Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
HAVOC
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission

Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission Tune and diagnostics for engines and auto transmission.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-10-2011, 02:21 PM   #1
Nycteus
 
Drives: 2000 Ford Taurus (Vulcan /sadface)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, PA
Posts: 26
Custom Tuned..... for Fuel Efficiency?

While I don't own my camaro yet, my future "wish list" consists of the 2SS (waiting for the Gen V Engine specs) with some sort of forced air intake. I'm an engineer that handles very powerful electronic motors in the range of 3000 - 6000 and upwards of 37.5k horsepower. So my mentality and desire always leans towards higher power without the cost of efficiency. Hopefully this will explain why I have the question I'm about to put forward.

While most gearheads put super/turbochargers on their vehicles and get custom tunes to maximize their torque and horsepower... I was wondering if there are any shops out there that will tune your vehicle for low-rpm fuel efficiency?

Quite honestly 420+ hp is more than I'll ever need for 95% of my driving distance, so I'd like to see increased mpg's for those 95% of the time. Then, since I will only be gunning the engine for 5% of total driving time it won't matter if my engine isn't maximized for the higher rpms.

I'm sure Chevy's stock tune attempts to maximize the fuel efficiency at those low rpms, but would you be able to increase your fuel efficiency with a custom tune?
Nycteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 02:52 PM   #2
1BADLS3

 
1BADLS3's Avatar
 
Drives: Sold: 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,899
A custom tune is a custom tune--just depends on what you want. The real question is, is it possible to out-do the stock tune in terms of fuel efficiency?

The other question is, why would you want a 2SS if you're looking to de-tune anyhow? Would a V6 RS car not suffice? Or is it about having a V8 for the feeling and sound, just to know you've got it on tap? --That's kind of where I'm at most days.
1BADLS3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 02:55 PM   #3
TooCool5
Resident Gearhead
 
TooCool5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 1LS 3.6 LLT V6 325 HP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central CT
Posts: 3,556
Custom tune it in the form of a V6. 312 HP is more than I ever use and when I did use it it sends chills down my spine. Awesome power with the 6 speed tranny.
__________________
2010 Camaro Auto, Inferno Orange, Titanium Interior, Gearhead Wheels AIRAID CAI
TooCool5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 02:56 PM   #4
Nycteus
 
Drives: 2000 Ford Taurus (Vulcan /sadface)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, PA
Posts: 26
I definitely want the V8 just to know that the power (and as you mentioned, the sound) is there if it needs to be called upon.

I'm 100% ignorant on how a tune is done. Is there just a preset library of fuel mapping that's uploaded or is there an actual computer program that is run that uploads your "maximized" fuel map? Also, is there a setting on such a program for "optimize fuel efficiency?"
Nycteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 02:58 PM   #5
ffrcobra_65
Account Suspended
 
Drives: SuperCharged 2SS/RS IOM MN6
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 5,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BADLS3 View Post
A custom tune is a custom tune--just depends on what you want. The real question is, is it possible to out-do the stock tune in terms of fuel efficiency?

The other question is, why would you want a 2SS if you're looking to de-tune anyhow? Would a V6 RS car not suffice? Or is it about having a V8 for the feeling and sound, just to know you've got it on tap? --That's kind of where I'm at most days.
just to add... many V8 cars already have the low-rpm fuel efficiency tune (switching from 8 cylinders to 4 cylinders on the fly)
ffrcobra_65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 02:58 PM   #6
TooCool5
Resident Gearhead
 
TooCool5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 1LS 3.6 LLT V6 325 HP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central CT
Posts: 3,556
Your over thinking this and want a V8 for all the wrong reasons.
__________________
2010 Camaro Auto, Inferno Orange, Titanium Interior, Gearhead Wheels AIRAID CAI
TooCool5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:01 PM   #7
ffrcobra_65
Account Suspended
 
Drives: SuperCharged 2SS/RS IOM MN6
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 5,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nycteus View Post
I definitely want the V8 just to know that the power (and as you mentioned, the sound) is there if it needs to be called upon.

I'm 100% ignorant on how a tune is done. Is there just a preset library of fuel mapping that's uploaded or is there an actual computer program that is run that uploads your "maximized" fuel map? Also, is there a setting on such a program for "optimize fuel efficiency?"
you can have several tunes and switch from one to the other, up to you. But are you willing to sacrifice your 5 year drivetrain warranty for little savings in mpg? You may save a few hundred $ in fuel cost in 5 years but 1 minor engine or tranny work that is not covered by warranty nullifies that.
ffrcobra_65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:05 PM   #8
Russell James


 
Russell James's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 SS/RS LS3 IBM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,368
Just leave it stock and put loud mufflers on it. Seriously.
Russell James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:10 PM   #9
Nycteus
 
Drives: 2000 Ford Taurus (Vulcan /sadface)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, PA
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 View Post
5 year drivetrain warranty for little savings in mpg?
This may be an issue, I hadn't thought about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 View Post
You may save a few hundred $ in fuel cost in 5 years
My major concern is environmental and America's-Reliance-On-Petroleum that has me leaning towards a more fuel-efficient powerhouse. If everyone does their part, they will convince the auto-makers to adjust their product to support (optimized) E85 or (although a stretch) bio-diesels.
Nycteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:15 PM   #10
mlee
H-Town Camaro Club
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: Number Twenty-Three
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 23,971
A tune on a Stock Camaro will definitely get you increased gas mileage and it will run better too. I gained 3-4 mgh with an out of the box Diablo tune on a complely stock motor. If you're not worried about warranty issues is a great thing to do.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:18 PM   #11
ffrcobra_65
Account Suspended
 
Drives: SuperCharged 2SS/RS IOM MN6
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 5,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nycteus View Post
This may be an issue, I hadn't thought about it.

My major concern is environmental and America's-Reliance-On-Petroleum that has me leaning towards a more fuel-efficient powerhouse. If everyone does their part, they will convince the auto-makers to adjust their product to support (optimized) E85 or (although a stretch) bio-diesels.
may I recommend a Tesla?
ffrcobra_65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:19 PM   #12
Nycteus
 
Drives: 2000 Ford Taurus (Vulcan /sadface)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, PA
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 View Post
may I recommend a Tesla?
I would love one. Unfortunately we're not *quite* there yet.
Nycteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:22 PM   #13
Scruffage
 
Drives: 2011 2ss Rs LS3 manual in black
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: KY
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nycteus View Post
This may be an issue, I hadn't thought about it.

My major concern is environmental and America's-Reliance-On-Petroleum that has me leaning towards a more fuel-efficient powerhouse. If everyone does their part, they will convince the auto-makers to adjust their product to support (optimized) E85 or (although a stretch) bio-diesels.
Maybe you should be looking at the Chevy Volt.
Scruffage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:29 PM   #14
Russell James


 
Russell James's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 SS/RS LS3 IBM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,368
I like the direction we were headed. Big ass motors, 600 + hp ZR1s, affordable muscle cars....

If groups keep getting together and convincing the govt to make gas more expensive, CAFE's through the roof... we are going to wind up with pussified V6 Corvettes, that run on 3 cylinders and turn off at stop lights.

If that is what you want, buy a Prius or a Volt. But I'd prefer to have the vehicles I want still available, and not others opinions forced into my garage.

Modern cars are incredibly efficient. There are next to no tailpipe emissions, plenty of available fuel... muscle cars are a small percent of the equation that should be left alone.

If you want to see real polution and ineffeciency in the world, go over the China or India. It puts our little high hp muscle cars into perspective when your see and taste their air. Driving a 620 hp ZR1 around over in China would actually be cleaning the air.
Russell James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:40 PM   #15
VTXrider

 
VTXrider's Avatar
 
Drives: RY 2SS/RS
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Miami
Posts: 753
From my understanding, a proper tune will improve both your power and MPGs. The stock tune is best for tailpipe emissions (always a trade off for everything). That said remember the stock tune is not the best for any car, it is for the median of what the manufacturer has as the tolerances. Every engine that rolls off the line is slightly different even with today's much tighter tolerances, all the tunes are the same.
__________________
VTXrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:44 PM   #16
Nycteus
 
Drives: 2000 Ford Taurus (Vulcan /sadface)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, PA
Posts: 26
So, with wanting a custom tune for fuel efficiency, would I just walk in to a reputable shop and say "I want a custom tune to maximize fuel efficiency?"

Also, can the stock fuel map be overwritten, or do you have to buy a custom ECM?
Nycteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #17
shawn18
OWTATIME
 
shawn18's Avatar
 
Drives: CaRaMo
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,762
I kid I kid
Attached Images
 
__________________
shawn18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 03:51 PM   #18
ffrcobra_65
Account Suspended
 
Drives: SuperCharged 2SS/RS IOM MN6
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 5,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nycteus View Post
So, with wanting a custom tune for fuel efficiency, would I just walk in to a reputable shop and say "I want a custom tune to maximize fuel efficiency?"

Also, can the stock fuel map be overwritten, or do you have to buy a custom ECM?
yes.....no
ffrcobra_65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 04:08 PM   #19
mlee
H-Town Camaro Club
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: Number Twenty-Three
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 23,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nycteus View Post
So, with wanting a custom tune for fuel efficiency, would I just walk in to a reputable shop and say "I want a custom tune to maximize fuel efficiency?"

Also, can the stock fuel map be overwritten, or do you have to buy a custom ECM?
Exactly... no need for new ECM... just a software load.

We took a Tahoe straight from the dealership because the guy wanted a tune and gained 20 hp and I'm sure much better MPG...

Also, make sure they save your stock tune... if you do have to go back in for warranty work they can put it back on and chances are you won't have any problems... especially since you're not doing extensive mods they won't even look to see if it's ever been tuned.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 06:41 PM   #20
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 ATS 2.0T & '14 Chevrolet SS
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
Exactly... no need for new ECM... just a software load.

We took a Tahoe straight from the dealership because the guy wanted a tune and gained 20 hp and I'm sure much better MPG...

Also, make sure they save your stock tune... if you do have to go back in for warranty work they can put it back on and chances are you won't have any problems... especially since you're not doing extensive mods they won't even look to see if it's ever been tuned.
Mlee, we've covered this many times. GM has a "counter" in the ECM and can tell you how many times and on what date the ECM was reflashed. In order to have any Powertrain warranty paid for by GM, the dealer must submit a copy of the ECM to GM. So once you tune you can't go back, you can only hope you have no powertrain warranty.

That being said, I just love how some guys think that in 2 weeks (the time it took for the first recalibrations to come out after the Camaro launch) somebody can come up with a calibration that is better than GMs engieers take to do in 2 years.

Keep in mind, GM is calibrating the engine for far more conditions, heat, cold, humidity and engine loads, trailering etc. to achieve the best overall BALANCE for FE and emissios. Baker Grade with a trailer on a 110 degree day all the way to a -40 Degree F start in Kapuskasing.

If you knew how much GM is willing to pay for only .1 MPG in any car or truck you would realize this isn't as simple as advertised. So to get 2, 3 or 4 MPG more means you are giving up something that impacts emissions or durability or overall driveability under the full bandwidth of temperatures and humidity that GM wasn't willing to trade off.

The best example I can give you is the GMPP calibration I have in my Sky. It's GM developed and maintains my warranty. But I also know what the tradeoff is for having it. But in Solstice/Sky land, that calibration is farrr to mild.
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley Link to Every Camaro photo I've taken in Hi-Resolution
Number 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 06:59 PM   #21
1BADLS3

 
1BADLS3's Avatar
 
Drives: Sold: 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nycteus View Post
This may be an issue, I hadn't thought about it.

My major concern is environmental and America's-Reliance-On-Petroleum that has me leaning towards a more fuel-efficient powerhouse. If everyone does their part, they will convince the auto-makers to adjust their product to support (optimized) E85 or (although a stretch) bio-diesels.
The Camaro SS really is fuel efficient, when you look at the numbers. It may have relatively low MPG ratings, but the power the car produces is astronomical for the relative amount of fuel that it uses.

Look at this comparison for fuel economy numbers:

2010 Ford Mustang (4.0L V6, auto): 16/24
2010 Chevy Camaro SS (6.2L V8, auto): 16/25

The Camaro SS has an extra 190 horsepower over the 2010 Mustang V6 and trumps it by 1 extra mpg on the highway.
1BADLS3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2011, 07:16 PM   #22
mikeSS


 
mikeSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 7,325
ok a performance tune will add HP/MPG on a stock camaro. i added CAI, headers and a custom tune and that added HP and MPG. best thing for you is get a CAI and a custom tune.
__________________

2010 camaro cammed- sold
2013 E92 V8 M3 DCT ZCP
C7 Z06 next
mikeSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 04:06 PM   #23
mlee
H-Town Camaro Club
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: Number Twenty-Three
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 23,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Mlee, we've covered this many times. GM has a "counter" in the ECM and can tell you how many times and on what date the ECM was reflashed. In order to have any Powertrain warranty paid for by GM, the dealer must submit a copy of the ECM to GM. So once you tune you can't go back, you can only hope you have no powertrain warranty.

That being said, I just love how some guys think that in 2 weeks (the time it took for the first recalibrations to come out after the Camaro launch) somebody can come up with a calibration that is better than GMs engieers take to do in 2 years.

Keep in mind, GM is calibrating the engine for far more conditions, heat, cold, humidity and engine loads, trailering etc. to achieve the best overall BALANCE for FE and emissios. Baker Grade with a trailer on a 110 degree day all the way to a -40 Degree F start in Kapuskasing.

If you knew how much GM is willing to pay for only .1 MPG in any car or truck you would realize this isn't as simple as advertised. So to get 2, 3 or 4 MPG more means you are giving up something that impacts emissions or durability or overall driveability under the full bandwidth of temperatures and humidity that GM wasn't willing to trade off.

The best example I can give you is the GMPP calibration I have in my Sky. It's GM developed and maintains my warranty. But I also know what the tradeoff is for having it. But in Solstice/Sky land, that calibration is farrr to mild.
100% dead on as always... but I never said anything about them not being able to detect a tune and didn't even want to get that one started again... like I said in my first post "if you're not worried about warranty" Should have left it at that.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 12:17 PM   #24
swisscheese
 
swisscheese's Avatar
 
Drives: '91 Z28, '10 2SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: somewhere over the pond
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn18 View Post
I kid I kid
NOW thats one cool shirt
__________________
'10 Camaro SS, LS3, black, iom-stripes, io-interior, custom-shifter, Hotchkis lowering springs, GMPP-mufflers, tinted windows, Vararam-ed and Jannetty-tuned, RX Catch Can

'91 Camaro Z28, 305TPI, black, iom-stripes, some goodies
swisscheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 12:32 PM   #25
CFD



 
Drives: 2SS/RS L99 BLACK
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: MASS.
Posts: 4,766
The only way that tunning a stock car can produce more HP is by making it burn fuel more efficiently, more efficient fuel burn usually goes hand in hand with better fuel economy, untill you jump on the gas pedal, best of both worlds IMHO, problem is the warranty.
CFD is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cope Design* custom paint & Air Brushing copedesign Local Marketplace 2 11-17-2013 07:51 PM
A few questions about custom paint jobs. nardox Cosmetics and Lighting Modification Discussions 11 02-21-2011 08:34 AM
SCT Xcal 3 w/ Custom Tunes now available!!! Meister@Torq V8 Bolt-Ons & Tunes 17 12-24-2009 05:02 PM
Soooo Custom V. Handheld! Blood Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission 7 10-09-2009 05:02 PM
The Official Thread about Custom Paint! pinkcamaro10 Cosmetics and Lighting Modification Discussions 30 03-28-2009 07:17 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.