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Old 12-10-2009, 06:30 PM   #1
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Who doesn't want an LSA Z/28?

Okay first off lets keep this friendly cause i know a lot of people get touchy on subjects such as these.

So we've all heard the rumors of the Z/28 engines, ironicly we're looking at "the big three" we've got the LS7, the LS9, and seemingly everyone's favorite, the LSA. Me personally dont favor the LSA and with the overwhelming fanbase for it i was wondering who else might agree with me. For discussion purposes i'll list my reasons as to why i do not favor the LSA...

1.) It is a supercharged LS3, which nearly every aftermarket company and private owner seeking performance has already done thousands upon thousands of times.

2.) If all aftermarket companies (now including the new Yenko i guess) are going to be offering supercharged LS3 Camaros, why would i want a production model like that? It most likely be less powerful, cost more (Nickey Stage 2 is going for $40,000) and innevitably the aftermarket Nickeys and Yenkos will be rarer, more collectible, and more valuable anyways.

3.) Why use a supercharged 550hp engine when there is an N/A 550hp engine available? Despite rumors of it being terminated (yet to be seen as its still strongly supported in the Z06)

4.) Why not just add the LS9 anyways? Top of the line Corvette engines have been available in the past through COPO and other various sources.

5.) An LSA powered Camaro would basically be a re-badged CTS-V, and isnt that exactly what everyone wants GM to get away from these days?

6.) The LSA is the only engine out of the three without forged internals = weaker equipment

7.) Why use a 550hp supercharged LS3 when you have a 663hp supercharged LS3 available?



I may think of more, these are just the issues i could think of on the spot...
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Okay first off lets keep this friendly cause i know a lot of people get touchy on subjects such as these.

So we've all heard the rumors of the Z/28 engines, ironicly we're looking at "the big three" we've got the LS7, the LS9, and seemingly everyone's favorite, the LSA. Me personally dont favor the LSA and with the overwhelming fanbase for it i was wondering who else might agree with me. For discussion purposes i'll list my reasons as to why i do not favor the LSA...

1.) It is a supercharged LS3, which nearly every aftermarket company and private owner seeking performance has already done thousands upon thousands of times.

2.) If all aftermarket companies (now including the new Yenko i guess) are going to be offering supercharged LS3 Camaros, why would i want a production model like that? It most likely be less powerful, cost more (Nickey Stage 2 is going for $40,000) and innevitably the aftermarket Nickeys and Yenkos will be rarer, more collectible, and more valuable anyways.
Warranty

3.) Why use a supercharged 550hp engine when there is an N/A 550hp engine available? Despite rumors of it being terminated (yet to be seen as its still strongly supported in the Z06)
Warranty and driving manners.

4.) Why not just add the LS9 anyways? Top of the line Corvette engines have been available in the past through COPO and other various sources.
Sounds good to me!

5.) An LSA powered Camaro would basically be a re-badged CTS-V, and isnt that exactly what everyone wants GM to get away from these days?
I don't see how you could say that. While the platform is roughly the same the exterior and interior look nothing like the Cadillac.

6.) The LSA is the only engine out of the three without forged internals = weaker equipment
LS3 doesn't have forged internals does it?

7.) Why use a 550hp supercharged LS3 when you have a 663hp supercharged LS3 available?
Once again, sounds good to me.



I may think of more, these are just the issues i could think of on the spot...
I answered in red.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:05 PM   #3
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so you dont want the LSA because its a supercharged ls3, but the ls9 would be cool being just an even more supercharged ls3?
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Like I said before, there is a dealership that is 4 miles away from my house that has 3 2SS's just sitting on their lot. And this is a very small dealership it's not a high volume dealership in a populated area., Come early summer, when 2011's are coming out, the camaro will be offered for 0%. I guarantee it
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apparently you didn't understand my post correctly. If there are 4 (now 6) camaros sitting at a low volume dealership, just imagine how many are sitting at the high volume dealerships
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:31 PM   #4
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Z got the axe... motor is a non issue now...:(
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:44 PM   #5
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I want an LSA...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
1.) It is a supercharged LS3, which nearly every aftermarket company and private owner seeking performance has already done thousands upon thousands of times.
It's FAR more than just simply a supercharged LS3.

2.) If all aftermarket companies (now including the new Yenko i guess) are going to be offering supercharged LS3 Camaros, why would i want a production model like that? It most likely be less powerful, cost more (Nickey Stage 2 is going for $40,000) and innevitably the aftermarket Nickeys and Yenkos will be rarer, more collectible, and more valuable anyways.
It will have a warranty, and have been DESIGNED to be supercharged from the factory. I love the LS3, but it won't last, all things equal, as long as an equivalent LSA. On cost...there's going to be more to the Z than simply a bigger engine. And on collectibility...me? I want my car as complete as possible from the factory.

3.) Why use a supercharged 550hp engine when there is an N/A 550hp engine available? Despite rumors of it being terminated (yet to be seen as its still strongly supported in the Z06)
Is there? The 550hp in the LS7 Camaro concept is not emissions-legal. Several GM people have confirmed that the LS7 is pretty much as good as your going to get out of an LS engine and still be regulations-compliant.

4.) Why not just add the LS9 anyways? Top of the line Corvette engines have been available in the past through COPO and other various sources.
There is nothing equivilant to COPO today, and the LS9 would simply price the Z28 out of competition.

5.) An LSA powered Camaro would basically be a re-badged CTS-V, and isnt that exactly what everyone wants GM to get away from these days?
Not...quite. I think that's a stretch. Cobalt and the G5 is a rebadge...the GMC SUVs and Chevy cousins were rebadges. This would not be. And the Traverse/Enclave/Acadia are examples of similar vehicles being successfully differentiated...A shared engine is not grounds for "rebadge" accusations. At least in my opinion.

6.) The LSA is the only engine out of the three without forged internals = weaker equipment
LS7 does not have forged internals. And "weak" in terms of what? The engine has been extensively tested and proven to apparently be more durable than an LS9...if it's aftermarket you're worried about, I wouldn't. Hennessy has had great success with this engine, and if you're going to get crazy-serious, a forged rotating assembly should be in order anyways.

7.) Why use a 550hp supercharged LS3 when you have a 663hp supercharged LS3 available?
Cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost, cost...
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Z got the axe... motor is a non issue now...:(
Says who?
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Okay first off lets keep this friendly cause i know a lot of people get touchy on subjects such as these.

So we've all heard the rumors of the Z/28 engines, ironicly we're looking at "the big three" we've got the LS7, the LS9, and seemingly everyone's favorite, the LSA. Me personally dont favor the LSA and with the overwhelming fanbase for it i was wondering who else might agree with me. For discussion purposes i'll list my reasons as to why i do not favor the LSA...

1.) It is a supercharged LS3, which nearly every aftermarket company and private owner seeking performance has already done thousands upon thousands of times.
I think it is a bold statment to say that everyone that wanted a SC Camaro has one already. Plus it will be a good platform to work off of. That way you already have the hard part done (the supercharger installed) so all you have to do is simple bolt ons to beat the GT500

2.) If all aftermarket companies (now including the new Yenko i guess) are going to be offering supercharged LS3 Camaros, why would i want a production model like that? It most likely be less powerful, cost more (Nickey Stage 2 is going for $40,000) and innevitably the aftermarket Nickeys and Yenkos will be rarer, more collectible, and more valuable anyways.
Warranty is the easiest answer to this comment

3.) Why use a supercharged 550hp engine when there is an N/A 550hp engine available? Despite rumors of it being terminated (yet to be seen as its still strongly supported in the Z06)
MPG will probably be better with the SC because the displacement will be down

4.) Why not just add the LS9 anyways? Top of the line Corvette engines have been available in the past through COPO and other various sources.
GM is going to want to save that motor for their halo car

5.) An LSA powered Camaro would basically be a re-badged CTS-V, and isnt that exactly what everyone wants GM to get away from these days?
Yeah totally different not sure what happened when you wrote this

6.) The LSA is the only engine out of the three without forged internals = weaker equipment
Isn't the LS9 the only one with forged internals?

7.) Why use a 550hp supercharged LS3 when you have a 663hp supercharged LS3 available?
Are you talking about the LS9 if so see comment above


I may think of more, these are just the issues i could think of on the spot...
Keep thinking
You know the routine above
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Z got the axe... motor is a non issue now...:(
says who the rags I use to whip my rear?

there was never an offical release saying it was on for production. for one. now for two the same rags say it's gotten the axe? think it might be to sell more rags? I think so. . .lmao.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoTToN View Post
so you dont want the LSA because its a supercharged ls3, but the ls9 would be cool being just an even more supercharged ls3?
hardly just a supercharged ls3. may share the same 6.2L's and maybe the same block but the heads, cam, valvtrain, and internals are all different. so hardly a simple ls3 with more boost.



now to the OP. you left out one engine option which is quite possible. by the time the Z28 would debut the c7 vette will have been out. and everyone is speculating that the c7 will have the Gen V motor. so who's to say it won't have that engine.

my feeling is I would accept the LSA but want an NA engine. I want that DI engine. I see great potential in that engine even though it hasn't been announced.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:08 PM   #8
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lol, remember the comment about "touchy issue?"

Personally i would consider the Z/28 a rebadged CTS-V because it would be 2-door, same engine, roughly same deminsions, very likely the same transmission, i mean yeah the platform may be different but how different is it really? looking at the two you'd probly never know the difference

Now as for "weaker internals" i did mean "weaker" not weak itself, ive heard about the testing and yeah its impressive, but some still preffer those better parts...and yeah the LS7 doesnt have all the bells and whistles the LS9 has but its got a lot more in the way of that kinda stuff than the LSA

Also ive heard everyone talking about the cost of the LS9, well how can we really set a price? All people are going by is the ZR1's price which, aside from the fact that there's so many carbon fiber and extra performance components, it was still a legendary car as soon as it hit the showroom floor, not to mention the cream of the crop of GM's crowned king of the crop, of course it'd be extremely expensive...does that make the engine horribly expensive? Not necessarily.

The COPO comment was just proving putting the #1 Corvette engine in a productin Camaro has been more than considered before, its been carried out (also wasnt the 1LE the same way? Im not sure on that though)

Really the big thing that has come to light for me is the warrenty issue
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:15 PM   #9
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To Boxmonkeyracing:

I agree with you, id be perfectly fine with the LSA, its an awsome engine in itself i have nothing against it being in the race, im just saying maybe everyone's quick to speculate? Still, id be fine with it too

Oh and the "LS9 would be fine over the LSA" thing, at that i meant a kind of "why settle for a smaller supercharger with less power when the LS9 is roughly the same with a greater charger and the most stock power ever seen in a production GM vehicle?" just to clarify i mean


I dont mean to disrespect the LSA in any way
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:19 PM   #10
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lol, remember the comment about "touchy issue?"

Personally i would consider the Z/28 a rebadged CTS-V because it would be 2-door, same engine, roughly same deminsions, very likely the same transmission, i mean yeah the platform may be different but how different is it really? looking at the two you'd probly never know the difference
CTS-V is a 4 door. The rebadging that was common in the past was taking the exact same car and changing a couple of body panels and badges, and sometimes not even the body panels were changed and it was only different badges.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:34 PM   #11
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Hm, i was looking at this...i guess its just a coupe concept?

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/sites...john/cts-2.jpg
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:21 PM   #12
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Hm, i was looking at this...i guess its just a coupe concept?

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/sites...john/cts-2.jpg

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/spi...-v_coupe-spied

The CTS-V coupe is moving forward. I guess if you wanted to make any comparsoion to a V it would be to that one

Another thing to consider is that the LSA for the CTS-V is an assembly line made motor this will help to keep the cost down instead of using a much more expensive motor like the LS9 or LS7 which are both hand built
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:34 AM   #13
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The Z/28 would not be a re-badged CTS-V. It will have the same, if not more performance, but would not have near the luxury or interior quality of the Cadillac. It would also lower cost for both vehicles if the same engine is used in the CTS-V/Z28. Think of the Z/28 as an affordable, significantly less luxurious, performance variant of the CTS-V if you have to think of it being a rebadge.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
lol, remember the comment about "touchy issue?"

Personally i would consider the Z/28 a rebadged CTS-V because it would be 2-door, same engine, roughly same deminsions, very likely the same transmission, i mean yeah the platform may be different but how different is it really? looking at the two you'd probly never know the difference

Noise, vibration, harshness, and ride quality will all be improved with the luxury sigma platform. Going by engine and transmission as "rebadging" is 100% off the mark. Rebadge = same platform, same drive train, and swappable interiors/exteriors (often with shared components). Its derived from the ability to take the badges off one car, put them on another, and few would know the difference. This isn't really a debatable point.


Also ive heard everyone talking about the cost of the LS9, well how can we really set a price? All people are going by is the ZR1's price which, aside from the fact that there's so many carbon fiber and extra performance components, it was still a legendary car as soon as it hit the showroom floor, not to mention the cream of the crop of GM's crowned king of the crop, of course it'd be extremely expensive...does that make the engine horribly expensive? Not necessarily.

No, its based largely on the cost of the engines themselves. The LS3 costs about $6000, the LS7 and LSA are both around $13,000. The LS9 is crowding $20,000.
see bold
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