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Old 01-11-2010, 05:44 PM   #43
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Not at the moment. The company cutting the housings in europe is only shipping in polish. I could see it much later down the road, but nothing in the immediate. I too prefer black, but one of the things you can do to offset it, is run a black front cover, and black rear inlet. This really breaks up the bling look.


Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidfire350 View Post
Are there any plans on making the 3.6 and 4.2 in black? I'm not really into the polished look.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:13 PM   #44
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What mods are required to fit the 3.6 or 4.2 under the hood?? Will the stock hood work??
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:31 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
Hey All,

Some of you may know our compay from other GM KB products, but some of you may not.

I have been working closely with Kenne Bell since 2004 designing the LS based twin screw kits. We became involved with them on the original C5 kit, and have continued to aid in design and R&D since then.

When it comes to this kit, and the system in general, we are probably the most knowledgeable in the industry. That being said, I will be more than happy to answer pretty much any question yu may have. Chances are, if you call KB, they will refer you to me anyways.

BUT, this kit is a COMPLETE redesign from the ground up. From the lower manifold, to the new patented head unit, to the anxiously awaited redesigned inlet manifold. It carrys nothing from the original C5 kit (For a few reasons.) Lets just say we learned ALOT from that system.

Although originally we had anticipated a final release on 1/1/10, we have had to push back the release until right around 2/1/10. This has nothing to do with the kit itself, we are just waiting on a few shipments of some gears, and 100 of the inlet manifolds. But the lkit is 100% complete, and the car is actually sitting on the dyno. The instructions are written, and final. We did have to make a few changes for the automatic at the last minute, but that has already been addressed.

I will be installing the very first production unit around the first week of Feb, as well as showing you guys the 3.xH on the dyno. We have a purpose built 416 stroker that was built to pop... What do I mean??? well, were gonna kep turning the wick up until she blows. .Were gonna start with the 2.8, then go to the 3 and 4L head units. we want to show the capabilities of each unit in a purpose built application.

I can tell you this though. In the production kit, in order to keep the bost low, we had to run a much larger pulley. We were seeing 600rwhp when properly tuned, on a STOCK setup. Well, the pulley was so freaking large, that it was hitting the hood, so we had to run a slightly smaller pulley. This upped our boost higher than we wanted for our "Manufacturers Tune" kit. So in order to make the kit completely safe, we had to detune the spark tables, and a few other areas. This allows us to run a safe street tune, and clear the stock hood.

What does this mean?? It means with a few keystrokes of a compitent tuner, you will have a much more powerfull car by doing NOTHING.

Although pricing has not been publicly released, it is slated to run very very close to the other kits (Challenger kit). So expect them to retail in the mid 6K range. You CAN upgrade to the 3.XH, for a small fee. It should run right around 400-500 plus polishing. The larger head units are currently not avail in black, so if you had a black 2.8H, and wanted the 3 or 4L head unit, then it would be the cost of the polish, plus the upgrade. Hope that clarifys a few things.

Be looking out for new dyno sheets very soon, along with videos.

Please feel free to ask any technical question you like. Also, if you are interested in having one installed, hit us up. Theres no better place in the country, then the place that helps design them.

Both my company and Kenne Bell are in the process of becoming supporting vendors of this site, so dont hesitate to let us know your opinions. We will do our best to help in any way possible.

Jeff
Total Performance Engineering
WOW, Thankyou, very valuable information.
I had a couple questions specific to my application, but likely to be of interest to other camaro owners?

- You mentioned some last minute changes to the Automatic version; can you elaborate as I have the 2SS L99 car?

- What’s the boost for the stock Automatic application, and if in the future I wish to see 12psi with a mild cam, (already have long tubes and a tune) would I be better off considering the 3.6L unit? I mean there must be a place were you move away from the 2.8s sweet spot and into that of the 3.6. Where might that be? Does the upgrade to the 3.6 factor in a larger belt drive? (is it required?)

- You mentioned a cooling system to equalize head temperature. Does the coolant run through a heat exchanger, or just circulate to equalize the temperature across the head unit? (I see the logic in this, you can keep closer tolerances between the rotors and housing else the back end might have more expansion than the parts in the front.)

- With my modifications (long tubes, and proposed blower cam), should I consider upgrading my TB?

- It was interesting that you mentioned the need to run a smaller pulley (higher boost) for clearance and then detune at the computer to keep the combination streatable. What boost does this turn out to be, whats excluded in the tuner kit (which I assume I need with cam and exhaust)?

Thanks again, I wish I lived in Vegas.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:44 PM   #46
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You will not get the 4.2 to fit unles you plan on a serious hood change. That head unit is really for only the hardcore racer, or the street rod guy. It is useless on anything streetable. The 3.6 will be more than capable for everything up to about 1300-1400rwhp, and 450cid.

The 3.6 is still being "Massaged" but will most likely require a hood swap/trim also. We are working on a few alternatives, but its most likely gonna fall under the "Hood Needed" catagory as well. But surprisingly, its not much larger than the 2.8H.

Please keep in mind that the 2.8H will FAR surpass any normal customers needs. The 2.8 has already been ran to just under 1200rwhp, so it is definately no slouch. This is kinda how we determine what headunit you need.

Stock 364cid motor, or forged low/moderate boost= 2.6
Stroker motor, or high boost (15psi+)= 2.8H
Large stroker motor (Above 427cid) or REALLY high boost= 3.6H
Pure freaking insanity, ALL OUT drag car, or 500+cid = 4.xH

The 2.6 has been taken to just under 800rwhp, and 798rwtq. The 2.8 has been taken to just under 1200rwhp (On ford Motor). The 3.6H has already seen multiple 1150+rwhp runs, and its still in prototyping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanwilliams View Post
What mods are required to fit the 3.6 or 4.2 under the hood?? Will the stock hood work??
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:21 PM   #47
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do you have a website to order them from?
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:57 PM   #48
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Being that were not completely set up with this forum as a vendor yet, i'd prefer to wait at giving that stuff out. We have sent in their required docs, so im assuming by tomorrow we can provide that stuff.
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do you have a website to order them from?
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:58 PM   #49
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Quote:
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Man, what are you doing up in SD at 4:05 AM reading car articles?
Yes, the article was a bit biased, but still KB and Whipple are excellent PD S/C. I wish I could have one of each (Maggie, KN and Whipple)
Lol - have to head out on the road early this morning.....and I am addicted to this site.

I love the information on this site and all the S/C options. It's fun to see all these coming out and compared on our cars. The KB's have always seemed like good blowers and I have heard a lot about them. I love the Maggie that I have on my car and can't wait to see the KB's running too. I also love seeing the different S/C options and "friendly" comparisons.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:05 PM   #50
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I expect to have these systems listed on my website tomorrrow sometime. KB has some great kits out there and I am sure this will be no different.

If anybody needs more info, please feel free to contact me, I will do my best to hook you up.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:17 PM   #51
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Total, what effect did detuning the engine have on efficiency/longevity, if any?
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:44 AM   #52
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So I know Eaton makes the rotors for the TVS-series SCs out there, and I know twin screws are a different animal, altogether, but is there only one company that makes these rotors for other twin screw companies too, or does your European manufacturer make these for you only? I think I recall another twin screw company that made their own rotors, but I'll be darned if I ever read the whole story.

I also wanted to mention that I believe it's the current MM&FF that has the really good write-up on the 3.6 KB. It's a pretty good write-up and just gives an idea on the benefits of this new design. Also, the article I referrenced earlier was from 5.0 Mustang, from a few months ago. I did mention some things in the article that I questioned, however, I think it, too, is at least a good referrence, and shows another supercharger options we'll have for Camaro too.

Did I just admit I buy Mustang magazines?...
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:55 AM   #53
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[Check out this months issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords. They install one on a Super Snake with before and after Dyno pulls. Sounds like the 3.6 is the deal.
Both were tested at 23PSI, the 3.6 made 76 more RWHP. At 15 PSI, the 3.6 made 31 more RWHP.

This is from a forum post on teamshelby. Is this true? at the same psi the 3.6 will make noticealby more HP than the 2.8H?
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:58 AM   #54
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None whatsoever. Although excessive detuning can lead to certain ill effects, this is nowhere near that area. Keep in mind that forced induction (boost) is very very sensitive to spark. By just removing a couple degrees of spark at WOT is enough to eliminate any chances of failure.
Our WOT spark table on the base tune is 16*. Couple that with the poroper WOT fuel table, and there is no issue at all.

The reason this had to be done, was because the 2.8H on a Camaro already uses a MASSIVE 4" blower pulley in order to keep the boost at the proper level. We cant go any bigger.

Jim B and I were on the phone last night, and bustin up about a few things.. Imagine this.. If you put a 3.6 onto a STOCK Camaro, and tried to keep the boost level the 2.8H has (like the base kit), we would have to run a 5.75" blower pulley.. The blower pulley would be almost as large as the crank pulley..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Total, what effect did detuning the engine have on efficiency/longevity, if any?
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:09 PM   #55
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This is why KB is beginning to love Camaro guys..

See, if you talk to a mustang guy, they want their cars to go as fast as possible. They dont sit there and complain about how much "Bling" it has, or wether or not the hood changes the aerodynamic affects of the car. Unfortunately, in other application of GM cars, they care more about how pretty the hood looks, or wether or not they add 2.1lbs of weight, and could care a less that the car now has 2 to 3 times the power.. We all feel that the new Camaro, and its owners will finally appreciate what the mustang guys have been enjoying for years.

The answer to your question is a little more difficult though. No, there is not only 1 company that makes twin screw rotors. That being said, KB doesnt divulge any more info than that. I can say that the rotors that KB has made for them are propriatary, and not avail for any other company, but other than that, its not something that is made avail. In the past, it was a different story, but a while back they broke away from the mass produced setups, and went private. A trained eye can see the differences in the head units, but most dont see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
So I know Eaton makes the rotors for the TVS-series SCs out there, and I know twin screws are a different animal, altogether, but is there only one company that makes these rotors for other twin screw companies too, or does your European manufacturer make these for you only? I think I recall another twin screw company that made their own rotors, but I'll be darned if I ever read the whole story.

I also wanted to mention that I believe it's the current MM&FF that has the really good write-up on the 3.6 KB. It's a pretty good write-up and just gives an idea on the benefits of this new design. Also, the article I referrenced earlier was from 5.0 Mustang, from a few months ago. I did mention some things in the article that I questioned, however, I think it, too, is at least a good referrence, and shows another supercharger options we'll have for Camaro too.

Did I just admit I buy Mustang magazines?...
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:17 PM   #56
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All superchargers are in the game now. Let the blower games begin I personally like the top mount motors.
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