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Old 08-04-2008, 03:46 PM   #1
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Car And Drive Magazine

i just received my monthly car and drive magazine and low and behold the camaro is of course on the cover. it is about the most anticipated cars of 2009. i looked through the article a bit and found that it had a base msrp of 25,000???

Quote:
2010 Chevrolet Camaro - Car News

Neo-retro? Déjà new? Chevy freshens the bloodlines of an old breed.

BY TONY SWAN, PHOTOGRAPHY BY JIM FRENAK
July 2008



So here it is, the third and final entry in the 21st-century pony-car-revival derby. Get your bets down early because we don’t expect to see any more resurrections of famous makes from the galloping go-go Sixties—Barracuda, Firebird, Javelin, et al.—and even gloomier, we think it likely that, given fuel prices and other concerns, this revival is likely to lack the fervor and duration of the original movement.

The first production version of the new Camaro we’ve seen and touched is this yellow car displayed in our gallery. “Touched” includes sitting in, briefly, but did not include driving. And “production” means production sheetmetal but not a showroom-ready car. That happens much later. New Camaros will appear in Chevy dealerships in March, arriving as 2010 models. Convertibles (softtops, no folding hardtop) are due about a year later.

While we have not had our first Camaro driving experience, here’s what we know. Like rival offerings from Ford and, more recently, Dodge, the latest Camaro was inspired by one from the golden age, specifically the 1969 SS model owned by GM design chief Ed Welburn. However, unlike the other revivalist ponies, Chevy’s isn’t a slavish stylistic rerun of the original. Like the Camaro concept that appeared at the 2006 Detroit show—all but identical to it, in fact—Chevy’s neo-retro approach, brought to production readiness under the supervision of Tom Peters, adds plenty of fresh touches, most notably the front end and the dramatic fender creases and character lines, touches that had die-makers tearing their hair and muttering dark curses.

“Those shoulders at the rear have the deepest one-piece stamping we’ve ever done,” says Al Oppenheiser, chief vehicle engineer on the project. “It took us 10 or 12 iterations to get it right.”

This is a much bigger coupe than Welburn’s ’69 SS, and it’s bigger than the current Mustang, though the Dodge Challenger, riding a slightly abbreviated Charger sedan platform, dwarfs them both. Like the Challenger, the Camaro has some sedan in its structural résumé, too, elements of the Zeta I platform developed by Holden, in Australia, that give the Pontiac G8 its eager road responses. But there’s enough difference in the Camaro version—shorter wheelbase and stiffer overall, particularly from the A-pillar forward—to justify a Zeta II designation.

At 112.3 inches, the Camaro’s wheelbase is 2.5 inches shorter than that of the G8, and overall length is 6.5 inches shorter than the Pontiac from Oz. Also, the Camaro team moved the front wheels forward 3.0 inches (part of the Zeta II program), and the coupe’s 63.7-inch front track is an inch wider than the G8’s, as is its overall width—at 75.5 inches, it’s a smidge narrower than the otherwise much bigger Challenger.

Like the G8, the Camaro uses struts up front and a multilink arrangement at the rear. However, the engine rides an inch further toward the front, and the steering rack sits ahead of the front axle. Chevy will offer 18-, 19-, and 20-inch wheel choices for the Camaro, but the tires that wrap these rims will share a common rolling diameter—28.7 inches. This touch, new for a GM car, keeps the wheel wells nicely filled and also makes for simple speedometer calibration.


The battery stows in the trunk to enhance weight distribution, which Chevy reports as 52/48. Three trim levels will be offered: LS, LT, and SS. Curb weights range from an estimated 3741 pounds for an LT V-6 manual to 3913 for an SS V-8 automatic.

Which brings us to powertrains. A 300-hp, direct-injection 3.6-liter, DOHC 24-valve V-6 with variable valve timing will be standard in the LS and LT models, while the Camaro SS will be available with one of two 6.2-liter pushrod V-8s. Camaro SS's with an automatic tranny get the 400-hp L99, while manual-transmission cars get the 422-hp LS3—we'd say 22 extra horses is a fine reason to opt to row your own gears. The L99 features cylinder-deactivation.

No one at Chevy will discuss the rumor of a possible future turbo four. Ditto hybrids. Fuel economy for the V-6 is being reported as 26 mpg highway, while Chevy claims as high as 23 mpg on the highway for the V-8. Decent figures, especially considering the available power, but they fall far short of the lofty numbers many consumers expect these days.

The six will come with an Aisin six-speed manual or a GM 6L50 six-speed Hydramatic also used in the Cadillac CTS. V-8 transmissions will be a Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual, essentially the same gearbox employed in the Corvette, or a GM 6L80 six-speed automatic.

What kind of performance can we expect from the bad-boy pony? The Camaro kids weren’t ready to talk specifics yet but were willing to say they expect their car to be quicker than the Challenger SRT8 (0 to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds, 13.3 at 108 mph in the quarter-mile), and further, that it’ll deliver the same kind of exemplary dynamics that distinguish the G8, except more so.

Like the exterior, the inner Camaro revives some sense of yesteryear, but its furnishings are thoroughly modern. Credit a design team headed by Jeff Perkins.

The deeply bolstered bucket seats are both supportive and comfortable, the instruments feature a bluish illumination that would have prompted UFO alerts back in ’69, and the steering wheel has the array of auxiliary switches for audio and cruise control that we take for granted today. One distinctly retro touch is the quartet of small gauges mounted just ahead of the shifter. Three of them provide info that was common in the ’60s but rare today—oil pressure, oil temperature, and ammeter. The fourth is a readout for torque. Torque? Yes, torque.

An available RS appearance package can be added to the mid-level LT and the top-spec SS, and nabs HID headlamps, a spoiler, unique taillamps, and 20-inch wheels.

The materials in our primary photo subject, which we expect to be the basic Camaro, are high quality, and the list of standard equipment appears to be extensive. The word “basic” doesn’t really seem relevant, and chief engineer Al Oppenheiser admits that Camaro pricing will “be more expensive than Mustang.” How much more expensive obviously remains to be seen. But we’ll make this fearless forecast: With 300 horsepower and Zeta II responses, the new V-6 version figures to be the performance bargain in the Camaro corral, as well as neo-ponydom at large.


Go
2010 Chevrolet Camaro - Specs

(continued)



VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe or convertible

ESTIMATED BASE PRICE: $25,000

ENGINES*: DOHC 24-valve 3.6-liter V-6, 300 hp, 273 lb-ft; pushrod 16-valve 6.2-liter V-8, 400–422 hp, 395–408 lb-ft

TRANSMISSIONS: 6-speed automatic with manumatic shifting, 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 112.3 in Length: 190.4 in Width: 75.5 in Height: 54.2 in
Curb weight: 3750–3900 lb

PERFORMANCE (C/D EST, V-8 ENGINES):
Zero to 60 mph: 4.8–5.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3–13.9 sec

PROJECTED FUEL ECONOMY (C/D EST):
EPA city driving: 15–17 mpg
EPA highway driving: 23–26 mpg

*Horsepower and torque figures are manufacturer’s estimates.
i hope this is for the V8. where the heck do they get those numbers?
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:56 PM   #2
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What do you think it'll be priced at? Take a guess.

That's what they did
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:29 PM   #3
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$25,000 for the V6? Hahaha, Challenger and Mustang will have this thing eating out of the palm of their hands if that's the case.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:34 PM   #4
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All that info was printed in other magazines almost word for word. It's amazing how much bad information gets put out (referring to price). People that aren't in the know (moreso than the magazines) are going to look at 25 grand and be (well I can get a mustang for 5 grand cheaper) and won't even give the Camaro another thought after picking up their stang next week. I can't say that I'm outraged, but more than a little irked is the truth.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:46 PM   #5
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The 3.6 liter out of the CTS is a SMOKIN engine. If somebody wants a Mustang(garbage) with its crappy 6 cylinder to save $3-4k then let them. The RS 3.6 liter with a manual will smoke a 6 cylinder garbage Mustang.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:48 PM   #6
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why are all of these car mag's testing the v6? why havent they had pictures of the ss in ay mags yet?
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:21 PM   #7
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Maybe not finished with the bumper?
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen View Post
why are all of these car mag's testing the v6? why havent they had pictures of the ss in ay mags yet?
I haven't noticed any SS information yet, other that what's already been reported on this site, LLN, Autoblog, and Jalopcrap. I'm waiting too
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JEFF2010SSMANUAL View Post
The 3.6 liter out of the CTS is a SMOKIN engine. If somebody wants a Mustang(garbage) with its crappy 6 cylinder to save $3-4k then let them. The RS 3.6 liter with a manual will smoke a 6 cylinder garbage Mustang.
lol, i guess you missed the part where the v6 mustang starts at 19k and the gt starts at 26. If that is really the base price of the v6, chevy is gonna have a problem. if the ss is around 30k even or less, i'll still buy one, but the average consumer will look at the fact that the v8 mustang is 1k more than the v6 camaro and say...what the hell?
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:45 PM   #10
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Funny thing -- all these articles have 'ideas' of price -- but I have not yet seen any of them in our meetings.

Pricing has not been set -- but I can tell you that $25,000 is a very bad guess!

Look at the competition...............
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Funny thing -- all these articles have 'ideas' of price -- but I have not yet seen any of them in our meetings.

Pricing has not been set -- but I can tell you that $25,000 is a very bad guess!

Look at the competition...............
... enough said.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Funny thing -- all these articles have 'ideas' of price -- but I have not yet seen any of them in our meetings.

Pricing has not been set -- but I can tell you that $25,000 is a very bad guess!

Look at the competition...............
You haven't discovered that Shunt is weaing a "wire" yet?

LOL!

If you guys get the V6 out in the $19K-$21K range then you are going to be doing some serious selling!!! I hope this is the right range because you will be making quite a bold statement about the future of GM and putting all the import brands on notice!!!!

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Old 08-04-2008, 07:03 PM   #13
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... enough said.
I would love to see how we are going to be able to sell a 300 HP Camaro for less than a V6 Malibu that starts around $26k. Every component on the Camaro is an upgrade over the Malibu.

I just don't see it happening. I sure hope that I am wrong.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:05 PM   #14
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I would love to see how we are going to be able to sell a 300 HP Camaro for less than a V6 Malibu that starts around $26k. Every component on the Camaro is an upgrade over the Malibu.

I just don't see it happening. I sure hope that I am wrong.
The Malibu has $4000 worth of extra doors!
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Funny thing -- all these articles have 'ideas' of price -- but I have not yet seen any of them in our meetings.

Pricing has not been set -- but I can tell you that $25,000 is a very bad guess!

Look at the competition...............

i had doubts when i saw 25k thanks for clearing that up fbodfather
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Funny thing -- all these articles have 'ideas' of price -- but I have not yet seen any of them in our meetings.

Pricing has not been set -- but I can tell you that $25,000 is a very bad guess!

Look at the competition...............
i think it is great, just as everybody starts to flip out about stuff.

here comes the father to spread words of wisdom, and the sea calms down.

i do have a question..... if $25k is a bad guess for the v6 then is it a good one for the v8?
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:13 PM   #17
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I can't wait any longer!!!! I want my Camaro now.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:21 PM   #18
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Dodge didn't price for competition but hopefully GM does.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by KarlChev View Post
I would love to see how we are going to be able to sell a 300 HP Camaro for less than a V6 Malibu that starts around $26k. Every component on the Camaro is an upgrade over the Malibu.

I just don't see it happening. I sure hope that I am wrong.
The Malibu is in a diff class anyone looking for a Malibu isnt going to say man i can get the v6 Camaro for less and then buy one, but then again i could be wrong. Besides the V6 Malibu is the top of line so you would have to compare the top of line Camaro to it V8 SS.

If i remeber correctly on the revealing GM said it would be priced to compete with the stang (right or wrong)
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:18 PM   #20
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Dodge didn't price for competition but hopefully GM does.
I'm sure they will. Dodge targeted the older crowd with the Charger/Challenger, but GM and Ford are targeting a much broader audience. Besides, if anyone should know the importance of competitive pricing, it'd be GM seeing as how the lack thereof sunk the Camaro last time.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlChev View Post
I would love to see how we are going to be able to sell a 300 HP Camaro for less than a V6 Malibu that starts around $26k. Every component on the Camaro is an upgrade over the Malibu.

I just don't see it happening. I sure hope that I am wrong.
You're still thinking too....too...I dunno. To much about the money, I think. Not all vehicles are made equal, you know...for instance, how is it that a Corvette engine can make it into a Camaro for under 30k, you know what I mean?

Broaden your view a little bit; it's not too hard to imagine how GM can offer this car at the prices they intend to.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:41 AM   #22
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You're still thinking too....too...I dunno. To much about the money, I think. Not all vehicles are made equal, you know...for instance, how is it that a Corvette engine can make it into a Camaro for under 30k, you know what I mean?

Broaden your view a little bit; it's not too hard to imagine how GM can offer this car at the prices they intend to.

I don't think they can offer a Camaro with a Corvette motor for under $30k. I think it will come in around $32k.


A 2LT Malibu with a V6 starts at $26k. An LTZ with V6 is around $28k. I would be shocked to see the V6 maro under $25k. A Cobalt SS is $23k. No way is the Camaro less price than the Cobalt SS.

Prove me wrong GM, PLEASE!
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:46 AM   #23
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I don't think they can offer a Camaro with a Corvette motor for under $30k. I think it will come in around $32k.


A 2LT Malibu with a V6 starts at $26k. An LTZ with V6 is around $28k. I would be shocked to see the V6 maro under $25k. A Cobalt SS is $23k. No way is the Camaro less price than the Cobalt SS.

Prove me wrong GM, PLEASE!
wow someone doesnt know who fbodfather is! He said that the v6 camaro is a bad guess at 25.000
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:50 AM   #24
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You're still thinking too....too...I dunno. To much about the money, I think. Not all vehicles are made equal, you know...for instance, how is it that a Corvette engine can make it into a Camaro for under 30k, you know what I mean?

Broaden your view a little bit; it's not too hard to imagine how GM can offer this car at the prices they intend to.
Do we know for sure that we're getting a Corvette engine in the Camaro for under $30K?
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Funny thing -- all these articles have 'ideas' of price -- but I have not yet seen any of them in our meetings.

Pricing has not been set -- but I can tell you that $25,000 is a very bad guess!

Look at the competition...............
That's a relief.
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