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Old 01-11-2010, 11:52 AM   #1
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Question NY Dealerships and Leasing

Hi Guys-- new to the forums here. Love the insight and expertise.

I currently have a dealer's Internet Sales Manager and her Sales/Dealership manager looking into the pricing and availability of a 1LT or 2LT/RS with automatic for me.

Basically, the car I want is the one found in the pictures section on this site/forum under Victory Red. Looks like it was part of a raffle .

I currently lease a Mitsu with an MSRP at about $22k. I put down $3,000 and pay $256 a month. My mother (who has excellent credit) co-signed my lease. I am a college grad with a good full-time job, and pay my lease and student loans on time, also giving me (what I assume is) strong credit.

For a new Camaro with an MSRP of only $5-$9 thousand more than my current car, is it unrealistic to think I can put maybe $3,500 down and pay maybe $350 a month?

I just saw an ad in the paper this weekend for a new Nissan Maxima, listed MSRP of $34,000... asking for $229 a month after a $3,000 down payment with excellent credit. I read the fine print (trust me, I'm educated in legalese) and found nothing unusual. So at least my numbers seam feasible.

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Old 01-11-2010, 12:08 PM   #2
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welcome mackvenom1!!

I bought a new 2001 Mitsubishi Galant for my wife (ex-wife now) and the car ended up costing me like $23K, interest rate was 2.4 (no downpayment) and my payments were $380 a month. In other words, I don't think it would be possible unless you give a bigger down payment.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackvenom1 View Post
Hi Guys-- new to the forums here. Love the insight and expertise.

I currently have a dealer's Internet Sales Manager and her Sales/Dealership manager looking into the pricing and availability of a 1LT or 2LT/RS with automatic for me.

Basically, the car I want is the one found in the pictures section on this site/forum under Victory Red. Looks like it was part of a raffle .

I currently lease a Mitsu with an MSRP at about $22k. I put down $3,000 and pay $256 a month. My mother (who has excellent credit) co-signed my lease. I am a college grad with a good full-time job, and pay my lease and student loans on time, also giving me (what I assume is) strong credit.

For a new Camaro with an MSRP of only $5-$9 thousand more than my current car, is it unrealistic to think I can put maybe $3,500 down and pay maybe $350 a month?

I just saw an ad in the paper this weekend for a new Nissan Maxima, listed MSRP of $34,000... asking for $229 a month after a $3,000 down payment with excellent credit. I read the fine print (trust me, I'm educated in legalese) and found nothing unusual. So at least my numbers seam feasible.

Almost certain that won't be possible. GM's lease rates are insanely high right now and you need almost perfect credit. There are other threads about this and in those, a couple dealers here on the forums have said that they have looked into this for other customers and have found the payments to be the same or higher then if they would buy the car outright. If that holds true, you will be looking at $450-$500 a month with such a small down payment.
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Old 01-11-2010, 01:01 PM   #4
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Thanks guys. If no dealer was willing or able to bring down the prices, then it would stand to reason that I should just finance and own the thing, wouldn't it?

My only issue with the whole situation is that it seems there are other cars out there for more money that are leasing for less... and because the economy MollyWhomped GMAC, they are paying the American people back with awful lease rates.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mackvenom1 View Post

I just saw an ad in the paper this weekend for a new Nissan Maxima, listed MSRP of $34,000... asking for $229 a month after a $3,000 down payment with excellent credit. I read the fine print (trust me, I'm educated in legalese) and found nothing unusual. So at least my numbers seam feasible.

By the way, I meant this was a LEASE price advertised... NOT a FINANCE price to own.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:09 PM   #6
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either way I think it's impossible without a large down payment!
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:10 PM   #7
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Can anybody answer "why?" Why can I do this for other cars, but it seems unlikely for this one?
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:24 PM   #8
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Can anybody answer "why?" Why can I do this for other cars, but it seems unlikely for this one?
I would assume because the dealers don't have to......

Look at it this way, Why offer a lease on a car when you can sell as many as you can get outright? Granted dealers are starting to sit on inventory now, at least in the snowbelt that is, but otherwise they move the camaro in short order.

Leasing is another way to sell a car. You basically pay for the depreciated value of the car. Leasing is a way for people to get a lot more car than they can afford, but it is also good if you like to get new stuff every 3 years or so and you don't put many miles on.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mackvenom1 View Post
Hi Guys-- new to the forums here. Love the insight and expertise.

I currently have a dealer's Internet Sales Manager and her Sales/Dealership manager looking into the pricing and availability of a 1LT or 2LT/RS with automatic for me.

Basically, the car I want is the one found in the pictures section on this site/forum under Victory Red. Looks like it was part of a raffle .

I currently lease a Mitsu with an MSRP at about $22k. I put down $3,000 and pay $256 a month. My mother (who has excellent credit) co-signed my lease. I am a college grad with a good full-time job, and pay my lease and student loans on time, also giving me (what I assume is) strong credit.

For a new Camaro with an MSRP of only $5-$9 thousand more than my current car, is it unrealistic to think I can put maybe $3,500 down and pay maybe $350 a month?

I just saw an ad in the paper this weekend for a new Nissan Maxima, listed MSRP of $34,000... asking for $229 a month after a $3,000 down payment with excellent credit. I read the fine print (trust me, I'm educated in legalese) and found nothing unusual. So at least my numbers seam feasible.

That Nissan is through a lease option. 229 x 72 = 16488 + 3500 = 19988.

GM does offer a lease, but highly recommend against not leasing. Best thing is to figure for every 10K in car figure right around 200 monthly payments. If you have good credit then figure 180 for every 10K. Realistically you will be looking at 400-550 for the car you are looking at.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:00 PM   #10
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I understand that a dealer makes more money on a lease... so why wouldn't they want to lease me the car? Even though my payments would be lower than financing, don't they make it back after I return the car to them?

I also understand that leasing in the long term costs me more money, but in the short term, it's really the only way for me to afford any car.

Leasing is supposed to be less money for monthly payments as opposed to financing the car. I just wonder why I haven't heard of that being the case for the Camaro.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackvenom1 View Post
I understand that a dealer makes more money on a lease... so why wouldn't they want to lease me the car? Even though my payments would be lower than financing, don't they make it back after I return the car to them?

I also understand that leasing in the long term costs me more money, but in the short term, it's really the only way for me to afford any car.

Leasing is supposed to be less money for monthly payments as opposed to financing the car. I just wonder why I haven't heard of that being the case for the Camaro.
Financing or leasing, the dealer makes pretty much the same. As far as why manufacturers have gone away from leasing, it is pretty simple.

Residual Values of car are fluxating to much for a Manufacturer to accurately figure what a vehicle will be worth in 3-5 years. Because of this, they are lowballing the residual value. Therefor you are greater amount for the wear and tear of a vehicle. In many cases now, I have shown my customers how purchasing a vehicle actually has lower monthly payments vs leasing a vehicle because of the residual values.

In all honesty, and this is my opinion so please no one take offense, if someone can't afford the monthly payments for a 3-4 and at most 5 year contract, then the person is looking at to much of a vehicle. This is the main reason why we entered the recession that we are in. Banks had to get bailed out by the government, because people were defaulting on their loans. It was shown that the longer the loan the higher chance for default. That's why very few banks will finance more than 72 months. Banks will also not finance to much over MSRP of a new vehicle now either. I remember 3 years ago a guy financed 140% of MSRP and had a loan term of 96 months. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackvenom1 View Post
I understand that a dealer makes more money on a lease... so why wouldn't they want to lease me the car? Even though my payments would be lower than financing, don't they make it back after I return the car to them?

I also understand that leasing in the long term costs me more money, but in the short term, it's really the only way for me to afford any car.

Leasing is supposed to be less money for monthly payments as opposed to financing the car. I just wonder why I haven't heard of that being the case for the Camaro.
Keep one thing in mind-> with excellent credit you can buy with an interest rate of 3.9-4.9

Lease rates (from what I've seen) are more in the 8-9% range with the same credit history. Part of the problem is the residual. Don't quote me on it but it seems to me someone said they're using 48% after 3 years. (Car is worth 48% of what the sticker was 3 years later).

Examples:

25k financed BUY 5-yr note @ 4.5%-> $466/month

3 yr lease @ 8.5% w/48% residual-> $482/month
3 yr lease @ 4.5% w/48% residual-> $412/month

Now, if the residual was 60%...

3 yr lease @ 8.5% w/60% residual-> $400/month
3 yr lease @ 4.5% w/60% residual-> $325/month

It's all a numbers game.

For leasing you need to know:
Cap (discounted price + assignment fee)
MSRP (for residual calcs)
Residual % after lease term
Interest rate (they'll give you some BS "money factor"- just multiply that by 2400 to get your rate)

Confused yet
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jrboyd_1980 View Post

This is the main reason why we entered the recession that we are in. Banks had to get bailed out by the government, because people were defaulting on their loans. It was shown that the longer the loan the higher chance for default. That's why very few banks will finance more than 72 months. Banks will also not finance to much over MSRP of a new vehicle now either. I remember 3 years ago a guy financed 140% of MSRP and had a loan term of 96 months. Just my 2 cents.
I'm not saying I'm going to get what I can't afford, then default after a few months or years... that's why we're in a recession. OR, people buy something 100% using a credit card, then have to pay THEM back plus loan-shark-like interest for something they shouldn't have gotten in the first place.

I already know much about this car and cars in general. I'm hoping to learn much more that I can about the math to be a better customer and negotiator. Like anything else in my life, if I can't afford it, I won't get it. That's why I drive my P.O.S. falling apart, dealerships closing, terrible service, no horsepower, giant-wing-sporting, Lancer GTS [POS].
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:17 PM   #14
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Keep one thing in mind-> with excellent credit you can buy with an interest rate of 3.9-4.9

Lease rates (from what I've seen) are more in the 8-9% range with the same credit history. Part of the problem is the residual. Don't quote me on it but it seems to me someone said they're using 48% after 3 years. (Car is worth 48% of what the sticker was 3 years later).

Examples:

25k financed BUY 5-yr note @ 4.5%-> $466/month

3 yr lease @ 8.5% w/48% residual-> $482/month
3 yr lease @ 4.5% w/48% residual-> $412/month

Now, if the residual was 60%...

3 yr lease @ 8.5% w/60% residual-> $400/month
3 yr lease @ 4.5% w/60% residual-> $325/month

It's all a numbers game.

For leasing you need to know:
Cap (discounted price + assignment fee)
MSRP (for residual calcs)
Residual % after lease term
Interest rate (they'll give you some BS "money factor"- just multiply that by 2400 to get your rate)

Confused yet
Hahaha yes, a bit ... but not completely. Were you factoring in a down payment on your calculations, or was that all assuming $0 down?

Let's assume the lesser residual (40%), and a $4,000 down payment on a $29,000 car. Do we get closer to my wheelhouse (love that pun for cars)?

I'm hoping maybe there's a dealer on here who can shed a little insight as well. Seems like our allstar dealers on this board aren't in my neck of the woods.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:02 PM   #15
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The main reason Camaro leases are un attractive is because they are not supported by GM. Currently the best way to lease a Chevrolet is through US Bank, but only on select models (Cobalt, Malibu, Impala, HHR, Equinox, and Traverse). These models are supported by GM with rates, residual values, and rebates. All other vehicles are not supported, so US Bank decides the program, not the dealer or the manufacturer.

A quick example is the Traverse compared to the Equinox. The Traverse has a higher MSRP but the lease payments will be very similiar to a comparable Equinox.

Here's why (based on 1LT AWD models)

Equinox Money factor 0.00085 = a rate of 2%
The residual value is 43%
and there is no CCR (cap cost reduction)

Traverse Money factor is 0.0004 = a rate of 0.96%
The residual value is 46%
and there is $1800 in CCR

So in this comparison you can see that the Equinox's rate is higher, residual is lower, and there is no CCR to help lower the payments. Currently the Traverse has the stronger program.

I just put some numbers together on a Camaro 1LT with an automatic transmission MSRP $25,875. A 48 month, 12,000 miles per year lease with a T.O.P (total out of pocket) of $3,000 would land payments right at $399 per month. This was figured at MSRP and includes all NJ taxes and fees.

Hope some of this helps, I have been a member of the forum for a while and have some good press floating around from my clients.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:49 PM   #16
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The main reason Camaro leases are un attractive is because they are not supported by GM. Currently the best way to lease a Chevrolet is through US Bank, but only on select models (Cobalt, Malibu, Impala, HHR, Equinox, and Traverse). These models are supported by GM with rates, residual values, and rebates. All other vehicles are not supported, so US Bank decides the program, not the dealer or the manufacturer.

A quick example is the Traverse compared to the Equinox. The Traverse has a higher MSRP but the lease payments will be very similiar to a comparable Equinox.

Here's why (based on 1LT AWD models)

Equinox Money factor 0.00085 = a rate of 2%
The residual value is 43%
and there is no CCR (cap cost reduction)

Traverse Money factor is 0.0004 = a rate of 0.96%
The residual value is 46%
and there is $1800 in CCR

So in this comparison you can see that the Equinox's rate is higher, residual is lower, and there is no CCR to help lower the payments. Currently the Traverse has the stronger program.

I just put some numbers together on a Camaro 1LT with an automatic transmission MSRP $25,875. A 48 month, 12,000 miles per year lease with a T.O.P (total out of pocket) of $3,000 would land payments right at $399 per month. This was figured at MSRP and includes all NJ taxes and fees.

Hope some of this helps, I have been a member of the forum for a while and have some good press floating around from my clients.
Hi Dave,

This is awesome help and very thorough. Furthermore, it makes the car seem like it's AFFORDABLE TO ME!!!! ... or at least in the realm of possibility for certain. So happy. I cannot wait until I join the fraternity of Camaro drivers!

Now to check on the NY threads for some good dealerships to hound
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:59 PM   #17
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We are in Livingston NJ, about 30 minutes outside of Manhattan. If I can be of any assistance just give me a call. 973-992-9100

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Old 01-14-2010, 09:10 AM   #18
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The main reason Camaro leases are un attractive is because they are not supported by GM. Currently the best way to lease a Chevrolet is through US Bank...

I just put some numbers together on a Camaro 1LT with an automatic transmission MSRP $25,875. A 48 month, 12,000 miles per year lease with a T.O.P (total out of pocket) of $3,000 would land payments right at $399 per month. This was figured at MSRP and includes all NJ taxes and fees.

Hope some of this helps, I have been a member of the forum for a while and have some good press floating around from my clients.
Good morning Dave,

Just so people here, myself included, have an idea of how the $399 was generated, can you post the related info such as who the lender is, residual, rate, etc?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:50 AM   #19
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... and was that a monthly lease rate (yes, I'm assuming) or a finance rate?
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:58 AM   #20
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Good morning Dave,

Just so people here, myself included, have an idea of how the $399 was generated, can you post the related info such as who the lender is, residual, rate, etc?

Thanks in advance.


The lease is through US Bank.

This example was a 48 month lease allowing 12,000 miles per year. US Bank's residual value is 42%. The rate is 5.75% (0.00240). $3000 total out of pocket. This example includes NJ sales tax of 7% and inception fees.

The $3000 t.o.p. is not required but of course the less money up front the higher the payment and the more up front the lower the payment.

I'm not sure if these programs differ state to state. I am in NJ.

Dave
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:03 AM   #21
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Good to know to help with the math, Dave. Does your company sell/register cars for NY customers?
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:09 AM   #22
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Good to know to help with the math, Dave. Does your company sell/register cars for NY customers?
Yes, we can sell/register to any state. The lease for NY will stay the same except for the tax and MV fees. The tax is based on your counties tax rate and the MV fees will probably be less than NJ's because we pay a four year registration up front.

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