Vararam CAI Testing on Dyno at England Green Racing (Pix, Vids, RESULTS!!!)

[Santos]

it's going to be even harder to wait now, im like 140 something on the list

[chappy48]

Is that 40-45 gain at 3500rpm with a tune? Because there's no way just an intake alone will give you that much power. I say, just send a production unit to Ted Jannetty and he can find out. He's one of the few people I trust to give a no BS answer.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Vararam is putting out more torque and hp than ALL the other units.

You and Vararam can't make this claim until a comparison is done on the same car on the same dyno on the same day. No two dyno's are the same and every car puts out different gains on the same intake as another car with the same mods. From what I've seen, you have only tested the stock intake and Vararam but what's to say that New Era, Rotofab, CAI or a couple of the others won't put out the same or better numbers on your car? Until you done them all you can't say which one is the best.

I'm waiting on another CAI showdown before I make an decisions on who is better and what to buy as imo these types of comparisons are not complete nor fair as you didn't test the others.

[POWERFREAK]

Originally Posted by chappy48

Is that 40-45 gain at 3500rpm with a tune? Because there's no way just an intake alone will give you that much power. I say, just send a production unit to Ted Jannetty and he can find out. He's one of the few people I trust to give a no BS answer.

dude...how many times did he write NO TUNE???

[toehead93]

since he was so tired last night I think he made have written it once and copy/paste it everywhere else.

I really would have loved VR to be part of the comparison. I guess well have to hope for another. I'm still getting a OTR regardless.

[MadMav]

I truly want to believe the posted power numbers, but I'll wait for the hype to slow and the production models to get into the hands of the users.

Mav

[2SSRS]

Tag nice info i am still hopping for the web site to update sone as i think a lot of the info some members want is on the new pages.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by chappy48

Is that 40-45 gain at 3500rpm with a tune? Because there's no way just an intake alone will give you that much power. I say, just send a production unit to Ted Jannetty and he can find out. He's one of the few people I trust to give a no BS answer.

Once I get the excel data showing gains per rpm, etc, I will post that. Remember, that is already with my headers, high flow cats, etc. A stock car will show different numbers with higher gains. There is no tune on my car. Regarding your statement, "there's no way just an intake alone will give you that much power," I beg to differ. Why? Because just like Ted said, you have to factor in the fiddling with the MAF sensor location. It's almost like getting part of a tune in the unit itself. Also, Patrick is contemplating making the unit adjustable to better suit your car...meaning an adjustable MAF. But, the only issue is that it could cause issues for people who don't KNOW HOW to use the adjustment. People like Ted would be fine since he could hook up HP tuners or Diablo Sport, etc and actually read the AFR's on the car with the MAF one way or the other. But, you put it into Joe Blow's hands and say here you go. Put it this way for your application, but Joe Blow thinks he's going to get more power by turning it the other since that way is for "x" application, he could see tripped CEL lights, running much richer than he should, a rough idle (but GREAT on the acceleration).

Yes, the intake actually takes a small part of the tune since there is play with the MAF.

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

You and Vararam can't make this claim until a comparison is done on the same car on the same dyno on the same day. No two dyno's are the same and every car puts out different gains on the same intake as another car with the same mods. From what I've seen, you have only tested the stock intake and Vararam but what's to say that New Era, Rotofab, CAI or a couple of the others won't put out the same or better numbers on your car? Until you done them all you can't say which one is the best.

I'm waiting on another CAI showdown before I make an decisions on who is better and what to buy as imo these types of comparisons are not complete nor fair as you didn't test the others.

To be fair, you are right. I'd need the New Era and all the others so I could test them side by side and see which one performs the best. Or, better yet, pick the best CAI done on the showdown, get them to send me one, and I'll put it up side by side along w/ the Vararam on my car...same dyno...same day...and I will provide video of it.

I'm sure Ted wants to get his hands on one too. Heck, we all would. Give it time and you will see. That's all I can say. I know it's hard to believe...for a lot of people. But, I have proof...and I posted video to prove what the intake can do on my car...on a dynojet...with proper corrections to be load bearing...land and sea. These are real #'s and real world gains (minus the fact that the vararam unit actually performs better when at actual speeds). You will also see on the site when it gets put up. I completely understand your skepticism and have nothing but respect for your apprehension. Just wait...you'll see (and I know we've been saying a lot of that lately). ;laugh:

Site is done. Corrections being made. Will be up shortly.

Originally Posted by MadMav

I truly want to believe the posted power numbers, but I'll wait for the hype to slow and the production models to get into the hands of the users.

Mav

Sounds good. Just hold off. You can see very well what is going on with my car in the provided videos at England Green. Just watch the reaction from the owner, Jason, on dyno #6 as he comes out of the office and looks at the screen. An expression, "kiss my ass!" heard in the background and my laughing in amazement should say it all.

Again, it's all good. You will understand more clearly when the site gets up and the units ship out. Money back guarantee....solidifies it.

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

Tag nice info i am still hopping for the web site to update sone as i think a lot of the info some members want is on the new pages.

Hope they get it done soon too! I can only see people's eyes as they look at the screen and say, "woah!"

[Cajundude@EnglandGreen]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Sounds good. Just hold off. You can see very well what is going on with my car in the provided videos at England Green. Just watch the reaction from the owner, Jason, on dyno #6 as he comes out of the office and looks at the screen. An expression, "kiss my ass!" heard in the background and my laughing in amazement should say it all.

It is not just your car Doug. We have seen the same gains on several cars including the L99. We have not tested a V6. There will be naysayers whenever a new product comes out. This product has been underway for quite a while now and has been through rigorous testing and transformations to get the end result you see now.

Patrick will not let something go out the door that he is not 100% happy with. What I can tell you is that the pre-orders will be shipping soon and those that have been patiently waiting for it will be happy.

I'll dig up your run in a minute and get the raw data posted on the gains per rpm.

Jason

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

So Jason is your shop where Patrick has done all the dyno testing? I have talked to him on the phone and the L99 model looks to kick some real butt. Can't wait to get mine.

[sales@vararam.com]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Nice Job Guys.

Do you have the Fuel Trim information?

Do you have the Timing and Knock Logs?

Why did you only make 2 baseline runs but 7 with the Varraram?

Just an Observation.

Some of that power is coming from fooling the MAF, The MAF is reporting less air than is actually flowing in to the engine due to MAF Clocking and how Air flows past the sensor hugging one side.

When the MAF reports Less Air then Actual 2 Things Happen, The A/F is leaned and the Timing is advanced.

So in essense the car is being tuned in that respect Via MAF Fooling.

What do we do to find power in a tune? We Clean up the A/F and advance timing.

LS3s with Headers and a Tune put down 410 RWHP with Stock air box and 420 with Most Aftermarket Air intake systems so your right in line with everyone else.

So How much of the power came form actual air flow and how much of the power came from MAF error?

I would say a 50-50 split

Were did the 6 HP and 4 lb torque go on the last pull, I think I know, Computer learning out Knock from too much timing due to maf error.

Ted.

I will give you some quick power point answers.

Anytime the MAF is moved, relocated ,resized or reshaped the entire curve will be changed and the entire system must be rescaled vs OEM to keep it within tolerance.
The Term "Tricking the meter" is not an accurate statement because any good design will follow OEM tolerance regardless of MAF location size or shape.
That is just one aspect of how a proper induction system is designed.
This is not an overnight process it takes time and thousands of miles of testing.
This is what we have spent our time doing with A6 and 6sp manual cars.


(There was no Knock of any kind and there has not been on any car in testing.)

As for power delivered more with headers less without etc... the setup you see is beyond conservative, you could run 89 Octane fuel through it and we have without any knock in 100 deg Texas weather.

because it is so conservative I know that we can easily pull another 5hp and 6-7 ftlbs out of it and even that will still be conservative.

(Filter Flow)The Filters height of 3.0inch is a none issue ,this is for another reason that you will see listed on our site later when it goes live.
( filters are 1400-2000CFM)


Heres the thing guys, This is one of the lowest Before and after Dyno numbers for a 6sp Man that we have on file!
(His Torque gain was low)
We wanted to start him off soft to verify where the car was ,then turn it up, turns out we had alot left.

Due to the Camaros weight ( 3,800lbs)The system is designed to produce greater Torque than HP gains.
There are many features that make that happen but one was to give up peak HP and concentrate on 4500-5500RPM rather than a 5500-5800RPM peak numbers.
Our goal was to build a broad fat power curve ,as an Engine development Engineer who specializes in induction system design, I pride myself on it.
This is a Tuned Induction system, not a cone with a pipe!
Peak numbers will never make for a quick car at 3,800lbs!

We could easily custom tune this car for another 10-15HP even after we lean on it from the numbers listed.

If peak numbers are all that is wanted ....thats easy ,We can switch the aero package around back to our original prototype combination and gain another 6-8hp but we will lose Our broad power curve and the car will not be any quicker.


WE will gain more from each kit ,once the car is on the move from the Ram Effect ,which we limited in the design of the system for a specific gain in flow resulting in a drop in D/A inside the plenum of the intake manifold.

Best Regards VR Tech

[Cajundude@EnglandGreen]

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

So Jason is your shop where Patrick has done all the dyno testing? I have talked to him on the phone and the L99 model looks to kick some real butt. Can't wait to get mine.

I can not answer that 100%. There has been significant testing here and there have been some Beta units sent out to various parts of the country for testing.

[Camar0wn3d]

Originally Posted by sales@vararam.com

Our goal was to build a broad fat power curve ,as an Engine development Engineer who specializes in induction system design, I pride myself on it.

...

If peak numbers are all that is wanted ....thats easy ,We can switch the aero package around back to our original prototype combination and gain another 6-8hp but we will lose Our broad power curve and the car will not be any quicker.


WE will gain more from each kit ,once the car is on the move from the Ram Effect ,which we limited in the design of the system for a specific gain in flow resulting in a drop in D/A inside the plenum of the intake manifold.

Best Regards VR Tech

Torque FTW! Glad I waited!!!

[pedrero]

Looks like we have a lot to look forward too. When do they finally ship? Is this the last stage of testing?

[Wingnut]

VR - Thanks for the detail and info behind the design. As an Engineer I appericate what you've done and how you've done it. Can't wait to get this baby running!

[mlee]

I'm ready for some L99 numbers now...

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

I thought there was going to be some runs on completly stock vehicles?

[GMRULZ]

Very nice guys! It put down what I expected for the most part.

I expected it would be worth about 15rwhp on the dyno peak. I didn`t expect it to change the a/f ratio as much as it did. As Ted suggested it is the equivelant almost of getting an a/f tune. Going from 11.67-12.3 a diff of
.7 a/f and is probably worth 8-10rwhp. So 15rwhp from the additional flow and 10rwhp from essentially an A/F only tune. 12.5-12.7 seems to be ideal on our cars to most tuners where they find the most power w/ basic bolt-ons. I lost horsepower and torque at an A/F of 13.0 vs 12.7 w/ more timing. The great news is this intake is really flowing some air. So a tune at TAG`s 12.3 a/f is not going to net much more, probably 3-6rwhp since the a/f is almost optimal.

All in all a great product, one I was planning on getting, got tired of waiting and since I will be going w/ a Whipple probably was a wise choice to go with the one I did.

I hear ya`ll on the ram air effect, not sure I`m buying that it increases pressure, but it certianly provides a steady stream of cool air.

So here`s my challenge to ya`ll, anyone w/ the Vararam, Headers w/ any exhaust and a tune only (no more mods) on stock Pzero tires, see if you can beat my Non Ram Aired ADM Race Intake, 1 7/8 AR Header w/ cats stock muffler, tuned car on street tires... Until ya`ll can do that, I`m not buying the ram air effect. Sorry guys. Cold air, and a lot of it, heck yeah...Ram air not so much...

[SGOS252382]

So the big question, when will everyone else get their Vararam? I guess Christmas just wasn't in the cards for most of us.

[nhra stocker]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

Very nice guys! It put down what I expected for the most part.

I expected it would be worth about 15rwhp on the dyno peak. I didn`t expect it to change the a/f ratio as much as it did. As Ted suggested it is the equivelant almost of getting an a/f tune. Going from 11.67-12.3 a diff of
.7 a/f and is probably worth 8-10rwhp. So 15rwhp from the additional flow and 10rwhp from essentially an A/F only tune. 12.5-12.7 seems to be ideal on our cars to most tuners where they find the most power w/ basic bolt-ons. I lost horsepower and torque at an A/F of 13.0 vs 12.7 w/ more timing. The great news is this intake is really flowing some air. So a tune at TAG`s 12.3 a/f is not going to net much more, probably 3-6rwhp since the a/f is almost optimal.

All in all a great product, one I was planning on getting, got tired of waiting and since I will be going w/ a Whipple probably was a wise choice to go with the one I did.

I hear ya`ll on the ram air effect, not sure I`m buying that it increases pressure, but it certianly provides a steady stream of cool air.

So here`s my challenge to ya`ll, anyone w/ the Vararam, Headers w/ any exhaust and a tune only (no more mods) on stock Pzero tires, see if you can beat my Non Ram Aired ADM Race Intake, 1 7/8 AR Header w/ cats stock muffler, tuned car on street tires... Until ya`ll can do that, I`m not buying the ram air effect. Sorry guys. Cold air, and a lot of it, heck yeah...Ram air not so much...

Ill take that challenge if thats the CAI i go with! My car (altitude corrected) ran a 12.43 with just a K@N air filter at 500ft above sea level track. I need some of your -648 air In Illinois!!!

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by nhra stocker

Ill take that challenge if thats the CIA i go with! My car (altitude corrected) ran a 12.43 with just a K@N air filter at 500ft above sea level track. I need some of your -648 air In Illinois!!!

Sounds good! No corrected numbers though, the challenge is what you actually run. Come on down sometime, we can put you up for the weekend and you can head to a track rental with our group. 6 hours side by side racing, good track prep and good air all at 105 bucks what more could you ask for!

[Booster]

Price???

[nhra stocker]

Originally Posted by GMRULZ

Sounds good! No corrected numbers though, the challenge is what you actually run. Come on down sometime, we can put you up for the weekend and you can head to a track rental with our group. 6 hours side by side racing, good track prep and good air all at 105 bucks what more could you ask for!

I dont like corrected numbers either but when our cars are running in 2000ft of air difference its the only way to balance it out. I also corrected your time it was a 12.28 at that track elevation. Thanks for the invite but VA. thats a long ways off for me. Ill be at camaro fest though. You coming?

[defragme]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

When the MAF reports Less Air then Actual 2 Things Happen, The A/F is leaned and the Timing is advanced.

So in essense the car is being tuned in that respect Via MAF Fooling.

What do we do to find power in a tune? We Clean up the A/F and advance timing.

LS3s with Headers and a Tune put down 410 RWHP with Stock air box and 420 with Most Aftermarket Air intake systems so your right in line with everyone else.

So How much of the power came form actual air flow and how much of the power came from MAF error?

I would say a 50-50 split

Were did the 6 HP and 4 lb torque go on the last pull, I think I know, Computer learning out Knock from too much timing due to maf error.

Ted.

Ted,
I may be wrong about this, but where you were talking about fooling the MAF and the last pull being less HP: Were you saying that the PCM is changing the long term fuel trims after it "learns" what the O2 sensors are reading? Which would be correcting the MAF error over time?

I may be way off base there, but if I am right, then I dont think people took your post exactly how you meant it.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by sales@vararam.com

I will give you some quick power point answers.

Anytime the MAF is moved, relocated ,resized or reshaped the entire curve will be changed and the entire system must be rescaled vs OEM to keep it within tolerance.
The Term "Tricking the meter" is not an accurate statement because any good design will follow OEM tolerance regardless of MAF location size or shape. That is just one aspect of how a proper induction system is designed.
This is not an overnight process it takes time and thousands of miles of testing.
This is what we have spent our time doing with A6 and 6sp manual cars.


(There was no Knock of any kind and there has not been on any car in testing.)
As for power delivered more with headers less without etc... the setup you see is beyond conservative, you could run 89 Octane fuel through it and we have without any knock in 100 deg Texas weather.

because it is so conservative I know that we can easily pull another 5hp and 6-7 ftlbs out of it and even that will still be conservative.

(Filter Flow)The Filters height of 3.0inch is a none issue ,this is for another reason that you will see listed on our site later when it goes live.
( filters are 1400-2000CFM)


Heres the thing guys, This is one of the lowest Before and after Dyno numbers for a 6sp Man that we have on file!
(His Torque gain was low)
We wanted to start him off soft to verify where the car was ,then turn it up, turns out we had alot left.

Due to the Camaros weight ( 3,800lbs)The system is designed to produce greater Torque than HP gains.
There are many features that make that happen but one was to give up peak HP and concentrate on 4500-5500RPM rather than a 5500-5800RPM peak numbers.
Our goal was to build a broad fat power curve ,as an Engine development Engineer who specializes in induction system design, I pride myself on it.
This is a Tuned Induction system, not a cone with a pipe!
Peak numbers will never make for a quick car at 3,800lbs!

We could easily custom tune this car for another 10-15HP even after we lean on it from the numbers listed.

If peak numbers are all that is wanted ....thats easy ,We can switch the aero package around back to our original prototype combination and gain another 6-8hp but we will lose Our broad power curve and the car will not be any quicker.


WE will gain more from each kit ,once the car is on the move from the Ram Effect ,which we limited in the design of the system for a specific gain in flow resulting in a drop in D/A inside the plenum of the intake manifold.

Best Regards VR Tech

I fully respect what you are doing, and I appreciate you addressing my questions in a professional manner.

We may have a difference of opinion what certain data means.

Above in red are 2 things I would like to address.

OEM tolerances are + or - 5%

I find it very hard to believe there was No Knock Value what so ever, I dyno tune thousands of cars and .5-2 degrees of Knock retard is Normal on completely stock vehicles and quite common, the Stradegy in the computer is designed to keep the engine right on the edge of detonation all the time because this is where the best power is availalbe.

Above I mentioned this, When the MAF reports Less Air then Actual 2 Things Happen, The A/F is leaned and the Timing is advanced.
This is immediately appearent in the data logs and shows up as fuel trims +, I will repeat if the Maf Reports less then actual air flow, Less fuel is added, the O2 sensors see the (maf Error) adds the necessary fuel and we see this as + % fuel trim., NOTE fuel trim is only active during Closed Loop, When you go to WOT it Relies on the MAF Report to add appropriate fuel.

The Computer Power Enrichment Table is Commanding 11.4 but Getting 12.4 that is about a 10% less than actual MAF Reported air Calculation.

The second layer is Engine Load Calculation, and Grams Per cylinder Air.
Less MAF reported, calculates as Less Load Value, our Timing Map is RPM and Load Referenced with less load Extra Timing is Added accordingly.

With all this said, I can't wait to try one, You have the Best warranty in the business and this speaks volumes.