Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
JUICEDMOTORSPORTS
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-04-2008, 10:01 AM   #26
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mega View Post
wrong, e85 has less energy, it's ethanol based, you'll get worse mileage

you want to run the lowest octane fuel you can, without predetonation, any higher is a waste of money


already touched on the first part...

and the second, you hit the nail on the head

Octane is defined as a fuel's resistance to knocking. There is no benefit if the octane is higher than what the engine needs. Engine knock occurs when fuel in a combustion chamber ignites before it should. This disrupts the engine's operation. But electronic knock sensors are now common and have nearly eliminated engine disruption.

The American Petroleum Institute says if you find that your car runs fine on a lower grade, there is no sense switching to premium. The Institute recommends following manufacturer's recommendation, but even those manufacturers say that it is more of a suggestion than a command (mainly cus a lot of people who buy cars that have a recommended 93 rating will still go and use 87 cus they arent pushing their car to its limits and arent worried about it).

but i will say this to any LT1/LT4 owners out there. our motors came with roughly 10.5-11.0 cr. thats high considering the cr's of the other vehicles produced in that time. too many times, ive had someone complain about their car bogging down, running rough, and just crapping out in general. i ask what fuel they are running, they say 87... well, there's the problem. 90% of them that switched to premium found the car running smoother and better overall. the other 10% had opti problems... go figure.

adding on that, the cr of todays motors that are rolling off the production line is going up every day. but with more advanced tuning and distinctive engine properties (ie.I.) it is more and more common to see high cr motors running 87 without problems.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 10:01 AM   #27
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by mega View Post
wrong, e85 has less energy, it's ethanol based, you'll get worse mileage
Not wrong. In FI and high-compression applications; E85's natural ~103 Octane rating can have positive effects on performance. Mileage is a different story.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 10:03 AM   #28
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmliptak View Post
Different motor, but that has been my experience with my Cobalt SS/SC. I actually get better mileage with regular, but admittedly it is not scientific since I don't drive exactly the same every time, but it runs very nicely on regular, but I don't spend a ton of time in the upper part of the tach when I drive back and forth to work......


throw a turbo on it and run 3 tanks of e85...lol



that will net you some hp... not sure on mpg tho.
the main thing to keep in mind with e85 vs gasoline, is that gasoline gives you more bang (not necessarily for the buck tho) what would be cool is if they made a dual tank flex fuel vehicle that on acceleration would go off gasoline, but when cruising, would switch to e85....
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 10:07 AM   #29
jmliptak
 
Drives: D
Join Date: May 2008
Location: D
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
throw a turbo on it and run 3 tanks of e85...lol



that will net you some hp... not sure on mpg tho.
the main thing to keep in mind with e85 vs gasoline, is that gasoline gives you more bang (not necessarily for the buck tho) what would be cool is if they made a dual tank flex fuel vehicle that on acceleration would go off gasoline, but when cruising, would switch to e85....
Most of the time I drive for mileage, I would love to have the option of using E85, I don't expect better FUEL mileage, but of you look at your 19 gallon take there is less than 3 gallons of GASOLINE in the tank, even if it costs more its would be nice to use a renewable fuel (yes, it would be better if it didn't come from corn). Imagine walking up to Ed Begley and telling him you use less GASOLINE per tankful than his Prius does....The fact that it has higher octane and has the potential to deliver higher performance doesn't hurt either...
jmliptak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 11:03 AM   #30
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmliptak View Post
Most of the time I drive for mileage, I would love to have the option of using E85, I don't expect better FUEL mileage, but of you look at your 19 gallon take there is less than 3 gallons of GASOLINE in the tank, even if it costs more its would be nice to use a renewable fuel (yes, it would be better if it didn't come from corn). Imagine walking up to Ed Begley and telling him you use less GASOLINE per tankful than his Prius does....The fact that it has higher octane and has the potential to deliver higher performance doesn't hurt either...

do a search for the sugarcane ethanol debate and read some of my posts about what needs to be done. e100 for instance
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 11:14 AM   #31
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 14 Spark
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 17,672
Do E-85 pumps have a larger nozzle than Gasoline pumps? Since E-85 will ruin an engine not designed for it, there needs to be some safeguard to keep people from putting it into their regular cars. I know if they don't there are going to be many people kill their car because they buy the cheaper E-85 not knowing you are not supposed to use it in a car not designed for it.
right now regular is running about $3.60 where E-85 is only about $3.10.
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.
Angrybird 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 11:21 AM   #32
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Someone would need to back me up on this, because I'm not sure...

but I do not believe that E85 will destroy your engine because of one or two tanks full. The biggest reason that E85 is limited to Flex-fuel vehicles is because E85 is corrosive to certain materials found in conventional vehicles. That's why Flex-fuel vehicles have different gas tanks, and different fuel lines, etc. But I believe than a 'normal' car will run on E85, maybe not well...but it won't destroy it right off the bat.


EDIT: Then there's also those big yellow fuel caps, and big yellow pump nozzles (that I've seen)...
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 11:32 AM   #33
camaro1

 
camaro1's Avatar
 
Drives: 550+RWHP 2010 camaro
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,588
the e-85 nozzle at the gas station is the same size as regular fuel so you can put it in any vehicle by mistake

most vehicles made within the last 10 years will handle e-85 without any issues if they are tuned to run on it

there are several companies making an e-85 conversion which consists of a converter box that plugs in between the injectors and the harness that runs to them,, it then has a setting for e-85(basically it just increases your injector pulse width about 30% and has an adjustment so you can fine tune it for your vehicle)

as for being corrosive,, i ran it a whole summer in my s-10 when i first had a carbed 5.3 in it, all i had was steel lines and the factory plastic tank and pump and a holley carb and it ran fine and did not do any damage to the steel or rubber hoses

many people running boosted engines are going to e-85 for the octane/ less detonation properties and the fact that when you run e-85 at the proper air to fuel ratio it will produce more power than gasoline but you need to burn about 30% more to maintain the correct a/f ratio

i work at a chevy dealership and a few times now we have had vehicles come in where the owner decided to try e-85 in there non flex fuel vehicle, the engine will be running lean, buck and surge and the ses light will be on with a few lean codes in it, drain them and fill with regular gasoline and they are fine
__________________
415ci stroker, TVS 2300 Magnacharger, cnc heads, cam, yank ss3200 converter, Kooks long tubes, Bwoody true cold air kit, ZL1 Pump, magnaflow 3" cat-back, lowering springs,BMR control arms and tie rod bars, 3.73 gears, diff mounts, RX can, ADM fuel controller
camaro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 11:51 AM   #34
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 14 Spark
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 17,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro1 View Post
the e-85 nozzle at the gas station is the same size as regular fuel so you can put it in any vehicle by mistake

most vehicles made within the last 10 years will handle e-85 without any issues if they are tuned to run on it

there are several companies making an e-85 conversion which consists of a converter box that plugs in between the injectors and the harness that runs to them,, it then has a setting for e-85(basically it just increases your injector pulse width about 30% and has an adjustment so you can fine tune it for your vehicle)

as for being corrosive,, i ran it a whole summer in my s-10 when i first had a carbed 5.3 in it, all i had was steel lines and the factory plastic tank and pump and a holley carb and it ran fine and did not do any damage to the steel or rubber hoses

many people running boosted engines are going to e-85 for the octane/ less detonation properties and the fact that when you run e-85 at the proper air to fuel ratio it will produce more power than gasoline but you need to burn about 30% more to maintain the correct a/f ratio

i work at a chevy dealership and a few times now we have had vehicles come in where the owner decided to try e-85 in there non flex fuel vehicle, the engine will be running lean, buck and surge and the ses light will be on with a few lean codes in it, drain them and fill with regular gasoline and they are fine
I wasn't meaning one or two tanksfull, I was talking about someone using it over a period of time, from what I have read and heard from experts, one tank will not hurt, but several tanks could not only ruin the Catalytic convertor, but cause detonation and a leaning out of the engine causing a engine failure. A carburated engine would not be effected as much as a fuel injected one computer controlled one, you could change the Jets to make up for the difference.
My advice is if your care is not designed to use it , Stay away from it, Why take the chance to save a few bucks.
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.
Angrybird 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 01:06 PM   #35
camaro1

 
camaro1's Avatar
 
Drives: 550+RWHP 2010 camaro
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,588
if you run e-85 on a non flex fuel vehicle without tuning, it will run so bad i dont know why you would try to run more than a tank through the engine, some vehicles run so lean they will die out at stops and not start when cold

if you tune/program the ecm/pcm for the e-85 you will be fine

you can even get a handheld programmer that will tune your pcm to run on e-85 for most gm trucks that are not flex fuel from the factory
__________________
415ci stroker, TVS 2300 Magnacharger, cnc heads, cam, yank ss3200 converter, Kooks long tubes, Bwoody true cold air kit, ZL1 Pump, magnaflow 3" cat-back, lowering springs,BMR control arms and tie rod bars, 3.73 gears, diff mounts, RX can, ADM fuel controller
camaro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 01:46 PM   #36
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 14 Spark
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 17,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro1 View Post
if you run e-85 on a non flex fuel vehicle without tuning, it will run so bad i dont know why you would try to run more than a tank through the engine, some vehicles run so lean they will die out at stops and not start when cold

if you tune/program the ecm/pcm for the e-85 you will be fine

you can even get a handheld programmer that will tune your pcm to run on e-85 for most gm trucks that are not flex fuel from the factory
If all it is is a ECM reprogram then why do they have 2 different engine options, one with and one without and the E-85 cost more?
Seems to me if it was that simple then it would be standard on ALL engines.
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.
Angrybird 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 01:53 PM   #37
camaro1

 
camaro1's Avatar
 
Drives: 550+RWHP 2010 camaro
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
If all it is is a ECM reprogram then why do they have 2 different engine options, one with and one without and the E-85 cost more?
Seems to me if it was that simple then it would be standard on ALL engines.


factory flex fuel vehicles can run on straight e-85 or any mixture of gas and e-85,, if you program a standard vehicle to run on e-85 you must fill up with straight e-85 every time,, the factory flex fuel vehicles have a sensor to measure the alcohol content and can vary the timing and fuel to run on any % of gas/e-85

the aftermarket conversion boxes have a switch so you can go back to standard gasoline if you want to but you need to run out most all of the e-85 first, then fill up with gasoline and flip the switch back to stock
__________________
415ci stroker, TVS 2300 Magnacharger, cnc heads, cam, yank ss3200 converter, Kooks long tubes, Bwoody true cold air kit, ZL1 Pump, magnaflow 3" cat-back, lowering springs,BMR control arms and tie rod bars, 3.73 gears, diff mounts, RX can, ADM fuel controller
camaro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 02:35 PM   #38
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 14 Spark
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 17,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro1 View Post
factory flex fuel vehicles can run on straight e-85 or any mixture of gas and e-85,, if you program a standard vehicle to run on e-85 you must fill up with straight e-85 every time,, the factory flex fuel vehicles have a sensor to measure the alcohol content and can vary the timing and fuel to run on any % of gas/e-85

the aftermarket conversion boxes have a switch so you can go back to standard gasoline if you want to but you need to run out most all of the e-85 first, then fill up with gasoline and flip the switch back to stock
I was talking about factory engine options, so there is a difference... and as I have read that even if gasoline is rated as E-85, the actual content may be anywhere from E-80 to E-90... that means to run right a single program will not work effectively. It needs the sensor to measure the content of ethanol to program the engine for the best efficency.
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.
Angrybird 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pricing Speculation of the 5th gen - (not actual) CamaroSpike23 Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions 281 01-17-2009 06:22 PM
Premium!? Navy Blue Off-topic Discussions 16 04-17-2008 04:29 PM
ALERT: Lutz mentions engine options for Camaro -- 4 cylinder turbo a possibility! Scotsman Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 269 03-20-2008 01:48 AM
Ford gets 5 top quality awards KILLER74Z28 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 5 06-13-2007 12:28 AM
Premium stereo system? c00l usmc 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 8 05-09-2007 02:36 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.