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Old 07-23-2008, 01:09 PM   #1
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Z28 - Please try and understand.....

Look guys,

Please stop marginalizing our fondness for the Z28. It may not mean anything to you, but to us it is important. It is a very significant part of Camaro lore. If you don't get why it's important, that's completely fair. However, those of us that are blinded by the possibility of the Z28 would ask that you allow us to indulge ourselves.

Maybe the following scenario will help you understand our position.

In all the recent threads regarding the Z28, replace Z28 with SS or V8. If GM had launched this car and made no confirmation that there would be any SS or V8 available it would bug the hell out of most, if not all of us. Well, that's how we feel about the Z28. It is exclusive and historic to the Camaro, just like the V8 albeit in less volume. Equally there is a smaller percentage of us than those that don't need or even care about the Z28.

So again, we aren't trying to convince you that you should want a Z28. Stop trying to convince us that we don't need it, or that it's no big deal. It's our choice. Cut us some slack. For us, our Camaro hasn't even been announced yet. Yours is on display in its full glory. Be patient with us, we're still waiting.

We want one, and furthermore we want GM to know we want one.

I am in no way trying to continue this back and forth banter. What I would like is for us to be able to continue our conversations on the possibility and potential of the Z28 just like we've all been doing on the Camaro up till last Friday.

If you'd like to join us in respectful conversation on the Z28 then we'd love to engage. If you just want to give us crap, then understand you'll have picked a fight. I truly don't expect the latter to happen, not around Camaro5 anyway.

Boxmonkeyracing, I apologize for not helping you out sooner. You have been a true, respectful, champion and I appreciate you standing your ground. Consider, me at your side from now on.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:22 PM   #2
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I should probably explain my stance since I may be responsible for marginalizing the Z28 crowd.

I am not anti-Z28. I am pro-performance, and I want GM to deliver a high-performance Camaro.

My stance with regard to previous speculation regarding the Z28 was simple. Without reliable evidence, I didn't feel it was safe to encourage speculation or expectations about a car that may not make production in the near future. I was rooting for a 550-hp Camaro just like everyone on here, and I still expect one. I just wasn't going to add to the speculation because I thought that it would lead to disappointment.

Disappointment is dangerous. If we don't get what we want, we start looking elsewhere. My posts were not designed to get rid of those who didn't like what was already there. I was only rationalizing the idea that a top SS isn't such a bad thing. It isn't what we expected as a community, but it's what we have for now. What's great about cars is that what happens for now is not forever. My Camaro RS SS isn't going to be so hot at the track in 40 years when some kid's Camaro RS pummels me with a faster, newer machine. In 40 years, I'm sure people will look back at the Camaro RS SS of 2010 with pride just like you Z28 guys look at previous Z28s.

For those of us who seek nameless performance and power, the Camaro V8 is for us, but so is the GT500. The heritage is there for the SS, too, but the Z28 is Camaro-specific, and we want to be different than Monte Carlo and Cobalt owners. Our car culture is different, so we should be recognized by GM with a different performance car. I believe in the Z28 as a different kind of performance. Hopefully, GM will bring it back in the future.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:24 PM   #3
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People in the know never expected the Z28 at launch.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:26 PM   #4
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Besides....the Gen V motor won't be available until the second year, so no point in building a Z28 till then
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:29 PM   #5
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I should probably explain my stance since I may be responsible for marginalizing the Z28 crowd.

I am not anti-Z28. I am pro-performance, and I want GM to deliver a high-performance Camaro.

My stance with regard to previous speculation regarding the Z28 was simple. Without reliable evidence, I didn't feel it was safe to encourage speculation or expectations about a car that may not make production in the near future. I was rooting for a 550-hp Camaro just like everyone on here, and I still expect one. I just wasn't going to add to the speculation because I thought that it would lead to disappointment.

Disappointment is dangerous. If we don't get what we want, we start looking elsewhere. My posts were not designed to get rid of those who didn't like what was already there. I was only rationalizing the idea that a top SS isn't such a bad thing. It isn't what we expected as a community, but it's what we have for now. What's great about cars is that what happens for now is not forever. My Camaro RS SS isn't going to be so hot at the track in 40 years when some kid's Camaro RS pummels me with a faster, newer machine. In 40 years, I'm sure people will look back at the Camaro RS SS of 2010 with pride just like you Z28 guys look at previous Z28s.

For those of us who seek nameless performance and power, the Camaro V8 is for us, but so is the GT500. The heritage is there for the SS, too, but the Z28 is Camaro-specific, and we want to be different than Monte Carlo and Cobalt owners. Our car culture is different, so we should be recognized by GM with a different performance car. I believe in the Z28 as a different kind of performance. Hopefully, GM will bring it back in the future.
Thank you for the reply,

Again, I'd like to reinforce that we are at least a year, maybe more, behind those who don't want a Z28. We are no more at risk for disappointment then all of us were a year ago when we knew very little about the Camaro. That's why this site is here. So we can speculate and hope for what might someday be. Just like, over the last year, all of us hoped the 5th gen might someday be. If they kill the Z28, I will gladly get the SS. But, I will keep the faith until they do.

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Old 07-23-2008, 01:30 PM   #6
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Attn' GM: Please keep the Z28 alive

I haven't found thread directly about this topic yet, and with several other members chiming in, I figured I'd go out on a limb and see who we could get positive input and support from to keep this car alive and see if we could encourage GM to bring it back as soon as possible. I don't have ANY complaints with the models that have been unveiled, at all, however, it would be great for GM to Z28 back too. Please, I ask that you only add constructive comments on bringing back the Z28 and what you think it should represent. I would urge you to keep them as reasonable as possible and keep in mind of the possiblity of this car being in direct competion with a Shelby Mustang (for example: I don't think the used of carbon fiber body panels or other exotic materials is likely to happen on this car if we expect it to be affordable with the Shelby.) I just happen to think it may be encouraging for GM (assuming they roam around in here from time-to-time) to see what actual fanatics of this model think and what it would mean to them to see this nameplate come back even better than ever. Yeah, GM hasn't confirmed anything, and although 'Father has tried to keep things in perspective, with the fact that every program is being scrutinized, I feel that it's important for GM to see there are many fanatics for this model. I, personally, am not talking about making a $50K car, but something along the lines of what a Shelby is, since it's been stated it was already used as a benchmark in the past.

To me, since the SS is at the top of the pile now, it would make sense for a Z28 to be on top of that (why introduce a model that is lower in performance after the original unveiling?) It would seem reasonable to think that it isn't likely to be lighter than the SS, so let's give it more power (LSA-territory,) tune the suspension a little tighter, and maybe distinguish the exterior and interior a little from the SS. The LSA is already developed, so why can't we drop it in this car? A little intercooler modification here or there and some additional plumbing for the intercooler fluids can't be that hard. Different shocks, bushings, springs, and maybe larger diameter brakes couldn't hurt either. The tranny in the SS is the same from what I understand, so we're good there and we might need a tougher clutch, driveshaft, and half shafts, but those aren't too big a deal since GM has figured out the wheelhop problem and solved them with the ZR1 and CTS-V. I can't go into too much more detail since there is still so much unknown from the new car itself so I just tried to keep it short, unlike the rest of my post.

To sum up, I would just really like a car that I am going to be so pleased with that I'm not going to have to do too much to in order to fulfill my need for speed. Anyone can engineer a supercharger and slap it on the car and call it good, but I'd like something from GM that has all the good stuff already there, as a complete package, that would be as durable as anyone would expect to come out of the factory. I don't want to have to fuss too much with making more power if it already has it. I don't want a $50K car, I just want something that would directly compete with the Shelby (well, go faster of course.) Let's see what those of you who would LOVE to see the Z28 come back have to say and if GM is interested, at least they will have a source to tap from for suggestions and and input.

Your humble Z28 lover,
Chuck
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:30 PM   #7
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thank you.


So back to speculating on what performance upgrades from the SS the Z28 might/could have. . .
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
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People in the know never expected the Z28 at launch.
keywords... the big guys at GM have hinted at a Z28 and that one is being looked at for serious development, but this is just like when the 4th gens came out


base model
Z28 model

a few years later

SS model


only this time around they are going with their roots...

base model
SS model


a few years later

Z28 model.



Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
So back to speculating on what performance upgrades from the SS the Z28 might/could have. . .
a supercharger.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
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People in the know never expected the Z28 at launch.
eggzactly. . .yes I know I misspelled it. lol
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:38 PM   #10
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No doubt about it I want a Z28. that's I'll i could talk about for the past year and how it won't be at sorp but later on. thanks for the positive side.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
keywords... the big guys at GM have hinted at a Z28 and that one is being looked at for serious development, but this is just like when the 4th gens came out


base model
Z28 model

a few years later

SS model


only this time around they are going with their roots...

base model
SS model


a few years later

Z28 model.





a supercharger.
exactly don't worry z28 fans....

i mean i have to wait till 2010 for a convertible
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:40 PM   #12
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Sorry gtahvit - I must have been putting together my thread about pretty much the same topic while you were posting yours, LOL!!! You've made great points and hopefully people will abide by your request and keep postitive feedback in here.

For the record, I don't feel I'm in the know, perse, however, I knew it would not be out at launch, and I'm sure there are a lot more of us out there that knew too. I think that it's just hard not to get answers regarding the model yet, and some of us are starting to panic. That's not a bad thing, but there's no reason for anyone to tell us to stop crying. We didn't tell you to not be please (as I am too) with the SS, it's just we were looking and hoping for more. I'm sure it's at least on the drawing table somewhere and it'll take a couple years to come out, but that's fine. I just hate when I feel someone is trying to deminish my feelings and what I think is important. I try not to do that to others, and expect the same in return. I'm glad The_Blur cleared up some of the air with the last post. It definately helps to get the perspective of others because it's hard to see someone's expressions through a computer screen.

Come on GM - don't let the Z28 down
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:41 PM   #13
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exactly don't worry z28 fans....

i mean i have to wait till 2010 for a convertible
"Good things come to those who wait" - unknown

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Old 07-23-2008, 01:54 PM   #14
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thank you.


So back to speculating on what performance upgrades from the SS the Z28 might/could have. . .
I'm thinking adding power is going to be more feasible. My reasoning: If GM could've made the car lighter I'm sure they would've, so, in addition to the aluminum hood on the car now, maybe add an aluminum decklid, forged wheels as they then to be a little lighter, smaller battery, maybe thinner glass, etc. Hey, a lot of those worked for the C5 Z06! Of course, the supercharger and plumbing is like to cost another 120+lbs., so some of that weight could've offset the SC.

Maybe a more aggressive front facia and hood. I like the hood on the TF2 car, but the facia is a little much the more I look at it. Maybe a different rear facia and spoiler would be nice. I don't think ground effects would really be necessary on the car, although, since they'd likely have to go through the suspension, a little drop would help.

Maybe the addition of a Z28-exclusive color would be cool (i.e. Hugger Orange or something from the past.)

I'd personally just keep the convenience options to a somewhat minimum with a leather package and all power (no sunroof.) I don't need a separate navigation system, and the package that would give me all the gauges possible would be nice.

Stab a short-throw shifter in there and I'd be pretty happy
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:59 PM   #15
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I'm still thinking it should be like the first Gen, Stripped down all around performer. I would like some creature comforts. But, I agree with Radz, don't really need anythimg more than leather and the lighting package, that is real cool. if avialable I'd probably take the BA premium sound package, if not I'll go aftermarket.

Really I want it blown. If it isn't I may save the cash and get the SS
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:02 PM   #16
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Maybe us Z28 guys could handle the wait a little better if we had some kind of confirmation of how long.

It is the not knowing that has some of us going stir crazy.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:03 PM   #17
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As always,

I'm with you guys.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:05 PM   #18
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Joe,

Absolutely, I know everyone keeps saying it isn't dead. And I am really encouraged by that. But if we had the same confirmation that the Vert folks have, I'd be much more relaxed. At least they've been told it's comming. I'm sure it helps ease their mindz.






lets see if he catches that.....
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:08 PM   #19
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also no need to tell people to stop crying...we're the consumers we can cry about any damn thing we want or we buy other products...

you know what even though i'll be happy with an ss...z28 folks keep mentioning it...even though i'm certain its coming

not knowing or having confirmation can be nerve-wrecking...

i remember a few years ago s.e.d. tv's were supposed to blow everything out of the water...they never saw the light of day and people were certain we would have seen them by now...chances are it will never come out
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:15 PM   #20
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also no need to tell people to stop crying...we're the consumers we can cry about any damn thing we want or we buy other products...

you know what even though i'll be happy with an ss...z28 folks keep mentioning it...even though i'm certain its coming

not knowing or having confirmation can be nerve-wrecking...

i remember a few years ago s.e.d. tv's were supposed to blow everything out of the water...they never saw the light of day and people were certain we would have seen them by now...chances are it will never come out
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:25 PM   #21
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I think a Z28 will come . it will mostly be a Camaro with a LS3 engine, RAM Air type hood , better intake and exhaust than the SS, more aggressive cam. It will be 200lbs lighter, Z06 style gearing. 22inch wheels
I would expect it to have 450Hp -475Hp
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:28 PM   #22
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I think a Z28 will come . it will mostly be a Camaro with a LS3 engine, RAM Air type hood , better intake and exhaust than the SS, more aggressive cam. It will be 200lbs lighter, Z06 style gearing. 22inch wheels
I would expect it to have 450Hp -475Hp
Even that would make me happy! Dont need 22, but i could actualy change that.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:31 PM   #23
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The heritage is there for the SS, too, but the Z28 is Camaro-specific, and we want to be different than Monte Carlo and Cobalt owners. Our car culture is different, so we should be recognized by GM with a different performance car. I believe in the Z28 as a different kind of performance. Hopefully, GM will bring it back in the future.
Well I really cannot see what the big deal is, it's just a name. as long as there is a high performance version it shouldn't matter what it is called. Right now Chevy is using the SS designation for all the highest performance versions of their cars except the Corvette. And they want the Corvette to stand apart from anything else. I understand how you feel about the Z-28 but there are many that feel the same about the SS... sooo if you can't have them both they are going with the current theme. And for those who said that the SS was watered down because of overuse, I guess you forgot about the Z-24 Cavalier, the Z-34 Lumina and the Z-26 Beretta. not the best of the Z crowd.....
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:36 PM   #24
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Well I really cannot see what the big deal is, it's just a name. as long as there is a high performance version it shouldn't matter what it is called. Right now Chevy is using the SS designation for all the highest performance versions of their cars except the Corvette. And they want the Corvette to stand apart from anything else. I understand how you feel about the Z-28 but there are many that feel the same about the SS... sooo if you can't have them both they are going with the current theme. And for those who said that the SS was watered down because of overuse, I guess you forgot about the Z-24 Cavalier, the Z-34 Lumina and the Z-26 Beretta. not the best of the Z crowd.....
Noted.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:44 PM   #25
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I've never properly expressed my take on this whole subject...it's hard to do so when you're plaung the balancing act in a conversation....Very good thread, Gthavit, and you're too Radz.


The Z28.

My Dad has one. He's kept it for almost 30 years now: it will be 30 in a few months. It was an underpowered, castrated legend of a car. Being born in the late 70s, how could it not be? But it was a Z28.

When I was growing up this was "Daddy's vroom-vroom car" because it gave off an unmistakable V8 growl at idle. I remember going to Ice Cream stands in that car; traveling across the town in it and recieving stares from 99% of people. I distinclty remember going up on the highway, and cruising at a rumbling 3000 rpms to get to Uncle's house. And I wouldn't give up those memory's of me and my father in his "vroom-vroom" car for all the money in the world. It was a Z28.

I wanted one. Truth be told, I wanted the 'SS' to be the Z28, so that I could afford it. Because almost any vehicle outside of 32k is NOT for me. I wanted it not because it had a supercharger, or because it was going to be an exclusive vehicle. I wanted it because it was a Z28.

But the Camaro is a Chevrolet first and foremost. These are different times, so in order to remain legitimate, it cannot deviate from it's "family". Yet you can't exclude the Z from the lineup. So GM decided to keep the mainstream cars in line with the rest of the Chevy Hierarchy, and designate the "special" Camaro as Z28, much to my dismay. This was both a good and bad decision, in my opinion. Now the name, the legend, and the heritage is bound to the fate of an unnecessary vehicle. Very few people, in the grand scheme of things, will opt for the 500+ hp version of the Camaro. But now...it's a Z28.

Have I proven to you that I know the passion behind the nameplate? That I understand why so many people are so upset at the prospect of killing off the Z28?

But there is something else that I understand. IF, and that's a BIG IF, the car does end up being cancelled; it is because it would not help GM in these desperate times. That is something that supercedes any passion behind the Z28, in my mind. Because if it doesn't help GM; it's only going to hurt it -- and if GM suffers much more hurt, we won't have a Camaro, much less a Z28.

So voice your feelings. Make it known that "If you build it, I will come." But don't complain, don't spread nasty words across other forums. And don't anyone tell someone else that their feelings hold more merit about this topic than another's. There's a silver lining to this; if this car can be built, then they'll build it....Because it's a Z28.
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