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Cosmetic Maintenance: Washing, Waxing, Detailing, Bodywork, Protection Anything related to keeping your Camaro clean and in good cosmetic condition.

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Old 01-17-2010, 11:03 PM   #1
Mr CLuTcH
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Thumbs up Understanding Paint Correction-The Nitty-Gritty

At Junkman2008's request.....I created this thread. He thought the questions I posed to him would be good for people who really want to grasp "paint correction" in a more clearer understanding.
Alright Junkman,....

I bought a blower from Sears(my job), people think I'm crazy for blow-drying my car. My family just laughed and shook they're head. But as you said Junkman, the less you have to physically touch the paint, the less you can scratch or damage it. Man, write a damn book or video series. I agree with your philosophy totally, but help me understand it a little more. I want my paint to look like yours after I get my PC, polish and wax.

Now let me ask some questions......

1. If you advise everyone to touch they're paint minimally, at what point in the detailing process are we allowed to touch the paint?

2. I washed my car today,...took me a couple of hours. I did the 2 bucket method, works nice and makes perfect sense. Blow-dried it to get the bulk of the water off. Afterwards, once it was dry I came back with some McGuire detailing spray. Upon wiping the car down with the spray within the light, I noticed EXACTLY what you showed us in your video, SWIRL MARKS. They were very faint, but you could damn sure see them when you cock your head to the side from the right angle. Junkman, I don't like it. Tell me,.....are these swirl marks removable? Like TOTALLY?

What happens to the swirl marks once you use the PC and polish on them? They disappear, but are you really annihilating them or hiding them with polish?

3. I have some scratches on my car, none really deep, but like 3 that are easily visible, they're a level above being faint, they're visible, will the PC with the yellow pad and swirl and haze remover actually remove them?

4. When are we suppose to use setting 6 or 7 on the PC?

5. Once all of my swirl marks and scratches are gone,....how do I prevent myself from adding more? I won't try to spray detailing spray on the car if there is any DIRT on the car. If there is DIRT on the car, you MUST wash it. But if there is "light dust", a less harmful form of dirt, I will remove it with the California Duster, then wipe it down with detailing spray. But Junkman, my question is, while I'm wiping the car down with detailing spray, how do I prevent adding swirl marks? I mean, how did they get there in the beginning? Wiping down with a ruff rag, wiping down with a dirty rag, and wiping in a circle. Is there anything else I missed????

Man, I really appreciate your help Junkman. You have some damn deep knowledge of this stuff and I follow your words exactly as they're spoken, that's because I want the same results you've achieved. I awakened out of the matrix, I see the swirls! I see the incorrect technique! I dunno if it's possible for a daily driver, but hell,....I'm going to try to keep my paint perfect. But I just don't want to add more swirl marks after I remove them. That's my fear. I wipe with a clean microfiber towel, and in one direction. Wipe it down, check ya rag, wipe it down, check ya rag. lol.
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:47 PM   #2
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Good questions...

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Old 01-17-2010, 11:56 PM   #3
Mr CLuTcH
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Good questions...
Thx. But Junkman took a nap, he's going to answer them with pictures when he wakes up. He'll be back on probably at some odd time during the nite lol.
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:56 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
Thx. But Junkman took a nap, he's going to answer them with pictures when he wakes up. He'll be back on probably at some odd time during the nite lol.
It's weird time O-thirty and I'm baaaaaaack! I started writing this at 2:20 AM. Look at what time it posted. You had better read it ALL!

Okay, this will be a great thread for people who want to know the nitty-gritty with detailing for the anal. If you follow this thread, we have something in common! Now lets answer some questions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
I bought a blower from Sears(my job), people think I'm crazy for blow-drying my car. My family just laughed and shook they're head. But as you said Junkman, the less you have to physically touch the paint, the less you can scratch or damage it. Man, write a damn book or video series. I agree with your philosophy totally, but help me understand it a little more. I want my paint to look like yours after I get my PC, polish and wax.
This was funny!

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Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
Now let me ask some questions......

1. If you advise everyone to touch they're paint minimally, at what point in the detailing process are we allowed to touch the paint?
The better question is when should you NOT touch the paint. That time would be when the car is dusty or dirty. Don't ever swipe your finger or your hand across the paint when ANY dirt is on the paint. All that does is grind the dirt into the paint causing scratches and swirls. Understand this. Scratches happen as soon as you handle the paint while the car is dirty. Swirls are caused when you REPEATEDLY keep making this mistake. That's why you'll notice that as you start this swirl and scratch removing process that I demonstrate in my videos, the surface scratches will come out noticably faster than the swirls. The swirls take much longer because they are DEEPER into the clear coat than the surface scratches. It takes a while to get them out because it took you a while for you to put them in.

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Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
2. I washed my car today,...took me a couple of hours. I did the 2 bucket method, works nice and makes perfect sense. Blow-dried it to get the bulk of the water off. Afterwards, once it was dry I came back with some McGuire detailing spray. Upon wiping the car down with the spray within the light, I noticed EXACTLY what you showed us in your video, SWIRL MARKS. They were very faint, but you could damn sure see them when you **** your head to the side from the right angle. Junkman, I don't like it. Tell me,.....are these swirl marks removable? Like TOTALLY?
Those swirl marks are TOTALLY removable!!! The question is, are you dedicated enough to totally remove them?

Here's what you Camaro owners have working to your advantage. Your cars are relatively new. You don't have 6 years of "doing it WRONG" kind of damage on your cars yet (at least I hope not). Thus, the most you will have to do is removing 2 years of damage which is a lot easier than someone working on a 12 year old paint job. Can it be totally removed? Look at these pictures.

Ten year old Ford with massive swirls:










Not one person on this forum should have damage like this on their car. If I can fix this, then your paint should be a cake walk. Here's the after shots:








Let's get down close to the paint and look through the clear coat to the reflection of the halogen lights that I use to see the damage:




Now, let's take it outside and look at that paint up close in natural light:






Looking through the clear coat again:




The super-duper close-up:




That's not all. Let's look at some more paint damage. A 11 year old Corvette:




After the repair:




An 11 year old Corvette that was backed into! It has never been waxed the entire time this owner has owned it (1 owner car):




After the repair:




I could do this for pages but I think you get the idea. Sure, I have experience doing this so I can get these kind of results easily. However, I have created video after video showing anyone who wants to learn how to do this. After a little bit of dedicated practice, you too can begin removing your much easier swirls from your own paint.



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Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
What happens to the swirl marks once you use the PC and polish on them? TThey disappear, but are you really annihilating them or hiding them with polish?
The Junkman does not hide paint damage! The process I show you is removing the damage from the clear coat by shaving the clear coat down, past the damage in it. That's right folks, in order to remove the damage, you have to remove some of the clear coat too (the part of the clear coat that contains the damage). Now here the good news. The PC-7424XP is NOT going to remove a lot of clear coat, and it is not going to remove any clear coat very fast. In fact, the PC is very slow at removing paint damage and is why it is such a safe machine to use to do so. This is also why it takes much longer to repair the damage to the clear coat.

There are machines out there that will do this much faster. Two that you will see mentioned are the Makita rotary and the Flex orbital. A rotary machine will wipe all the clear coat AND paint in one spot off the car in seconds. That's why you should NEVER attempt to use one unless you are a professional detailer. The Flex orbital is a little bit safer than a rotary but can also wipe out your paint. That's why as a novice to polishing with a machine, you should NEVER let someone talk you into using one of these polishers. Consider this, if someone talks you into trying one of these machines and you screw up your paint, who is going to pay to have the car repainted? They were free with their advice but you'll quickly find out that they won't be as quick with their wallets. Don't believe the hype, stick with the much safer PC and take your time correcting your paint. This isn't a race and you won't end up at the paint booth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
3. I have some scratches on my car, none really deep, but like 3 that are easily visible, they're a level above being faint, they're visible, will the PC with the yellow pad and swirl and haze remover actually remove them?
There is absolutely no way for me to answer that question without seeing the damage myself. What you as a novice considers deep, and I as someone with experience considers deep may be two different things. So the answer could be yes or no. One thing I will say is get the idea of using the yellow pad out of your mind. Only use it when I direct you to because it does damage to the paint that takes time to learn how to remove. The orange pad also does damage to the paint but it is a lot easier to fix using FMP. As a matter of fact, I may direct you to use FMP with the yellow pad instead of using SHR. The cut will be different and a lot more manageable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
4. When are we suppose to use setting 6 or 7 on the PC?
There is no setting of 7, and you should never use a setting of 6. There may come a time when 6 is feasible but while learning how to do paint correction, NEVER use the setting of 6. You need to learn how to allow the polisher to work for you. That means that you have got to learn how to apply the correct amount of pressure so that you don't interfere with what the polisher is designed to do. Applying to much pressure interferes with what the polisher is doing and makes the polisher less effective. It also causes you to work more which will end up causing you to become fatigued. After that happens, you get sloppy and it's all down hill after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
5. Once all of my swirl marks and scratches are gone,....how do I prevent myself from adding more? I won't try to spray detailing spray on the car if there is any DIRT on the car. If there is DIRT on the car, you MUST wash it. But if there is "light dust", a less harmful form of dirt, I will remove it with the California Duster, then wipe it down with detailing spray. But Junkman, my question is, while I'm wiping the car down with detailing spray, how do I prevent adding swirl marks? I mean, how did they get there in the beginning? Wiping down with a ruff rag, wiping down with a dirty rag, and wiping in a circle. Is there anything else I missed????
Eighty percent of your swirls come from improper washing. The other 20% come from drying and wiping on the car while it is dirty. How do you avoid reintroducing swirls into the paint? WASH THE CAR USING THE TWO BUCKET SYSTEM! It is totally common sense once you understand why you do the 2-bucket wash. I have also posted a thread on wiping dust off the car using a waterless washing product. Follow the instructions I give in those videos! Last of all, follow this rule: The less you touch the paint, the less opportunity there is for you to scratch the paint. Period. One of those times is the drying process.

Here's how I dry my car. After the final rinse, I turn the water down so that it is flowing slowly. I remove my nozzle and allow the water to gently flow over the car, starting at the top and working my way down. This causes all of the small beads of water to pool and run off the car in puddles. This process removes a great deal of the water that was on the car.

Next, I use an electric Sears leaf blower that I paid $29 for to blow off a majority of the remaining water. This also allow me to blow water out of the cracks and crevices where water hides and streaks the car after you start driving it (that is very annoying). By the time I'm done with the pooling and leaf blower processes, there is very, very little water left on the car to remove. That means that I will be rubbing on the car a lot less than I would be if I didn't use these two processes. I have eliminated a major part of the scratching process by doing this. You should do the same.

Two things to consider about this process. DO NOT use a gas powered leaf blower. It will spew crap from the machine all over your paint. Secondly, if you do this outside, make sure that you totally soak the area down around the car so that you don't blow dust and dirt upon the car. That includes wetting the grass down around the car also. I do my routine in my garage so I don't have to worry about dust in the air or disturbed dust on the ground landing on the car.

Now, the towels that you use to remove the remaining water off the car is also an important part of the equation. If the towels you use have a tag sewn into the seam, they are garbage. If they were made in China, they are garbage (the best microfiber towels come from Korea or the USA). If they came out of Pep Boys, Auto Zone, Advance auto or some place similar, they're garbage. Check out these pictures.






Now here's what happened. I took my car in to get some new tires. I distinctly told the guy putting the new tires on the car to NOT worry about any fingerprints that he put on the car. I told him NOT to remove them by wiping on the car. I go back to check on the car just as he was finishing up and he was scrubbing his grubby little fingerprints off the door. The first picture shows how much damage he did. Needless to say, I chewed on his butt for a few minutes for not following directions. Like I said before, I'm pretty anal about my paint.

The second picture shows what it looked like after hitting it with some FMP and the white pad. Because the damage was on top of my clear coat after I had already corrected the entire car, the damage came out easily without having to use the orange pad and SHR. After you get your paint corrected, you should never have to go back to the orange pad and SHR unless you continue to wash the car wrong or you are constantly wiping on the car incorrectly using crappy towels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH View Post
Man, I really appreciate your help Junkman. You have some damn deep knowledge of this stuff and I follow your words exactly as they're spoken, that's because I want the same results you've achieved. I awakened out of the matrix, I see the swirls! I see the incorrect technique! I dunno if it's possible for a daily driver, but hell,....I'm going to try to keep my paint perfect. But I just don't want to add more swirl marks after I remove them. That's my fear. I wipe with a clean microfiber towel, and in one direction. Wipe it down, check ya rag, wipe it down, check ya rag. lol.
You have officially been unplugged from the Matrix and I shall now place upon you the name of Neo!

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Old 01-18-2010, 11:05 PM   #5
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Junkman,.......YOU ARE GOD! lol. Man, jesus christ your work is amazing. Did you see that damn corvette?! How in the hell did you get those SCARS to magically disappear? Man, I can only hope to be as good as you even when if I put in lots of time. I mean, wow. I really appreciate you answering all my questions! I look up to you man! Your the master of preservation! You maintain PERFECT PAINT. And that's what I want.

Still waiting on my PC and other materials to come in the mail. I mean it's killing me. I wanna start as soon as possible. At least I have the comfort of knowing the little swirls that are there can be easily removed. Man, thank you. So much...
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*K&N typhoon CAI
*Aggressive cam.
*Tune
**Result**: 465rwhp/ 447rwtq. Satisfied.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:47 PM   #6
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ive got a black camaro- just bought some poor boys products, and some pads, which pads should i be using for the stuff?
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:49 PM   #7
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Junkman,.......YOU ARE GOD! lol. Man, jesus christ your work is amazing. Did you see that damn corvette?! How in the hell did you get those SCARS to magically disappear? Man, I can only hope to be as good as you even when if I put in lots of time. I mean, wow. I really appreciate you answering all my questions! I look up to you man! Your the master of preservation! You maintain PERFECT PAINT. And that's what I want.

Still waiting on my PC and other materials to come in the mail. I mean it's killing me. I wanna start as soon as possible. At least I have the comfort of knowing the little swirls that are there can be easily removed. Man, thank you. So much...
Practice, technique and a quality product. Practice, technique and a quality product. Practice, technique and a quality product. Practice, technique and a quality product. Practice, technique and a quality product. Practice, technique and a quality product. Practice, technique and a quality product.

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ive got a black camaro- just bought some poor boys products, and some pads, which pads should i be using for the stuff?
I'm not familiar with the Poor Boys products or pads so I can't help you there.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:17 AM   #8
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ive got a black camaro- just bought some poor boys products, and some pads, which pads should i be using for the stuff?
Well, firstly, it all depends on "how clean" you want to keep your car. Do you want swirl marks? Are you willing to settle for having barely noticeable swirl marks, or do you want "PERFECT PAINT".

I don't know about you, but I'm not into buying a super charger no time soon, so I'm into PERFECT PAINT. I don't want any swirl marks or blemishes. I want my car to stay in peak condition for as long as I own it, but to get this it takes dedication, practice, technique, and a quality product. So if you want what I want,.....and what ever true Camaro owner "should" want, your going to need to watch ALL of Junkman2008's youtube videos on "technique" and "quality products". Quality products are true microfiber towels which weren't made in "China", but the U.S. or Korea.

"Microfiber towels" you can buy from Pepboys or Autozone are s***. Order a quality product. Goto AdamsPolishes.com Order the microfiber towels from there, order they're drying towels too. Get they're detailing products too,...they're worth it. And do yourself a favor and start reading some of what Junkman's already said. The knowledge is irreplaceable.
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*K&N typhoon CAI
*Aggressive cam.
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**Result**: 465rwhp/ 447rwtq. Satisfied.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:02 PM   #9
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Bump for all the info.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:31 AM   #10
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Good stuff! I got to get taller or a stool or something, cause the swirls on the roof of the 'maro are at a hard angle to get to (for me). Seems I can't get enough pressure on the PC to be effective. Nice write up A.J.
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:13 AM   #11
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Good stuff! I got to get taller or a stool or something, cause the swirls on the roof of the 'maro are at a hard angle to get to (for me). Seems I can't get enough pressure on the PC to be effective. Nice write up A.J.
In that situation, technique is key. Working at a speed of 5, using 9-14 pounds of pressure will get rid of that damage. Also, moving slow enough to allow the PC to do what it does is crucial to your success.
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:16 AM   #12
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Junkman has some great video's on YouTube, his work is first class. Not to mention the fact he's got amazing patience. Well Done this should be a sticky, he pretty just gave information that took some of us detailing perfectionists years to figure out!
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:18 AM   #13
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ive got a black camaro- just bought some poor boys products, and some pads, which pads should i be using for the stuff?
Which products did you purchase and how bad is the car, pictures?? I've used the entire line before, let me know what products you have and I can help steer you in the right direction.

Always start with the least aggressive method and work your way up.
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:35 AM   #14
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Junkman has some great video's on YouTube, his work is first class. Not to mention the fact he's got amazing patience. Well Done this should be a sticky, he pretty just gave information that took some of us detailing perfectionists years to figure out!
Thanks Nick!
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:53 AM   #15
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touchless?

Junkman, Not sure if you are still monitoring this but if you are, what is your opinion of the touchless car washes that spray your car?

I am trying to devise a strategy. I was thinking that I woudl run it through the touchless once a week or whenever it is slightly dirty and get it detailed on a regular basis.

But I don't know what is best.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:39 PM   #16
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I am always monitoring my threads, old and new.

The answer to your question lies in this thread. It's not that touchless car washes are bad, it's what happens AFTER the touchless wash that will make or break your paint job.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:16 PM   #17
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cant compliment you enough junkman for your incredible work!

ill be collecting my supplies soon to start a long, slow detailing process on my car. my swirls are awful. ive watched all your vids and know how to conquer swirls...but where can i find some info on removing deep scratches? or at least making them less noticeable and avoiding rust in the long long long run?

THANKS! hats off to you
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:42 PM   #18
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Thanks man. If the scratch is rusting, then it is through the clear coat, paint and into the primer or worst yet, the metal. That will require professional intervention. You could fix it yourself but it takes a lot of practice and the kit is expensive as hell. Here's a video that explains it.

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Old 01-31-2012, 07:20 PM   #19
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Subscribed, this thread has some good information
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:20 PM   #20
YOUNGnRECKLESS
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Originally Posted by Junkman2008 View Post
Thanks man. If the scratch is rusting, then it is through the clear coat, paint and into the primer or worst yet, the metal. That will require professional intervention. You could fix it yourself but it takes a lot of practice and the kit is expensive as hell. Here's a video that explains it.

ooo that doesnt look like a garage job for me haha. my camaro has 3 little scratches that are showing some gray, primer i believe.

maybe ill just test out my scratch removing abilities on my crappy little honda that someone already showed no love to. poor thing is riddled with scars
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:23 PM   #21
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Yea, learn on something you don't care about, NOT the Camaro!
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:24 PM   #22
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you sir are a God.

I wish to learn from someone as wise as you and pass it on to my children, because this is amazing!
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:04 PM   #23
Junkman2008
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you sir are a God.

I wish to learn from someone as wise as you and pass it on to my children, because this is amazing!


No Deltakilo, I'm just a guy sharing some advice that your grandma would have passed on to you if she were into cars. Nothing but common sense.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:11 PM   #24
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Thanks Junkman for your dedication. You can tell you're a Jarhead

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Old 02-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #25
Junkman2008
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Thanks for your setvice swabbie. Mad respect.
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