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Old 01-21-2010, 11:49 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Pfadt View Post
No problem Mike. That is good information. Unfortunately, I do not think you can use a tool like this on both front bushings for the Camaro. The casting is different enough on the Camaro that the tool would interfere with case on the one side. I looked at making exactly such a tool and decided that it would not work. I'll check again with the CAD models, it would be a simple piece and would be useful for our shops and some DIY guys.

If you could do this without complete removal of the diff, you could save hours.

Even with diff removal, I think 4 or 5 hours is enough time.

-Aaron
Hey Aaron,

we have already done 30-40 of the Camaro diff bushings with this tool. So they do work. 1 hour is all it takes.

mike
dms
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
Hey Aaron,

we have already done 30-40 of the Camaro diff bushings with this tool. So they do work. 1 hour is all it takes.

mike
dms
I don't see the tool you used working on the Camaro. The diff bushings are in a steel cup, with a flange that interferes with your tool.
If you are so convinced that your tool works so well on the Camaro, send me one of the tools to test. If it works I'll definitely give you a super write up.
Even with the tool, no way it's only one hour. Takes half that long just to get the car up on stands and properly supported.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
Hey Aaron,

we have already done 30-40 of the Camaro diff bushings with this tool. So they do work. 1 hour is all it takes.

mike
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I checked your site, where is the tool? How much?
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:17 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Qwkss View Post
I checked your site, where is the tool? How much?
the tools are custom made. We only sell them to our dealers. We tried "lending" some of our tools, but an extremely high % of them came back damaged or destroyed. So we do not do it any more

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Old 01-21-2010, 11:23 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mtcwby View Post
I don't see the tool you used working on the Camaro. The diff bushings are in a steel cup, with a flange that interferes with your tool.
If you are so convinced that your tool works so well on the Camaro, send me one of the tools to test. If it works I'll definitely give you a super write up.
Even with the tool, no way it's only one hour. Takes half that long just to get the car up on stands and properly supported.
First of all, I do not have to prove it to any of you. We have done it many times. I only mentioned it because of the 8 hours The tool is used for the Camaro and G8. The Camaro might take about 5 minutes longer because of the flange has to be moved. But that is it. These tools are not mass produced and are custom made. We make no money on them so we do not want to sell them to everyone.


I am in travel mode the next 2 weeks. I have a Justice Package and a Track system to do on 2 Camaros locally. I will be taking a million pictures and documenting the builds. And from these pictures, will make or update a ton of install manual. I will be glad to post and do first the rear diff mount bushings, first so all of you that said it cannot work can be done or impossible can see how Pedders gets things done in an efficient manner.

mike
dms
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcwby View Post
I don't see the tool you used working on the Camaro. The diff bushings are in a steel cup, with a flange that interferes with your tool.
If you are so convinced that your tool works so well on the Camaro, send me one of the tools to test. If it works I'll definitely give you a super write up.
Even with the tool, no way it's only one hour. Takes half that long just to get the car up on stands and properly supported.
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:07 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
the tools are custom made. We only sell them to our dealers. We tried "lending" some of our tools, but an extremely high % of them came back damaged or destroyed. So we do not do it any more

mike
dms
Ok. Who is a Dealer in the Cincinnati area where I can buy one from??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
First of all, I do not have to prove it to any of you. We have done it many times. I only mentioned it because of the 8 hours The tool is used for the Camaro and G8. The Camaro might take about 5 minutes longer because of the flange has to be moved. But that is it. These tools are not mass produced and are custom made. We make no money on them so we do not want to sell them to everyone.


I am in travel mode the next 2 weeks. I have a Justice Package and a Track system to do on 2 Camaros locally. I will be taking a million pictures and documenting the builds. And from these pictures, will make or update a ton of install manual. I will be glad to post and do first the rear diff mount bushings, first so all of you that said it cannot work can be done or impossible can see how Pedders gets things done in an efficient manner.

mike
dms
mike
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I thought the guy was being sarcastic. Sounds like you are working too much overtime and need a break.
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Old 01-22-2010, 12:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
First of all, I do not have to prove it to any of you. We have done it many times. I only mentioned it because of the 8 hours The tool is used for the Camaro and G8. The Camaro might take about 5 minutes longer because of the flange has to be moved. But that is it. These tools are not mass produced and are custom made. We make no money on them so we do not want to sell them to everyone.


I am in travel mode the next 2 weeks. I have a Justice Package and a Track system to do on 2 Camaros locally. I will be taking a million pictures and documenting the builds. And from these pictures, will make or update a ton of install manual. I will be glad to post and do first the rear diff mount bushings, first so all of you that said it cannot work can be done or impossible can see how Pedders gets things done in an efficient manner.

mike
dms
mike
dms
Yes, I can see the tool working IF you cut the flange off the oem bushing with a sawzall first, but your instructions (that you posted) did not say anything about cutting off the flange.
As far as 1 hour, never, unless you have 4 guys on it, that have done it before. It will take that long to get it up on stands and to remove the exhaust system. You are probably exaggerating the time to say it is easy. But guys on this forum that DIY don't want exaggerations. They want realistic times that can be achieved by the average guy in his garage, that has never done it before. Sure once you do a couple of them you can usually cut the time in half. But how many of us will ever do it more than once? So give us REAL times. Bring in someone that is mechanically inclined, give him some good directions(for the Camaro, not a G8), jack stands, floor jack, and normal hand tools and see how long it takes to do ONE kit. Not 2 kits or 3 kits. That will be a realistic install time.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by mtcwby View Post
Yes, I can see the tool working IF you cut the flange off the oem bushing with a sawzall first, but your instructions (that you posted) did not say anything about cutting off the flange.
As far as 1 hour, never, unless you have 4 guys on it, that have done it before. It will take that long to get it up on stands and to remove the exhaust system. You are probably exaggerating the time to say it is easy. But guys on this forum that DIY don't want exaggerations. They want realistic times that can be achieved by the average guy in his garage, that has never done it before. Sure once you do a couple of them you can usually cut the time in half. But how many of us will ever do it more than once? So give us REAL times. Bring in someone that is mechanically inclined, give him some good directions(for the Camaro, not a G8), jack stands, floor jack, and normal hand tools and see how long it takes to do ONE kit. Not 2 kits or 3 kits. That will be a realistic install time.
Your posts do sound like you're trying to pick a fight. I believe he was talking to Aaron when he said it can be done in an hour, not you.

This is the type of job that really isn't a DIY, should be left to professionals unless you have the skills and tools to R&R bushings. If you do have the skill, then, yeah, the first one will probably take considerably longer than an hour.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:58 AM   #35
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Yes, I can see the tool working IF you cut the flange off the oem bushing with a sawzall first, but your instructions (that you posted) did not say anything about cutting off the flange.
As far as 1 hour, never, unless you have 4 guys on it, that have done it before. It will take that long to get it up on stands and to remove the exhaust system. You are probably exaggerating the time to say it is easy. But guys on this forum that DIY don't want exaggerations. They want realistic times that can be achieved by the average guy in his garage, that has never done it before. Sure once you do a couple of them you can usually cut the time in half. But how many of us will ever do it more than once? So give us REAL times. Bring in someone that is mechanically inclined, give him some good directions(for the Camaro, not a G8), jack stands, floor jack, and normal hand tools and see how long it takes to do ONE kit. Not 2 kits or 3 kits. That will be a realistic install time.
I am the guy that writes the manuals and install sheets for Pedders. On most of the component install sheets that I have done, I have done them in my driveway, on jack stands, using my compressors, air guns and quality tools. I have done the subframe and diff mount bushings in my driveway 3-4 times and it is very easy. Have not done it in my driveway on a Camaro, but have done it in the shop. You do have to modify the steel jacket. With a air chisel, maybe 30 seconds to a minute per bushing of work is required.

I am also the one that has established the recommended labor times for our PEDDERS dealers. I program 1 hour of time into our systems for the diff mount bushings.

As a final note, I did not make these posts in any way to promote Pedders or to say Pedders is better parts than others. The point of my posts is to assist everyone, from Pfadt to the DIY guys in taking a job the the author of this forum spent 8 hours on, and Pfadt thinks it is a 5 hour job. I am not an engineer like Aaron. But I have very serious practical experiences, am a semi expert in finding procedures for auto repair to be more efficient. I also have a PHD in the "College of Hard Knocks" It absolutely blows me away that so many seem to be angry that I can get this done in a hour, maybe 1.5 for a first timer. If you do not want to believe me, that is OK. If you have specific questions on the install process, I would be glad to assist this community as I always have.

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Old 01-23-2010, 09:24 AM   #36
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I am glad someone else is taking care of this for me! Looks like a HUGE PITA!
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:17 PM   #37
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I am glad someone else is taking care of this for me! Looks like a HUGE PITA!
Actually enjoy doing most of the mods myself.... just not tackling the engine this time around. This work is more like playtime when working on your own car. Plus I get the satisfaction of saying "I did it". Besides, what's the fun of having a muscle car if your not going to "tinker" with it.

Can hardly wait for Pfadt coilover install & test drives!
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:53 PM   #38
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It generally takes us about an hour here in the shop.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:00 PM   #39
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Thanks Blue70SS for the write up and pictures
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:02 AM   #40
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Thanks Blue70SS for the write up and pictures
All in fun ..... crazy how addictive these cars are!
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:11 PM   #41
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the tools are custom made. We only sell them to our dealers. We tried "lending" some of our tools, but an extremely high % of them came back damaged or destroyed. So we do not do it any more

mike
dms
First off, THANK YOU for the motivation. We looked around and could not find this tool you speak of. So we made our own. Worked great.

But you do have to cut one small piece of the old.



Then "fold" up the edge or knock it off.



Install tool.



Impact it.



VIOLA!! All three are gone.


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Old 01-26-2010, 07:48 PM   #42
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Well MY .02 as a DIY it took me 4 hours to get the factory bushings out after I removed the diff! I made a tool and then had to cut the flange of the steel jacket off too!


For me it was better to take everyting out of the car!! I think it is faster in the end.



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Old 01-31-2010, 12:39 AM   #43
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I just finished a complete Track Xa kit on a Camaro at Fastlanes. Now they had our old style diff tool and we have a upgraded one. It did take us about 1.5 hours to replace the diff bushings in this SS. So you can do the Pfadt bushings their way in a 5-6 hours of work, or do a Pedders bushing in a Pedders dealer in 1.5 hours. Your choice.

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Old 01-31-2010, 09:28 AM   #44
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Using our tool, we can get the Stock Diff bushings removed and the Pfadt bushings installed in 1.5 hour.
Its always nice to have options.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:36 AM   #45
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And for the DIYers out there. We are offering our tool to purchase.


http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63224
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:59 PM   #46
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And for the DIYers out there. We are offering our tool to purchase.


http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63224
Some may think this is out of line, BUT considering responses I've been seeing I think it should be said. Its really good to see your not holding the tool hostage like DMS or having a one person pissing contest. Nice professional response "Qwkss" with no bull..... thanks for keeping it professional.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:31 PM   #47
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Well MY .02 as a DIY it took me 4 hours to get the factory bushings out after I removed the diff! I made a tool and then had to cut the flange of the steel jacket off too!
Thanks for the pictures.... very helpful to see the cradle components like that.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:01 PM   #48
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Some may think this is out of line, BUT considering responses I've been seeing I think it should be said. Its really good to see your not holding the tool hostage like DMS or having a one person pissing contest. Nice professional response "Qwkss" with no bull..... thanks for keeping it professional.
Thanks for sending me "The Tool", Qwkss. I'll be installing the Pfadt bushings on Friday in Blue70SS's garage. DMS won't sell a tool, they are saving it just for Pedders Factory Installers. To hell with us DIYers, we only get DMS telling us it can be done in 1.5 hrs.(major sarcasm)
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Blue70SS View Post
Some may think this is out of line, BUT considering responses I've been seeing I think it should be said. Its really good to see your not holding the tool hostage like DMS or having a one person pissing contest. Nice professional response "Qwkss" with no bull..... thanks for keeping it professional.
Ive been doing this for 16 years, and it comments like this that make it easy for me to keep doing it for another 16 years.
Thank you for posting the pictures. I hope you dont mid that I used a couple in my thread.

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Thanks for sending me "The Tool", Qwkss. I'll be installing the Pfadt bushings on Friday in Blue70SS's garage. DMS won't sell a tool, they are saving it just for Pedders Factory Installers. To hell with us DIYers, we only get DMS telling us it can be done in 1.5 hrs.(major sarcasm)
You received it already? Nice!! Please post up any feedback you have. It should be straightforward, but if you run into any issues, please post them up.

Craig@cincyspeed.com
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:39 PM   #50
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I'm amazed at the hostility here. Mike (dms) didn't say to hell with the DIY'ers, he said the tool was a custom made one which they make for their dealers; in other words it's not a stocked on-the-shelf item they sell... they custom make them as needed for their dealers. His comment about it and the install time using it was aimed at Pfadt who does this as part of their business; it was not aimed at a one-time-use diy situation. How many businesses would tell their competitors "hey we have a tool that can cut that install time in half, interested?" I thought that was pretty cool for him to offer it to Aaron.

I just had a Pedder's Extreme Street package put on my car which included the diff bushings, many other bushings, coilovers and a full chassis alignment which in itself took over an hour on a very sophisticated machine. It took the Pedder's dealer a day to do it which included everything.

If a dealer can do the diff bushings in about 1.5 hrs at $60 an hour, that's about $90-100 in labor. I understand Mike's thinking that why sell a tool for $160 or more to be used only once when you can take it to the dealer who will do it for less? And he stated the problems they had in the past with loaning tools; I didn't see any bashing or contempt for the DIY crowd in what he said.

I read this thread earlier today and I almost commented on it but didn't. However it's really bothered me to the point where I wanted to comment.

All this hostility and anger really doesn't benefit any of the vendors or the Camaro community and I don't see any real reason for it. Both Pedder's and Pfadt make great stuff; they work as advertised and are worth getting. I couldn't be happier with my Pedder's system and I'm sure a Pfadt system would provide the same benefits. I'm very glad both companies support the Camaro and I'd hate to have that enthusiasm dampened by misplaced animosity.

Last Saturday the SoCal Cam5 group got together at Nutek wheels in Anaheim and we had a great time. Warren and Mike Lin from Racing Brake as well as Mike Haddad of Haddad Motorsports who is a Pedder's dealer and installed my system came to the event as well. It was a great day and great to see the spirit of community and cooperation between vendors that has become a hallmark of Camaro5 as everybody met together and discussed Camaros and the things we've done and plan to do to them.

Mtcwby you did a wonderful job of contributing to the children's charity event you guys did last year and I'd love to see that same spirit of good will brought here. Pfadt and Pedders are both excellent companies with top notch reputations; there shouldn't be any reason to have hard feelings towards either company or it's representatives. Both contribute very useful info to the forum and make great products and I believe it benefits all of us to have them here.
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