inch and larger alloy wheels without compromising its ability to turn at full lock. According to Motor Trend's sources, the car could
Camaro gets vital changes to accommodate ritzy wheels. (Photo: Chevrolet)
have wheels as large as 24-inches in diameter before running into trouble. Will GM go so far as to fit 24s? No, but 20s on the Z28 model would certainly be fitting.

The sources also were able to confirm a couple of other important details that Camaro fans will most certainly enjoy. The base V6 model is said to have an MSRP starting at around $21,000 US dollars, and would have GM's 3.9-litre V6 engine with a choice of six-speed automatic or manual gearboxes. Also, regarding the Camaro's styling, the magazine reports that the body will remain close to the concept in terms of its design and dimensions. The only changes reported are an increase in roof height by 15.9 mm (5/8ths of an inch), while the body has been slimmed down by 8.5 mm (1/3rd of an inch).





Notice how they say production for the G8 will initially start in Australia before moving over to Oshawa? If they can do it with the G8, why not the Camaro? They're both Zeta chassis cars. Based on the G8 strategy, it could happen.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:25 AM   #2
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Notice how they say production for the G8 will initially start in Australia before moving over to Oshawa? If they can do it with the G8, why not the Camaro? They're both Zeta chassis cars. Based on the G8 strategy, it could happen.
Anything is possible. It really comes down to how badly GM wants to get this car out sooner than later. It is also worth noteing that the Camaros are reportedly being tested "down under" as well, which beggs the question, why would they test them down there and produce them up here? GM is doing one heck of a job keeping this whole project under wraps. I can see how it is possible that they would begin production in australia; however, I just don't think it is going to happen. Here is to you GM.... Prove me wrong!
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:31 AM   #3
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Very Interesting. Find.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:32 AM   #4
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Anything is possible. It really comes down to how badly GM wants to get this car out sooner than later. It is also worth noteing that the Camaros are reportedly being tested "down under" as well, which beggs the question, why would they test them down there and produce them up here? GM is doing one heck of a job keeping this whole project under wraps. I can see how it is possible that they would begin production in australia; however, I just don't think it is going to happen. Here is to you GM.... Prove me wrong!
Its not uncommon for car companies to chose unusual locations to test there cars. I saw a program on Speed once on the BMW 645ci coupe and they tested that thing almost exclusively in South Africa. But GM has plenty of resources at their disposal to do what they want. That's obvious with the 2008 G8, based on the same chassis as our beloved Camaro. They won't wait till 2009, guaranteed.
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Old 01-30-2007, 11:15 AM   #5
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Anything is possible. It really comes down to how badly GM wants to get this car out sooner than later. It is also worth noteing that the Camaros are reportedly being tested "down under" as well, which beggs the question, why would they test them down there and produce them up here? GM is doing one heck of a job keeping this whole project under wraps. I can see how it is possible that they would begin production in australia; however, I just don't think it is going to happen. Here is to you GM.... Prove me wrong!
It is natural to test the vehicles where they are being engineered at this phase. They are running Camaro chassis under Holden car bodies in Australia, not uncommon at all

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Old 01-30-2007, 12:29 PM   #6
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Hey, that's a very good point you make there, rray200. Anything is possible. We'll just have to see what happens. It'll be a full 1 1/2 years after the transformers movie before any camaros see the road. That's quite a long time for the buzz to wear off. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 01-30-2007, 12:38 PM   #7
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When Chevrolet was testing and tunning the C6 Z06 they did all of their performance testing in Germany at Nurburging. At this stage in the game I think it is smart for gm to be testing somewhere else with just under 2 years till the release of the camaro is slated. Why let the paparazzi of the car world get a chance to gain any insights and blow your secrets about this hot new car that everyone is talking about.
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Old 01-30-2007, 01:16 PM   #8
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Hey, that's a very good point you make there, rray200. Anything is possible. We'll just have to see what happens. It'll be a full 1 1/2 years after the transformers movie before any camaros see the road. That's quite a long time for the buzz to wear off. We'll just have to wait and see.
Another thing I heard from another forum is that the first 100,000 Camaros are to be produced before any G8s or Impalas are in Oshawa. That was from someone on the inside in the factory. How credible that is, I don't know and be fully aware I know that this is a he said, she said type of thing.
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Old 01-30-2007, 01:19 PM   #9
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And I was told from a little birdy that we are going to have to wait for the Impalas to finish rolling off a line before the Camaros can be started. Speculation all over again!
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Old 01-30-2007, 01:20 PM   #10
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Another thing I heard from another forum is that the first 100,000 Camaros are to be produced before any G8s or Impalas are in Oshawa. That was from someone on the inside in the factory. How credible that is, I don't know and be fully aware I know that this is a he said, she said type of thing.

100,000... that is very interesting indeed. That would mean a full year's worth of Camaros, which would mean that they would begin production at the end of this year.

I hate waiting....
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Old 01-30-2007, 02:08 PM   #11
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And I was told from a little birdy that we are going to have to wait for the Impalas to finish rolling off a line before the Camaros can be started. Speculation all over again!
All new Impala is to be an '08 model. Rolling off a line sooner than you think!
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Old 01-30-2007, 04:16 PM   #12
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Interesting article, rray200! It will be fun to watch this develop.
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:56 AM   #13
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there are some hindrances to releasing the Camaro early:

1. the Impala and the G8 are both cars that are more important to GM's automobile lineup than the Camaro is... I know we all hate to hear that, but its the truth... not everyone can go down and get a Camaro and it fit into their family's lifestyle... and the G8 and Impala are the cars those folks go down and buy.

2. the G8 and Impala are going to be rebadged Commodores... its easy to keep the exact same underpinnings and the exact same body structure in a 4dr car and just change the four corners, front grille and back side... but the Camaro is an all new car... the Concept's styling isn't like any Holden already on the market... which leads to:

3. when designing a car, you have to meet or exceed every single safety aspect of every single market the car is to be sold in... and anticipate the changes to rules and regs that will come in future years... so the Concept's design has to be adapted to meet all of these demands... something that was not a part of the equation when building a 1 off concept car... a concept car that, btw, doesn't have an e-brake in the passenger compartment and, at least on the silver coupe, doesnt have a hood release in there, either.

I would love to see the 5th gen Camaro introduced early... but there are just too many factors holding that back... and I'd rather wait a while and have GM have a perfect hit on their hands than have them have the same problems they had with the GTO when they simply rebadged a Monaro and shipped it to the USA.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:27 AM   #14
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there are some hindrances to releasing the Camaro early:

1. the Impala and the G8 are both cars that are more important to GM's automobile lineup than the Camaro is... I know we all hate to hear that, but its the truth... not everyone can go down and get a Camaro and it fit into their family's lifestyle... and the G8 and Impala are the cars those folks go down and buy.

2. the G8 and Impala are going to be rebadged Commodores... its easy to keep the exact same underpinnings and the exact same body structure in a 4dr car and just change the four corners, front grille and back side... but the Camaro is an all new car... the Concept's styling isn't like any Holden already on the market... which leads to:

3. when designing a car, you have to meet or exceed every single safety aspect of every single market the car is to be sold in... and anticipate the changes to rules and regs that will come in future years... so the Concept's design has to be adapted to meet all of these demands... something that was not a part of the equation when building a 1 off concept car... a concept car that, btw, doesn't have an e-brake in the passenger compartment and, at least on the silver coupe, doesnt have a hood release in there, either.

I would love to see the 5th gen Camaro introduced early... but there are just too many factors holding that back... and I'd rather wait a while and have GM have a perfect hit on their hands than have them have the same problems they had with the GTO when they simply rebadged a Monaro and shipped it to the USA.

The Camaro may actually be much more important to GM right now than the G8 and Impala. Currently, this company has absolutely nothing exciting to offer customers who are willing to pay $20-$30,000. There current product lineup is bland and unless you've got the big bucks to get a Corvette or Cadillac, there is nothing in their lineup to give the company a pulse. Remember that this is a company that is not in the best of shape and they need an exciting flagship car that's affordable to lots of people to get people to the showrooms to draw attention to other cars, like the Impala and G8. There success also depends on the image of the company, and a car like the Camaro gives an image of excitement and innovation.

Also the stumbling blocks of changing regulations and standards fully apply to the G8 and Impala as much as they do to the Camaro. Those two cars are also based on the same platform and are being brought to the marketplace fairly quickly. Only the body panels are different. If they want, they can get it out the door sooner as a quality car. They've learned there lessons from the GTO. That's why they have top notch people like Tom Peters and Ed Welburn on this car to make sure it doesn't turn out like the GTO.
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:50 AM   #15
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The Camaro may actually be much more important to GM right now than the G8 and Impala. Currently, this company has absolutely nothing exciting to offer customers who are willing to pay $20-$30,000. There current product lineup is bland and unless you've got the big bucks to get a Corvette or Cadillac, there is nothing in their lineup to give the company a pulse. Remember that this is a company that is not in the best of shape and they need an exciting flagship car that's affordable to lots of people to get people to the showrooms to draw attention to other cars, like the Impala and G8. There success also depends on the image of the company, and a car like the Camaro gives an image of excitement and innovation.
I don't think he was saying that the Camaro is not important to GM. I think it is very apparent that this car is extremely important for the reasons you already stated. However, the G8 and Impala are much more important from a financial standpoint because these are GMs volume cars.

With that said, I don't know that the Camaro has to be mutually exclusive of the G8 and Impala. Just becasue they are in a hurry to get their volume cars under production doesn't necessarily mean they do not have the resources to do the same with the Camaro.

With that said, I still think it will hit the showrooms late in 08.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:13 PM   #16
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I don't think he was saying that the Camaro is not important to GM. I think it is very apparent that this car is extremely important for the reasons you already states. However, the G8 and Impala is much more important from a financial standpoint because these are GMs volume cars.

With that said, I don't know that the Camaro has to be mutually exclusive of the G8 and Impala. Just becasue they are in a hurry to get their volume cars under production doesn't necessarily meant hey do not have the resources to do the same with the Camaro.

With that said, I still think it will hit the showrooms late in 08.

I have a feeling one of the reasons why they say '09 release and stick with it is to fool the competition. Best way to make the car a big success and steal away market share from the Mustang is to say late release date, and then spring it on them sooner than expected. That thinking does make sense. The Mustang isn't due for a big horsepower increase until 2009. If they get the Camaro out the door in '08, GM will take a significant market share for muscle cars by doing so and maybe become a frontrunner down the road.

A sneak attack on Ford is quite plausible and will make the Camaro a much bigger money maker.
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Old 01-31-2007, 06:48 PM   #17
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I agree 08 what part I don't know. but why would a company want to sneak attack this car when there are people that are saving now that would drop a deposit on it if they knew it was going to be out real soon. and for people like me that are saving I would save even more if I knew for a fact it was going to be out sooner. yes they shouldn't tell everyone under the sun it's coming out really early but they shouldn't wait to long to tell us when.
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:40 PM   #18
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I have a feeling one of the reasons why they say '09 release and stick with it is to fool the competition. Best way to make the car a big success and steal away market share from the Mustang is to say late release date, and then spring it on them sooner than expected. That thinking does make sense. The Mustang isn't due for a big horsepower increase until 2009. If they get the Camaro out the door in '08, GM will take a significant market share for muscle cars by doing so and maybe become a frontrunner down the road.

A sneak attack on Ford is quite plausible and will make the Camaro a much bigger money maker.
Sneak up on Ford who kept on selling the Mustang and laughing all the way t the bank? I don't see how that 'strategy' will fool anyone... The Mustang has always been lacking in HP from the Camaro and will continue to do so IMO. Of course I'm talking about the normal showroom vehicles like the Mustang GT vs Camaro Z28.
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Old 02-01-2007, 08:21 AM   #19
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Sneak up on Ford who kept on selling the Mustang and laughing all the way t the bank? I don't see how that 'strategy' will fool anyone... The Mustang has always been lacking in HP from the Camaro and will continue to do so IMO. Of course I'm talking about the normal showroom vehicles like the Mustang GT vs Camaro Z28.
Ford has always been successful selling the Mustang because the car never became too expensive like the 4th gens eventually did, and they've had little competition. Sure the LS1s have always been more powerful, but at a much higher price. Ford really isn't exactly sure how much the 5th gen will sell for. If its right in the Mustang's wheelhouse with significantly more HP, GM will have cut the legs out from underneath them, because Ford's modular engines can never match the LSX series engines in power. Ford will have to do alot of R & D in a hurry to come up with something better, and it's doubtful they can do it.
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Old 02-01-2007, 10:57 AM   #20
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well nice article and I can not wait.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:57 AM   #21
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Ford has always been successful selling the Mustang because the car never became too expensive like the 4th gens eventually did, and they've had little competition. Sure the LS1s have always been more powerful, but at a much higher price. Ford really isn't exactly sure how much the 5th gen will sell for. If its right in the Mustang's wheelhouse with significantly more HP, GM will have cut the legs out from underneath them, because Ford's modular engines can never match the LSX series engines in power. Ford will have to do alot of R & D in a hurry to come up with something better, and it's doubtful they can do it.
Take a look at these MSRP prices:

2002 Mustang GT Coupe - $22,965
2002 Mustang GT Convertible - $27,220

2002 Camaro Z28 Coupe - $22,495
2002 Camaro Z28 Convertible - $29,590

How was the LS1 Z28 a much higher price then the Mustang GT?
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:56 PM   #22
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Take a look at these MSRP prices:

2002 Mustang GT Coupe - $22,965
2002 Mustang GT Convertible - $27,220

2002 Camaro Z28 Coupe - $22,495
2002 Camaro Z28 Convertible - $29,590

How was the LS1 Z28 a much higher price then the Mustang GT?
In Canada it was. Not fully familiar with the US pricing. But in Canada the pricing was as follows:

2002 Ford Mustang $22,895 (base V6) - $35,170 (GT)

2002 Chevrolet Camaro $27,270 (base V6) - $39,500 (Z28)

When it came to the SLP SS models, those started in the low $40,000s and could go well over $50,000 with all of the SLP performance options. This does not include the 15% in taxes you pay North of the border.

So yes, I am not completely correct in my US analysis. But as far as why the 4thgen failed in Canada, its pretty obvious with these prices.
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Old 02-01-2007, 01:00 PM   #23
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Take a look at these MSRP prices:

2002 Mustang GT Coupe - $22,965
2002 Mustang GT Convertible - $27,220

2002 Camaro Z28 Coupe - $22,495
2002 Camaro Z28 Convertible - $29,590

How was the LS1 Z28 a much higher price then the Mustang GT?
Assuming a 3% inflation rate per year, that would put the 5th gen Z/28 coupe under $30k!

If they can seriously produce a 400+HP Camaro for under $30k I will be one happy camper
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