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Old 12-01-2009, 09:59 PM   #1
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ecoboost is the future?

im a noob. so i just finally read upon what ecoboost is. sounds like a really good engine. amirite? the think every car will end up having a turbo, if not a hybrid or electric or diesel. sounds to me like the leno car should be made to compete with the ecoboost v6 mustang? maybe.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:19 PM   #2
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Not the bash, but Ecoboost wasn't the first engine with the idea. However, I'll agree with you by saying the TT V6 should be made at least as an option if Ecoboost doesn't find it's way into the Mustang.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:31 PM   #3
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Ecoboost is a collection of technologies which has been given a catchy name. The 2.0L turbo that GM has been running in the Cobalt SS and others is functionally the same, and was introduced first (though I think other manufacturers have done the same thing even earlier). Turbo charger + direct injection + variable valve timing + Ford Motor Company = Ecoboost.

Anyway, I don't buy into the hype about "V6 economy, V8 power". Compare it against a DI V8 of nearly the same power, in a similarly sized car and then I'll be convinced. Until then I'll be sceptical and chalk it up to marketing hype
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:46 AM   #4
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i dont really mean ecoboost specifically, but the technology. with the turbo for the benefits or what not. do you guys think that technology will be as abundant as the hybrids and electrics in the future? or will the n/a engines still be the majority?
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 305pride View Post
im a noob. so i just finally read upon what ecoboost is. sounds like a really good engine. amirite? the think every car will end up having a turbo, if not a hybrid or electric or diesel. sounds to me like the leno car should be made to compete with the ecoboost v6 mustang? maybe.
bold=wtf?

the concept has been around a while. just ford likes to refer to it as ecoboost. sorta like back when engines started being able to cut off cylinders, dodge called it DOD, GM settled on AFM.

I agree about the TTv6. but it's not Z28. lol. yes I said it. I made this another z28 thread. YEEESSSSSSS j/k. great idea thou to combat the ecoboost mustang.
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Ecoboost is a collection of technologies which has been given a catchy name. The 2.0L turbo that GM has been running in the Cobalt SS and others is functionally the same, and was introduced first (though I think other manufacturers have done the same thing even earlier). Turbo charger + direct injection + variable valve timing + Ford Motor Company = Ecoboost.

Anyway, I don't buy into the hype about "V6 economy, V8 power". Compare it against a DI V8 of nearly the same power, in a similarly sized car and then I'll be convinced. Until then I'll be sceptical and chalk it up to marketing hype
Hasn't VW/Audi been doing it for like 10 or so years now?

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bold=wtf?

the concept has been around a while. just ford likes to refer to it as ecoboost. sorta like back when engines started being able to cut off cylinders, dodge called it DOD, GM settled on AFM.

I agree about the TTv6. but it's not Z28. lol. yes I said it. I made this another z28 thread. YEEESSSSSSS j/k. great idea thou to combat the ecoboost mustang.
amirite = am I right
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:12 AM   #7
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I don't know if VW/Audi has been doing it for 10 years, but it's been quite a while. Mazda has been doing it for 5 years or so, then you have the GM LNF as mentioned.

I think the biggest advantage is packaging. You can make a much smaller/lighter platform with "ecoboost" equivalent technology IMHO. I don't think there's a domestic car out yet that designed with this in mind but it's coming. Take the equivalent platforms size wise and it leaves you a lot more potential interior room.

I don't think you'll see the MPG advantages if you look at freeway MPG either, I think you'll see those in the in-town portion of the cycle where you're out of the turbo. Then it really is a V6 with V6 mileage. They need to do away with the split mileage standards- it's misleading.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #8
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I don't know if VW/Audi has been doing it for 10 years, but it's been quite a while. Mazda has been doing it for 5 years or so, then you have the GM LNF as mentioned.

I think the biggest advantage is packaging. You can make a much smaller/lighter platform with "ecoboost" equivalent technology IMHO. I don't think there's a domestic car out yet that designed with this in mind but it's coming. Take the equivalent platforms size wise and it leaves you a lot more potential interior room.

I don't think you'll see the MPG advantages if you look at freeway MPG either, I think you'll see those in the in-town portion of the cycle where you're out of the turbo. Then it really is a V6 with V6 mileage. They need to do away with the split mileage standards- it's misleading.
I doubt there will even be significant weight savings. A (twin) turbo, intercooled engine nearly weighs as much as adding 2 more cylinders. And if its producing similar power and torque, you won't be able to get away with a weaker (lighter) chassis. The extra plumbing will introduce new packaging problems that were eliminated by getting rid of the V8 engine, this is less of a problem between T-I4's and NA V6's.
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:01 PM   #9
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My understanding is that fully plumbed it's about 100lbs lighter and 6-10inches more compact (then the modular ford v8 that is). The intercooler in most cases fills what is now void space between the radiator and bumper. The turbos can be moved for different applications for compactness.

I didn't say weaker, I said smaller and lighter. For instance, an ecoboost v6 would fit in a malibu sized vehicle while a v8 would be a real stretch to shoehorn it in. Therefore the whole platform would be smaller and lighter. I'm not saying use a malibu- I'm just saying size wize.

Conversely if you took a G8 sized vehicle, you could push the firewall and windshield forward a few inches bringing the front seat forward and making more room for the passengers.
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
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My understanding is that fully plumbed it's about 100lbs lighter and 6-10inches more compact (then the modular ford v8 that is). The intercooler in most cases fills what is now void space between the radiator and bumper. The turbos can be moved for different applications for compactness.

I didn't say weaker, I said smaller and lighter. For instance, an ecoboost v6 would fit in a malibu sized vehicle while a v8 would be a real stretch to shoehorn it in. Therefore the whole platform would be smaller and lighter. I'm not saying use a malibu- I'm just saying size wize.

Conversely if you took a G8 sized vehicle, you could push the firewall and windshield forward a few inches bringing the front seat forward and making more room for the passengers.
Maybe you're right. I keep comparing the size and weight of OHV V8's to DOHC V6's. Gotta stop doing that since most automakers use larger, heavier OHC designs on their V8. But considering that a typical DOHC V6 weighs about 350 lbs or more, and the entire turbo kit comes in at around 50 (or more) we're looking at about 400 lb for such an engine, probably more. I've seen quotes that put the Ford ecoboost at over 450 lbs. Ford's modular V8's come in at about 500 lbs, GM's LS engines vary but are generally less than 450.
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:46 PM   #11
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Maybe you're right. I keep comparing the size and weight of OHV V8's to DOHC V6's. Gotta stop doing that since most automakers use larger, heavier OHC designs on their V8. But considering that a typical DOHC V6 weighs about 350 lbs or more, and the entire turbo kit comes in at around 50 (or more) we're looking at about 400 lb for such an engine, probably more. I've seen quotes that put the Ford ecoboost at over 450 lbs. Ford's modular V8's come in at about 500 lbs, GM's LS engines vary but are generally less than 450.
Well I never said GM couldn't do it better lol
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:33 PM   #12
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As dangerous as it is to ever compare a V6 to a V8, I think it is important to look at Ford's EcoBoost V6 platform as a direct competitor to any Chevrolet V8 in the same segment. Think of the turbo setup as another 2 cylinders.

I've heard the argument that a DI V8 can do the same thing, but I'm less worried about performance than I am about sales when it comes to this. Of course, something naturally aspirated with basic bolt-ons could beat a V6 with forced induction that is at its limit. The problem is that a lot of buyers hear "better fuel economy" when they hear "V6." It's true. They get better economy with similar peak numbers. No—the same torque isn't there. No—it doesn't sound the same. Yes—it puts up great numbers. If the technology is there, I'd like to see it happen for GM. It's a potential market for buyers who want good numbers but want to avoid the stigma of a fuel-hungry V8, even if that stigma is not as true as it once was.

I think the people most against it are people who want to start at 400 horses. By saying that, I mean that a lot of us want to continue to put up better numbers and get additional gains after purchasing the car. A GM alternative to EcoBoost could offer people who don't want further gains an option of buying a fast car with better fuel efficiency from the factory.
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:42 PM   #13
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Fight past the corporate hype surrounding the name "EcoBoost" and you'll see Ford's approach to meeting CAFE standards. It's not new. It's not special....however, it's comprehensive, and effective.

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Old 12-03-2009, 09:47 AM   #14
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Fight past the corporate hype surrounding the name "EcoBoost" and you'll see Ford's approach to meeting CAFE standards. It's not new. It's not special....however, it's comprehensive, and effective.

Ya well said.
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