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Old 12-04-2009, 09:08 PM   #1
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BS Dealer - Chapman Chevrolet - Tempe, AZ

First post here, been lurking with a glass on the wall for a few weeks.

Used Chevrolet.com this morning to "mark my interest/request a quote" in a particular 2 LT that was found at a nearby dealer.

I get an email about 5/10 minutes later, with a link to the dealer's website, of what I felt was a pretty decent starting price of $27,245.85 ($1,100 below MSRP).

Another five minutes and I get a call from an internet salesman from the same dealership. I told him I was upside down on my current car, didn't like it at all, and was very interested in the Camaro that I had requested and received a quote on. Told him my trade-in allowance was crucial and he said they were having a "Black book" event for the month of December, and that as they also had a Mazda dealership, they'd give me top dollar for my trade. I have already been talking to several dealers (none of which would budge below MSRP) and expressed that I was hesitant to come in as I wasn't going to pay MSRP. He said my price would be BELOW invoice, I'd get Black Book for my car, and everything would be painless. We set an appt. for 2pm today.

So I drive the 30 miles to the dealer, got caught in construction on the way, which cost me at least 10 minutes - so the nice guy that I am, I called and left a voice mail with the salesman - telling him I'd be 10 mins late. Had to wait for 20-25 rings, but I left a msg anyway, hehe.

I get there and find out "my" salesman was with another customer (I was told his 12pm came in at 2pm). I get another guy, that didn't know anything that had been discussed over the phone. Then during the discussion I mentioned the "below invoice" I was told about over the phone, and the guy about fell out of his chair. He went to the mgr's to mention this and came back in about 5-10 minutes with a 4-square. On it was exact MSRP with a $16K allowance for my car (way below black book value). I then whipped out my phone and showed the direct link to their website with the $27,245 quote, and he acted like I was showing him something in Chinese. He took me over to the sales mgr desk, and I showed them the same link. Their response: "We won't sell any Camaro below MSRP". I'm like "What is this quote/link I received in my email??" I get the same response as the salesman I was with. They wanted to know who had signed the email, I told them the sender's email, etc. and said "So you're not going to honor this quote??" and they again just all looked at me like I was high and said they could page someone to talk to me. I was fed up with them at this point so I took my keys back and left. Of course I mentioned how they "must be crazy to think I'd buy a car from them at this point".

I've talked to 5 or 6 Chevy dealers in the Phoenix area, and though this has been my worse experience, none of them have been particularly great. Much more of this and I'm going to forget about GM at all. Kinda makes you wish you could deal direct with GM, and take the huge profit away from these crooked "dealerships".

Just can't believe a place won't honor a quote from their own website!! Am I expecting too much or what?

Really surprised that they haven't at least had the sense to change their website, but it's still the same as this morning.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:15 PM   #2
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Report them to the BBB. Did he ever answer the question as to why the internet said one price and they are telling you something else?
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS View Post
Report them to the BBB. Did he ever answer the question as to why the internet said one price and they are telling you something else?
No, they never even acknowledged that it was their very own website!

I took a look on BBB, they are A+ rated with 17 complaints, I think 6 were "sales oriented" issues.

I don't want a resolution from them, they'd have to sell it at 4K under MSRP for me to even talk to them now. But I should probably do a BBB complaint.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:01 AM   #4
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That's why so many are buying out of state.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by CamaroScotty View Post
That's why so many are buying out of state.


talk to this guy, he'll hook you up!
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:51 AM   #6
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well I definitly wouldnt go to that guy for a car, but keep in mind that almost every dealer for camaros is selling at MSRP, the only way to get below MSRP that I am aware of is by getting the supplier discount which I got from the GM.com website by being a part of a particular credit union. it knocked off 1100 bucks and I also had the 750 USAA discount.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:07 AM   #7
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Hey, take a look around on this site. You've got at minimum 30 dealers who would LOVE to help you out. Post up what you want and someone would be more than happy to help you out.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:13 AM   #8
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Yeah it sucks for GM that all the bad dealers are out there. Near me they are all charging 2-10k over msrp. The only locals that are charging MSRP don't have any allocation.

I'm going about ~130 miles out of state to get my car at MSRP. Emailed/Called about 30 dealerships within a 3 hour drive to find one that I would be happy to deal with and give my money. They have been great so far but if anything happens in the final steps I will walk away and go with a dealer on here and deal with getting a plane ticket or shipping the car.

Out of the 30 dealers I called probably 25 were horrible. One dealership even got to the point of harassment. I told them I wasn't interested in paying anything over MSRP and a salesman and sales manager proceeded to call and email me at least ten more times trying to convince me that they were doing me a favor by charging me ONLY 2k over MSRP.

I'd say definitely go with one of the dealers on this site. From what I have seen They are some of the best dealers/people you could hope to deal with.

CamaroScotty is always giving us great info/updates when he hears anything. And just look around the forums and you will see tons of thank you threads for Scotty and a lot of the other dealers on here.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:27 AM   #9
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Wow. That freakin sucks. On behalf of GM, Chevrolet dealers, and honest sales people everywhere let me apologize for the way you were treated. We're not all rat bastards. I hope this episode does not sour you on GM, Chevy, and the Camaro.

It's kinda like dating. There are some real horror stories out there, but for every bad experience there are many great ones to be had.... let us know how this turns out for you.
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroScotty View Post
That's why so many are buying out of state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlash22 View Post
talk to this guy, he'll hook you up!
Would love to, but I would prefer not to have to sell my car myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowTime View Post
Out of the 30 dealers I called probably 25 were horrible. One dealership even got to the point of harassment
Guess I can't complain then, I had a phone call from someone at the dealer while I was pulling out of the lot, but I didn't answer. I guess that's harassment, no wait, that's just stupidity on their part

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmie.briseno View Post
well I definitly wouldnt go to that guy for a car, but keep in mind that almost every dealer for camaros is selling at MSRP, the only way to get below MSRP that I am aware of is by getting the supplier discount
But did you click the link from above? And I do realize most are at MSRP, but with that link and what I was told over the phone, I expected lower in this case. I specifically told them I felt it was a waste of my time to come in, but he assured me of "lower than invoice". <Plus I am a USAA member, and my father was a 25+ yr GM employee>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmont View Post
Wow. That freakin sucks. On behalf of GM, Chevrolet dealers, and honest sales people everywhere let me apologize for the way you were treated. We're not all rat bastards. I hope this episode does not sour you on GM, Chevy, and the Camaro.
Wish I was back in MD (where I grew up), I'd definitely be talking to you. I think you'd be shocked at the "mindset" at dealers here in AZ. I sometimes think the intense sunlight here does something to people's brains. Maybe I better get out before it happens to me, I can't afford to lose anymore brain power/cells.

I've also been considering the Hyundai Genesis Coupe (with 3.8L 306HP), but damn it's just not that visually appealing. And also the 370z, but it's too expensive. Really really want a Camaro 2LT. Why does this have to be so damn painful. Geez you'd think GM dealers would just be glad they survived the recent economic period, and they'd be excited that they actually have a car worth buying now (this is just my HO). Also *may* consider the new Mustang now that they look to be using a more suitable V6. But I may have a hard time supporting Ford, never been a Ford guy and I find their projected +1 on HP and +1 on MPG (over the V6 Camaro) to be scumbag/shoddy marketing. Just too many of those on the road so I doubt I'd go that way. But I need a damn DEAL.

There is a couple more dealers here I haven't talked to, I initiated contact with "Courtesy Chevy", they're much further away (this metro area is friggin huge!) - on the north edge of the metro area. But it looks as if they are going to be pretty close to the link I posted.

And don't you guys find it amazing that the link is still "live"?? I'm starting to think the 5 or 6 sales mgr's sitting behind the desk honestly thought I was making it up. But geez, I showed them my phone with the page displayed in a browser!

Just sucks getting your hopes all up <after being lied to on the phone>. Ahh well, such is life.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmart View Post
I've talked to 5 or 6 Chevy dealers in the Phoenix area, and though this has been my worse experience, none of them have been particularly great. Much more of this and I'm going to forget about GM at all. Kinda makes you wish you could deal direct with GM, and take the huge profit away from these crooked "dealerships".

Just can't believe a place won't honor a quote from their own website!! Am I expecting too much or what?

Really surprised that they haven't at least had the sense to change their website, but it's still the same as this morning.
Well i would not deal with them AT ALL, just remember its not GM's fault that that guy is a douche just buy from someone else. I hear lots of people on the forums saying they had a bad experience and will never buy from GM again... but its not GM (and you can obviuosly distinguish that from your quote above) GM has little control over what a dealership does to markup their prices or sell at a discount, you just had a bad dealer. go somewhere else and still enjoy a new camaro!!
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:17 PM   #12
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Warmart - have you tried Chevy Superstition springs? I got a really good deal (GM Supplier) back in July. If you havent, PM me and I will hook you up.

I got to know the internet sales guy and the inventory manager. Just keep your wits about you during F&I
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:38 PM   #13
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Would love to, but I would prefer not to have to sell my car myself.


Guess I can't complain then, I had a phone call from someone at the dealer while I was pulling out of the lot, but I didn't answer. I guess that's harassment, no wait, that's just stupidity on their part


But did you click the link from above? And I do realize most are at MSRP, but with that link and what I was told over the phone, I expected lower in this case. I specifically told them I felt it was a waste of my time to come in, but he assured me of "lower than invoice". <Plus I am a USAA member, and my father was a 25+ yr GM employee>


Wish I was back in MD (where I grew up), I'd definitely be talking to you. I think you'd be shocked at the "mindset" at dealers here in AZ. I sometimes think the intense sunlight here does something to people's brains. Maybe I better get out before it happens to me, I can't afford to lose anymore brain power/cells.

I've also been considering the Hyundai Genesis Coupe (with 3.8L 306HP), but damn it's just not that visually appealing. And also the 370z, but it's too expensive. Really really want a Camaro 2LT. Why does this have to be so damn painful. Geez you'd think GM dealers would just be glad they survived the recent economic period, and they'd be excited that they actually have a car worth buying now (this is just my HO). Also *may* consider the new Mustang now that they look to be using a more suitable V6. But I may have a hard time supporting Ford, never been a Ford guy and I find their projected +1 on HP and +1 on MPG (over the V6 Camaro) to be scumbag/shoddy marketing. Just too many of those on the road so I doubt I'd go that way. But I need a damn DEAL.

There is a couple more dealers here I haven't talked to, I initiated contact with "Courtesy Chevy", they're much further away (this metro area is friggin huge!) - on the north edge of the metro area. But it looks as if they are going to be pretty close to the link I posted.

And don't you guys find it amazing that the link is still "live"?? I'm starting to think the 5 or 6 sales mgr's sitting behind the desk honestly thought I was making it up. But geez, I showed them my phone with the page displayed in a browser!

Just sucks getting your hopes all up <after being lied to on the phone>. Ahh well, such is life.
Sell your car yourself?
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:14 PM   #14
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Warmart, I'm here in Scottsdale and have done a little looking around before working with Bob Mooney at Van Chev. Although Van has a bit of a reputation when it comes to SS's, I'm doing OK with my order for 1LT RS IBM M6 CC. Apparently because I am an LT, I'm at Supplier (credit union), will get the -$500 if the 60 day waiver is still in effect at delivery, and also the -$750 USAA if it is also still in effect. Only issue right now is the LT / RS production constraint which has kept me at 1100 for 3 weeks now. The fat lady hasn't sung yet, but Bob Mooney at Van appears to be the guy here in town for getting a good read on an LT. Hope this helps.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:04 PM   #15
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:57 PM   #16
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Well had more fun today. And yes, I'm doing all I can to avoid ordering. I'll get lucky eventually and find one.

Actually found a 1LT today (on the lot), in Coolidge AZ. And this will crack you up, I called them at 4pm, must've woke the guy up (or else someone else was listening and writing down what he should say) as there was like a 20 second delay after each of my questions. He said "Well you won't be able to come in today as we close in an hour", how about you come in sometime next week?". Well he wasn't "high pressure", LOL. Was actually a very funny (but very sad) conversation. He must be financially stable or something. I remember the days when a salesman would stay HOURS after closing if you were buying.

Jimmie: I'm not blaming GM. Just at times think things would be better for them, without some of these wack jobs.

ajp: I have had good conversations with a Marty from Power @ Superstition Springs. Real nice guy but I would have to order - and I've never done that on a car (I'm 42). Hard to "wrap myself" around this "ordering" concept. Always bought right off the lot, or had it immediately retrieved from a nearby lot.

GMI'76: I have been emailing a "Peter" at Van. They actually have a couple on the lot I would buy today, but they are *really* low-balling me on my trade-in. $12.5 isn't going to cut it on a 6 month old car.

So, in a nutshell, no local dealers want to make this easy. Hehe, I keep trying. Have a couple dealers that might have some more in this week, but I have no idea on my trade value with them yet.

Thanks guys.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:24 PM   #17
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Warmart:

Get ahold of Joe Ott at Paddock Chevrolet (he is on this site) in Kenmore, New York. We had an awful experience with a local dealer and with Joe's help we got exactly what we wanted. We drove from Oklahoma to New York to do the deal because we had a trade. We gave him information and he gave us a quote for our trade (more than what we were offered here in Oklahoma). Plus they accepted the grad discount and we got the 60 day waiver discount. Long story short, we got a 2ss/RS for less than what we were going to pay for just a 2ss that we ordered here. They got me 4.99% interest and were awesome to deal with. It definitely would be in your best interest to give him a call. We had the deal done on Wednesday morning, left Wednesday afternoon and picked up our car on Thursday afternoon. Paperwork was done when we got there so all we had to do was turn over the keys to the trade, sign papers, and drive away. I'm not sure how many camaro's they have on their lot now but a month ago when we got ours they had like 62 on their lot, all different colors, and different packages.
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:56 AM   #18
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Negotiate those interest rates people!!!!!
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:42 AM   #19
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Op give a call to either Camaroscotty,Little bank robber,Becky d or Rockmont. These people are professionals and will treat you right. Most of them will have the car shipped to your local dealer. You can see there ads in the classifieds of the camaros they have for sale. All our members have nothing but good things to say about them. Good luck
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:51 AM   #20
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Warmart,

I think you dodged a bullet finding out early in the game of how they do business. I tend to think even if they had honored the website price, the rest of the process would have been like having a root canal without novacaine.

Like others have already suggested, it's worth contacting one of our C5 dealers. They might even have a good solution for dealing with your trade-in (my out of state dealer does). Besides, what's a few state lines between friends?

Another solution might be to pay extra on your current veh loan (ie: the payment amount for the Camaro just to get used to the numbers) until you can break even on the trade-in. It would give you some flexability getting to the bottom line.

Best of luck in however you decide to work it out. Your Camaro is out there waiting for you to find it.
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:16 AM   #21
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This is definitely shody salesmanship. Taking the salesperson out of the equation for the moment, I looked at that live link and it appears they are asking potential buyers to make an offer ABOVE invoice (as if no reasonable offer would be refused). They are just trying to get potential buyers into the store with that web ad....I know you stated that the salesperson said they'd sell below invoice and give you top-trade, but man that's rare...I would have tried to pry the salesperson you spoke to on the phone away from the other customer and get him involved, if for no other reason than for all the shyt they put you through, maybe get in his grille a bit.

Lots of red flags in this story that gives all the good, honest dealers a bad rap. Sorry your experience sucked...
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Old 12-06-2009, 06:04 PM   #22
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I traded my 10 month old 2009 ram a month ago. It cost me $3,000 and I put 9200 miles on it. You are going to lose some money on your trade if its an 2009. Maybe sell it outright?
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:38 PM   #23
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I have been in your exact place before. You call, and the dealer is great on the phone, wants to sell, sell, sell, and then you get in there and you get another salesman who does not want to sell the car. They want you there because if you researched a specific car online, they think you want it enough to impulsivly bite on a bad deal.

Because of this, I try and stick with dealers I know, even if it costs me a little more. I happened to walk into my local dealer in July or so, and managed to pay sticker for the 2SS/RS in my sig they had sitting on the lot. I also got the $500 rebate they had. It was not the best deal in the world, but I would rather have what I want, locally, from a dealership I trust than spend hours, and bottles of antacid fighting with dealers to save $1000 or so dollars. My dealer is good about overlooking mods and in general is just good to me. I will pay a little more for less hassle.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Yeah it sucks for GM that all the bad dealers are out there. Near me they are all charging 2-10k over msrp. The only locals that are charging MSRP don't have any allocation.
Doesnt that suck!? I too am in the same situation. There are 3 Chevy dealers on Oahu, 2 of them are selling well above MSRP and are getting a shitload of allocations, unlike the one selling at MSRP is barely getting any allocations.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:43 AM   #25
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Location: Ocoee, FL
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Like others have said contact one of the many great dealerships on Camaro5 and get a car from them. I ordered mine from Becky @ Rodgers Chevrolet I even informed her I had a trade. I sent over detailed information on the car including photos, they ran a car fax ect.. I told them what I wanted out of the truck they came back and said they can live with that plus my GM Supplier on the Camaro and the $500 GM-60day rebate. Give one of these dealerships a shot they may suprise you remember don't expect a lot for your trade my Blue Book and Edmonds trade in value said $22k (I searched all over I could not find my vehicle going for that much on-line, I gave them a figure I could live with and they said ok).

Sean
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