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Old 01-21-2010, 08:03 AM   #18
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Mike, I think any info that makes this an easier job is good info.... But I'm not the OP. His call.

Can the tool be used for cradle bushings also?
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:58 AM   #19
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Nice write up Garth, and Im glad to hear the feedback!

Mike, we have a made an inhouse tool similar to what your describing to install the bushings in a more efficent manner. But this method works the same, just takes more time. Fortunatly there are 15 different ways to accomplish this install, and they are all correct, because in the end your have improved your Camaro with quality Pfadt bushings, and junked the stock rubber.

Again nice write up Garth I look forward to more feedback once I get you your coilovers, and control arm bushings!

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Old 01-21-2010, 10:11 AM   #20
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this sounds easy loll
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:23 AM   #21
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I had actually started this whole process by making a replica of this removal tool. MTCWBY found it in the G8 forums. The link Mike has was my printed intructions exactly..... states 2-3 hours for replacement and originated from the G8 forums. My estimated time and his in the instructions would be a "first timer" install..... professionals much quicker than mine on jack stands and me trying to keep the new floor in good condition. I determined the front 2 bushings couldn't be done this way and figured the G8 must be a slightly different case. The case casting is definitely different in the Camaro vs the tool intructions. Also the instructions have a picture of the rear bushing with the tool attached, which would be the easiest removal. This tool idea seemed great, just didn't work out. Maybe someone else will have a better solution.

Pictures give more info and shows the larger flanged side that has to be pulled out.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffny09 View Post
this sounds easy loll
That's actually what I thought too - while I was making my tool to save a few bucks!
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:54 AM   #23
Aaron Pfadt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55designs
Looks like a bitch of an install.

Aaron can you tell me what benefits we can see from this? Would you only suggest this for very high horespower cars?

Curious to hear what these do and if they make a noticeable driving change.
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Originally Posted by Qwkss View Post

We have Darrells Diff sitting on the work bench awaiting Richmonds install kit. If this is going to be a Noticeable difference, Ill suggest these to him. Plus he will save some coin since we already have the diff out.
These are definitely a benefit for the higher HP cars, but they have benefits for any car that is being launched hard. As others have pointed out, the stock mounts are very soft. This modification will keep away some of the dreaded 'wheel hop' which tears pieces up in the drivetrain.

The interesting thing, is that there is almost no noticeable effects while driving. There is no noise or vibration, everything is just held tighter and more happy.

These are an involved install, so if you have limited experience, I suggest taking this project to a shop. There are some specialized tools required and general heavy lifting.

Like I mentioned, I'm working up some video that illustrates this. Stay tuned.

-Aaron
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:04 AM   #24
Aaron Pfadt
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Originally Posted by dms View Post
Great job on this writeup!. However, your 8-10 hours is a little much. Doing the bushings for us and a Pedders dealer is a hour job. I have done quite a bit of them and 1 hour is plenty of time. We do not remove the diff from the subframe. We have developed a puller set. We use a 1/2 inch acme thread, which requires drilling out the center mounting hole just a little. We have a matching sized push plate and a reciever that the bushing will go into. Here is a link that shows you how to do it.


The diff mount bushings are critical bushings to help transfer torque more efficiently.

Now the link also shows an experimental process I did eliminating the engineered voids and it works. With our testing, we have found using bushings with engineered voids will put less shock on the diff and works well up to about 450hp at the ground. But guys running high hp, especially with drag radials, the diff needs far more support. So we have a harder dura, solid bushing that is good to over 900hp.

Aaron, if you would like info on this tool, just email me.


This was not meant to hijack this thread by no means. Aaron if it is, just email me and I will delete it.

thanks
mike
dms
No problem Mike. That is good information. Unfortunately, I do not think you can use a tool like this on both front bushings for the Camaro. The casting is different enough on the Camaro that the tool would interfere with case on the one side. I looked at making exactly such a tool and decided that it would not work. I'll check again with the CAD models, it would be a simple piece and would be useful for our shops and some DIY guys.

If you could do this without complete removal of the diff, you could save hours.

Even with diff removal, I think 4 or 5 hours is enough time.

-Aaron
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
Mike, I think any info that makes this an easier job is good info.... But I'm not the OP. His call.

Can the tool be used for cradle bushings also?
No. We do have a tool for the cradle bushings as well. The size of the subframe bushings is substantially larger than the diff bushings.

But we have an alternative method that takes 5-10 minutes a bushing as well.

mike
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Pfadt View Post
No problem Mike. That is good information. Unfortunately, I do not think you can use a tool like this on both front bushings for the Camaro. The casting is different enough on the Camaro that the tool would interfere with case on the one side. I looked at making exactly such a tool and decided that it would not work. I'll check again with the CAD models, it would be a simple piece and would be useful for our shops and some DIY guys.

If you could do this without complete removal of the diff, you could save hours.

Even with diff removal, I think 4 or 5 hours is enough time.

-Aaron
Hey Aaron,

we have already done 30-40 of the Camaro diff bushings with this tool. So they do work. 1 hour is all it takes.

mike
dms
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
Hey Aaron,

we have already done 30-40 of the Camaro diff bushings with this tool. So they do work. 1 hour is all it takes.

mike
dms
I don't see the tool you used working on the Camaro. The diff bushings are in a steel cup, with a flange that interferes with your tool.
If you are so convinced that your tool works so well on the Camaro, send me one of the tools to test. If it works I'll definitely give you a super write up.
Even with the tool, no way it's only one hour. Takes half that long just to get the car up on stands and properly supported.
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by dms View Post
Hey Aaron,

we have already done 30-40 of the Camaro diff bushings with this tool. So they do work. 1 hour is all it takes.

mike
dms
I checked your site, where is the tool? How much?
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:17 AM   #29
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I checked your site, where is the tool? How much?
the tools are custom made. We only sell them to our dealers. We tried "lending" some of our tools, but an extremely high % of them came back damaged or destroyed. So we do not do it any more

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Old 01-22-2010, 12:23 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by mtcwby View Post
I don't see the tool you used working on the Camaro. The diff bushings are in a steel cup, with a flange that interferes with your tool.
If you are so convinced that your tool works so well on the Camaro, send me one of the tools to test. If it works I'll definitely give you a super write up.
Even with the tool, no way it's only one hour. Takes half that long just to get the car up on stands and properly supported.
First of all, I do not have to prove it to any of you. We have done it many times. I only mentioned it because of the 8 hours The tool is used for the Camaro and G8. The Camaro might take about 5 minutes longer because of the flange has to be moved. But that is it. These tools are not mass produced and are custom made. We make no money on them so we do not want to sell them to everyone.


I am in travel mode the next 2 weeks. I have a Justice Package and a Track system to do on 2 Camaros locally. I will be taking a million pictures and documenting the builds. And from these pictures, will make or update a ton of install manual. I will be glad to post and do first the rear diff mount bushings, first so all of you that said it cannot work can be done or impossible can see how Pedders gets things done in an efficient manner.

mike
dms
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:34 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by mtcwby View Post
I don't see the tool you used working on the Camaro. The diff bushings are in a steel cup, with a flange that interferes with your tool.
If you are so convinced that your tool works so well on the Camaro, send me one of the tools to test. If it works I'll definitely give you a super write up.
Even with the tool, no way it's only one hour. Takes half that long just to get the car up on stands and properly supported.
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:07 AM   #32
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Quote:
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the tools are custom made. We only sell them to our dealers. We tried "lending" some of our tools, but an extremely high % of them came back damaged or destroyed. So we do not do it any more

mike
dms
Ok. Who is a Dealer in the Cincinnati area where I can buy one from??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
First of all, I do not have to prove it to any of you. We have done it many times. I only mentioned it because of the 8 hours The tool is used for the Camaro and G8. The Camaro might take about 5 minutes longer because of the flange has to be moved. But that is it. These tools are not mass produced and are custom made. We make no money on them so we do not want to sell them to everyone.


I am in travel mode the next 2 weeks. I have a Justice Package and a Track system to do on 2 Camaros locally. I will be taking a million pictures and documenting the builds. And from these pictures, will make or update a ton of install manual. I will be glad to post and do first the rear diff mount bushings, first so all of you that said it cannot work can be done or impossible can see how Pedders gets things done in an efficient manner.

mike
dms
mike
dms
I thought the guy was being sarcastic. Sounds like you are working too much overtime and need a break.
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
First of all, I do not have to prove it to any of you. We have done it many times. I only mentioned it because of the 8 hours The tool is used for the Camaro and G8. The Camaro might take about 5 minutes longer because of the flange has to be moved. But that is it. These tools are not mass produced and are custom made. We make no money on them so we do not want to sell them to everyone.


I am in travel mode the next 2 weeks. I have a Justice Package and a Track system to do on 2 Camaros locally. I will be taking a million pictures and documenting the builds. And from these pictures, will make or update a ton of install manual. I will be glad to post and do first the rear diff mount bushings, first so all of you that said it cannot work can be done or impossible can see how Pedders gets things done in an efficient manner.

mike
dms
mike
dms
Yes, I can see the tool working IF you cut the flange off the oem bushing with a sawzall first, but your instructions (that you posted) did not say anything about cutting off the flange.
As far as 1 hour, never, unless you have 4 guys on it, that have done it before. It will take that long to get it up on stands and to remove the exhaust system. You are probably exaggerating the time to say it is easy. But guys on this forum that DIY don't want exaggerations. They want realistic times that can be achieved by the average guy in his garage, that has never done it before. Sure once you do a couple of them you can usually cut the time in half. But how many of us will ever do it more than once? So give us REAL times. Bring in someone that is mechanically inclined, give him some good directions(for the Camaro, not a G8), jack stands, floor jack, and normal hand tools and see how long it takes to do ONE kit. Not 2 kits or 3 kits. That will be a realistic install time.
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by mtcwby View Post
Yes, I can see the tool working IF you cut the flange off the oem bushing with a sawzall first, but your instructions (that you posted) did not say anything about cutting off the flange.
As far as 1 hour, never, unless you have 4 guys on it, that have done it before. It will take that long to get it up on stands and to remove the exhaust system. You are probably exaggerating the time to say it is easy. But guys on this forum that DIY don't want exaggerations. They want realistic times that can be achieved by the average guy in his garage, that has never done it before. Sure once you do a couple of them you can usually cut the time in half. But how many of us will ever do it more than once? So give us REAL times. Bring in someone that is mechanically inclined, give him some good directions(for the Camaro, not a G8), jack stands, floor jack, and normal hand tools and see how long it takes to do ONE kit. Not 2 kits or 3 kits. That will be a realistic install time.
Your posts do sound like you're trying to pick a fight. I believe he was talking to Aaron when he said it can be done in an hour, not you.

This is the type of job that really isn't a DIY, should be left to professionals unless you have the skills and tools to R&R bushings. If you do have the skill, then, yeah, the first one will probably take considerably longer than an hour.
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