Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Fabberge
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V8

Forced Induction - V8 V8 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-12-2010, 03:39 PM   #76
will69camaro
 
will69camaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 1969 and 2010 Camaros
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 515
Basically what it's doing is he's taking formulas you learned in school and going by known values to determine the ideal temperature of the air entering the engine (blower outlet). Since that assumes 100% adiabatic efficiency, he's accounting for that in the efficiency calculation where you can assign a percentage probably taken from previous experimental data and assign it to change the ideal Temperature into an actual temperature. Using THAT temperature into the density ratio using degrees in Rankin (R).

Most these models are looking at the engine as essentially a big "air pump."

That explanation above in his post is pretty good for generalizing the way the blower makes the power and the ability to show the % increase in power.
will69camaro is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:02 PM   #77
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
Yeah........What he said..
Quote:
Originally Posted by will69camaro View Post
Basically what it's doing is he's taking formulas you learned in school and going by known values to determine the ideal temperature of the air entering the engine (blower outlet). Since that assumes 100% adiabatic efficiency, he's accounting for that in the efficiency calculation where you can assign a percentage probably taken from previous experimental data and assign it to change the ideal Temperature into an actual temperature. Using THAT temperature into the density ratio using degrees in Rankin (R).

Most these models are looking at the engine as essentially a big "air pump."

That explanation above in his post is pretty good for generalizing the way the blower makes the power and the ability to show the % increase in power.
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:05 PM   #78
will69camaro
 
will69camaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 1969 and 2010 Camaros
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 515
It gets more difficult if you start trying to explain where certain things come from but for now just believe the formulas. Basic math after that
will69camaro is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:09 PM   #79
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,043
Good enough for me. I'll just take the word from the engineers
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 04:13 PM   #80
Z_Rocks

 
Drives: a Jet :-)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
I'm gaining more appreciation for these twin screws I've heard so much about in the past
I met a girl a while ago who was really into "Twin Screws". When I asked her why, she replied, "That's the best Forced Induction"
Z_Rocks is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 06:30 PM   #81
Speed74SS

 
Speed74SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 LPE 650+ CTS-V
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 1,640
So what recommended psi will the KB 2.8 base kit be running at? To get the higher hp out of these, at what point do you need forged internals and at what psi to be on the safe side? Sorry if this has been asked already - the engineering talk has my eyes crossed
__________________
'10 CTS-V : LPE 650+ Package 587hp / 582tq

2.55 Upper / 8.6 Lower / ID850's / Kooks Longtubes / New Era CAI
Speed74SS is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 07:13 PM   #82
nfamous209
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro z28
Join Date: May 2008
Location: patterson, ca
Posts: 413
Send a message via AIM to nfamous209 Send a message via Yahoo to nfamous209
all i know is as far as the KB kits for the c5's go they werent performing like they stated. lots of restrictions in the intake i believe, its been reworked twice i believe and still wasnt performing. lots of KB kits sold and i have yet to see a track proven car, or one hitting 700+whp on forged motor.

personally i wouldnt buy a KB due to horrible customer service. no e-mail replies and contacting them by phone they show no interest in helping if they dont have a kit available already for the car they wont help. thats why whipple and maggie's will always be first choice, customer service OWNS.
nfamous209 is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 07:30 PM   #83
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
100% inaccurate.

There are more 700rwhp KB GM cars tan I can count. Yes, the original inlet design was horrible on the C5. Hence the reason we have spent years, along with 10's of thousands of dollars correcting it. The new inlet is just as solid as the mammoth for the Mustang. It flows 1602cfm. We completely changed everything. There is not 1 thing on this kit that shares similarity with the C5 Corvette.

You are correct, back in 2005-2006 KB was having horrible issues with their phone answering skills. They were Ford guys, what did you expect... But since that time, KB has begun pretty much sending all tech questions to me, and I handle them. I have already received a few from this board today who called them. But getting tech issues handled in a timely manner with a KB GM car, is a thing of the past.

Maggie has great cstomer service, I wont deny that at all.

But when our customers are sitting at the end of 1320 feet, Ill be sure to have them on speed dial so when the other car shows up, he can b!tch to them as to why he spent the same money, and got his booty handed to him.. (Just Playin)



Quote:
Originally Posted by nfamous209 View Post
all i know is as far as the KB kits for the c5's go they werent performing like they stated. lots of restrictions in the intake i believe, its been reworked twice i believe and still wasnt performing. lots of KB kits sold and i have yet to see a track proven car, or one hitting 700+whp on forged motor.

personally i wouldnt buy a KB due to horrible customer service. no e-mail replies and contacting them by phone they show no interest in helping if they dont have a kit available already for the car they wont help. thats why whipple and maggie's will always be first choice, customer service OWNS.
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 07:36 PM   #84
nfamous209
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro z28
Join Date: May 2008
Location: patterson, ca
Posts: 413
Send a message via AIM to nfamous209 Send a message via Yahoo to nfamous209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
100% inaccurate.

There are more 700rwhp KB GM cars tan I can count. Yes, the original inlet design was horrible on the C5. Hence the reason we have spent years, along with 10's of thousands of dollars correcting it. The new inlet is just as solid as the mammoth for the Mustang. It flows 1602cfm. We completely changed everything. There is not 1 thing on this kit that shares similarity with the C5 Corvette.

You are correct, back in 2005-2006 KB was having horrible issues with their phone answering skills. They were Ford guys, what did you expect... But since that time, KB has begun pretty much sending all tech questions to me, and I handle them. I have already received a few from this board today who called them. But getting tech issues handled in a timely manner with a KB GM car, is a thing of the past.

Maggie has great cstomer service, I wont deny that at all.

But when our customers are sitting at the end of 1320 feet, Ill be sure to have them on speed dial so when the other car shows up, he can b!tch to them as to why he spent the same money, and got his booty handed to him.. (Just Playin)
Funny, I'm a member on a few LSX forums, and the highest dyno i've seen was close to 700 which was nice, but didnt surpass the 700 mark. but hey each to there own. plus Whipple and Maggie are both local to me, and i'll keep business in Cali.

but yeah i'd like to see these 700+whp KB cars LSX powered, with motor specs, vids, dyno sheets. and hell the super fast seat in the pants crazy insane 1320 vids, that you claim.

Last edited by nfamous209; 01-13-2010 at 01:38 AM.
nfamous209 is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 07:37 PM   #85
ls7camaro
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 393
Hey, i am building an ls3 with a complete forged assembly looking to get about 700-750whp, would the 3.6 work fine on this setup, or should i just get the 2.8H
ls7camaro is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 07:53 PM   #86
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
Honestly, even the 2.8H will do at that level. What boost are you looking to run?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls7camaro View Post
Hey, i am building an ls3 with a complete forged assembly looking to get about 700-750whp, would the 3.6 work fine on this setup, or should i just get the 2.8H
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:09 PM   #87
Z_Rocks

 
Drives: a Jet :-)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,850
The best part about getting old, is that you learn new things!
Z_Rocks is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:11 PM   #88
ls7camaro
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 393
maybe 14-20
ls7camaro is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:29 PM   #89
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
I'll do one better for you bud, Can you spare a few hours in the day of a week? we can shoot over to KB, and let you drive one.

Let me know, and ill get it taken care of.

But in the mean time, ill post a vid of my personal car.


802rwhp/852rwtq
LS2 402
AFR heads
16 psi
Darn near stock fuel system
KB 2.8H
91 octane



My dyno sheet from this run is on KB's website.

Also G-force out of texas has a few youtube 700+ rwhp videos. I suck at posting them though. I dont know how to put them up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfamous209 View Post
Funny, I'm a member on a few LSX forums, and the highest dyno i've seen was close to 700 which was nice, but didnt surpass the 700 mark. but hey each to there own. plus KB and Maggie are both local to me, and i'll keep business in Cali.

but yeah i'd like to see these 700+whp KB cars LSX powered, with motor specs, vids, dyno sheets. and hell the super fast seat in the pants crazy insane 1320 vids, that you claim.
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:32 PM   #90
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
But in the mean time, ill post a vid of my personal car.


802rwhp/852rwtq
LS2 402
AFR heads
16 psi
Darn near stock fuel system
KB 2.8H
91 octane

Do all Kenne Bell Units whine like that?
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:37 PM   #91
liquidfire350
 
Drives: 2010 Black SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Montgomery, IL
Posts: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Do all Kenne Bell Units whine like that?
I think so, most videos i've seen you can hear it


but I honestly like that sound
liquidfire350 is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:38 PM   #92
Z_Rocks

 
Drives: a Jet :-)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Do all Kenne Bell Units whine like that?
The one Jeff has on his C5 is a different head unit & design than the one for the Camaro. I haven't heard the Camaro yet, but may sound different or more quiet!
Z_Rocks is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:38 PM   #93
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
At 24 thousand rpms they do..

They only sound like that when your really spinning them hard. We were running 16 and 18psi. When running them at 8-10, you dont really hear them. Although I know a few tricks to make them sound that for the guy with low boost, yet wanting to sound like a fighter jet..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Do all Kenne Bell Units whine like that?
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:39 PM   #94
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
Well, yes and no.. we were running the prototype 2.8 on my car. Although everything else is different, te actual rotors/head unit are the same.

But this was NOT the water cooled unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z_Rocks View Post
The one Jeff has on his C5 is a different head unit & design than the one for the Camaro. I haven't heard the Camaro yet, but may sound different or more quiet!
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:40 PM   #95
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
Hey, hit me up again. I think I want you to do our website for us.

Sorry, I just thought of it..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z_Rocks View Post
The one Jeff has on his C5 is a different head unit & design than the one for the Camaro. I haven't heard the Camaro yet, but may sound different or more quiet!
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:40 PM   #96
Z_Rocks

 
Drives: a Jet :-)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
Well, yes and no.. we were running the prototype 2.8 on my car. Although everything else is different, te actual rotors/head unit are the same.

But this was NOT the water cooled unit.
Thanks Jeff!
Z_Rocks is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:42 PM   #97
Z_Rocks

 
Drives: a Jet :-)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
Hey, hit me up again. I think I want you to do our website for us.

Sorry, I just thought of it..
OMG, I was just thinking about that. That's freaky man! I called you and left a message with Jenni but you were probably busy. How is the back doing :-)
Z_Rocks is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:47 PM   #98
Total_Perf_Eng
 
Total_Perf_Eng's Avatar
 
Drives: Corvette
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 509
Send a message via AIM to Total_Perf_Eng
Its freaking killing me.

Call my cell. If you dont have it, call the shop, and tell jen i said to give it to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Z_Rocks View Post
OMG, I was just thinking about that. That's freaky man! I called you and left a message with Jenni but you were probably busy. How is the back doing :-)
Total_Perf_Eng is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:52 PM   #99
Z_Rocks

 
Drives: a Jet :-)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
Its freaking killing me.
Just don't give us another scare attack like you did a while back when you thought you had heart attack in your kitchen. So, what the heck was it, anxiety attack?
Z_Rocks is offline  
Old 01-12-2010, 09:03 PM   #100
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
At 24 thousand rpms they do..

They only sound like that when your really spinning them hard. We were running 16 and 18psi. When running them at 8-10, you dont really hear them. Although I know a few tricks to make them sound that for the guy with low boost, yet wanting to sound like a fighter jet..
Personally, and it's just me I think, I'd like to hear the deep and loud exhaust rather than the supercharger. So that's good to know it's quiet on base applications.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline  
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camaro Product Manager - interview Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 11 04-04-2012 06:10 PM
SEMA Camaro: Yellow Camaro Concept Tran Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 45 09-01-2011 02:19 PM
An interesting Camaro (and GM) story! I just bought my 2010 Camaro! Camarodriver Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions 12 11-28-2010 03:52 PM
GM memo to dealers Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 41 02-04-2010 07:33 PM
Official Camaro Convertible CONCEPT Press Release Tran Camaro Convertible Forum 12 11-18-2009 07:05 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.