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Old 01-31-2010, 06:35 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Oh, and one other thing about the power gains...I've noticed the guys getting the flowmaster exhaust are noticing noticable power increases. While that exhaust also seems to have a nice low tone at idle and low rpms, when under a load or reving it certainly does have rasp....hence I'm guessing its a more free flowing exhaust than these magnaflows....and thus explains the power gains.

I really like the idea of getting the gains that FM guys are talking about, but I think I'd rather have a good sound than bigger gains at this point.

So my question is, have you noticed any differences in power or torque at all, or is it more of just a noise change?
Would love to see some independent dyno testing... no one, including me, is immune to the placebo effect!!! I could have sworn I picked up some nice gains with my JBAs and a tune... but the dyno proved me wrong... all in my head! LOL! So needless to say I tend to be the Doubting Thomas when folks say "WOW, my new mod made a big performance gain!" And that's why i will continue to buy dyno time and run my car at the track...
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:20 AM   #27
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So my question is, have you noticed any differences in power or torque at all, or is it more of just a noise change?
Yes there is more Torque for sure, you can feel it at take off. The rear wheel cut loose on wet pavement and they didn't before.
Ones I get my Airaid installed I will do a dyno to see what I got going on at the rear wheels.

For the record I regret posting those crappy videos, all it's done is confuse everyone. I wasn't going to do it but since I knew that it was going to be a while before I could do a better one, I post it anyway.

Lets just pause on the video till I can get a better one.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:28 AM   #28
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Best mod! I will get a red 2SS RS replace the badge with RS so no one in my neighborhood will notice and pick up 100 more HP and be done with it.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:33 AM   #29
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Yes there is more Torque for sure, you can feel it at take off. The rear wheel cut loose on wet pavement and they didn't before.
Ones I get my Airaid installed I will do a dyno to see what I got going on at the rear wheels.

For the record I regret posting those crappy videos, all it's done is confuse everyone. I wasn't going to do it but since I knew that it was going to be a while before I could do a better one, I post it anyway.

Lets just pause on the video till I can get a better one.
There are a lot of factors that would go into whether you can spin your tires on wet pavement.... So I really don't think that's especially a realistic measurement of improved torque from you exhaust... I mean I can spin my RS tire/wheels on DRY pavement... so does that mean I got a LOT more torque from my MRT exhaust?

Did you happen to do a base line dyno?
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:28 AM   #30
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[QUOTE=scrming;1433938]Would love to see some independent dyno testing... no one, including me, is immune to the placebo effect!!! I could have sworn I picked up some nice gains with my JBAs and a tune... but the dyno proved me wrong... all in my head! LOL! So needless to say I tend to be the Doubting Thomas when [COLOR="Red"]folks say "WOW, my new mod made a big performance gain!" And that's why i will continue to buy dyno time and run my car at the track...[/QUOTE]


....EXACTLY........!!!!!!

The only way to tell of ANY performance gain is #1..Run with the same (or very close to the same DA) at the track, #2..use a timing device,it doesn't have to be 100% accurate just CONSTANT. or #3..Use a dyno......BUT ALL testing MUST be done with the same or very close DA (DENSITY ALTITUDE) ...... IMHO !!!

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Old 01-31-2010, 10:57 AM   #31
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Even with the wind noise in the video, I could pick out the exhaust sounds fairly well. I think it sounds great and if I owned a V6 instead of the V8, I would seriously consider this system. It's got good tone but fairly quiet too which is a good way to mitigate the honk or raspiness that alot of folks notice with this engine. Even my 09 Malibu with it's 3.6L had that same honk at higher RPM with WOT. I figure if GM can't completely tune it out, it's going to tough for the aftermarket exhaust guys too. Good job!
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:31 AM   #32
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Even with the wind noise in the video, I could pick out the exhaust sounds fairly well. I think it sounds great and if I owned a V6 instead of the V8, I would seriously consider this system. It's got good tone but fairly quiet too which is a good way to mitigate the honk or raspiness that alot of folks notice with this engine. Even my 09 Malibu with it's 3.6L had that same honk at higher RPM with WOT. I figure if GM can't completely tune it out, it's going to tough for the aftermarket exhaust guys too. Good job!
yeah... the rasp is the nature of the 60 degree, DOHC, V6... you'll find it in other sizes and brands also...
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:14 PM   #33
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Ok the rasp issue has been beatten to death, lets move on. :bangdesk:
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:36 PM   #34
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Ok the rasp issue has been beatten to death, lets move on. :bangdesk:
well... if you think we talk about rasp a lot now, i have the feeling we'll be talking about it a lot more once people start putting long tubes on...
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:10 PM   #35
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Also agree that while yes the rasp issue has been beaten to death, the talk about it will never just go away b/c in my opinion, getting rid of as much of it as possible is why some people want a new exhaust in the first place.

No exhaust may ever completely eliminate it, but I think these magnaflows do a fine job.

Appreciate all the feedback and looking forward to your future vids FishTail!
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:09 PM   #36
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Also agree that while yes the rasp issue has been beaten to death, the talk about it will never just go away b/c in my opinion, getting rid of as much of it as possible is why some people want a new exhaust in the first place.

No exhaust may ever completely eliminate it, but I think these magnaflows do a fine job.

Appreciate all the feedback and looking forward to your future vids FishTail!
Thanks dude, Just giving my two cents, ok maybe three.

This is my unbiased opinion because I sure have nothing to gain or lose whether someone buys Manaflow or any other exhaust, but it is an opinion none the less.
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:21 AM   #37
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Hey Guys just wanted to share my latest project. I installed the new Magnaflow Street Series catback and it sounds great with a nice deep tone with absolutely no rasp at all.

Videos Here. Sorry it was a very windy day





Just want to say that Jordan and the guys at Magnaflowplus.com - JDP Motorsports, took realy good care of me. They gave me a great price on this system with super fast Fedex shipping and if anyone of you is intrested, you should contact them before the end on January so they can hook you up as well.

The price is too low to post, just contact them and you'll see.

Guys If you want 0 raspiness through the whole RPM range this catback is the way to go IMO.
I'm glad you're enjoying your system!!! Please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime with questions and we appreciate your business!

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Love the sound of your cat backs...forsure! Too bad by the time I'm ready to purchase (something), these will be back up over the 1000 dollar range. The axel back version sounds close to yours from what I can gather through the video on here, but perhaps with a bit less depth to them.

Agree, I hear no rasp in your vids at all!
Let us know when you're ready! We've got low pricing on Magnaflow products and we'll take care of you when you're ready! Please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime!

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FISHTAIL: was the price you paid lower than the price listed on the website?
Please feel free to call, email or PM us for the coupon codes!

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I don't think you will get any noticeable power difference going from 2.25" pipe to 2.5" with this motor... especially if you car keeping the stock cats and manifolds... and then it will probably be minimal... until perhaps you add some type of FI...

There was a LOT of testing with the 4.0L V6 Mustang which had 2.25" down pipes to a Y pipe which then goes to a single 2.5" pipe for a single exhaust. Dynos showed minimal gains going from the single 2.5" pipe to 2.5" dual exhaust... so moving from dual 2.25" to dual 2.5" would most likely show the same minimal gain...
The 4.0L Mustang engine was making a 1/3 less HP than the LLT 3.6L and they are both completely different. I'm not saying you're going to gain a lot going from 2.25" to 2.5" but the design of the Magnaflow mufflers and resonated x-pipe will allow for better flow as well as tone quality. You're correct that the factory exhaust manifolds and converters are the largest restriction in the system but a cat-back does help. As you know an engine is basically a large air pump, the more air you get into/out of the engine the more power you make along with added efficiency when your foots out of it!

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The raspiness is the nature of the V6, not the resonators... I think the reason you have less rasp is because you've "muffled" it... Hard to tell from your video clips, due to the wind noise.. but definitely sounds like your setup has a much more "muffled" sound than other systems... Doesn't have the louder, free flowing rev sound... I'm not saying that is a bad thing, just my observation and opinion....

So looking at the diagram... the H-pipe and resonators are replaced what appears to a 3rd muffler... I know it's not... but can't think of the proper name... but I think it definitely is going to quiet things down more than the resonators.



I don't know about the mufflers but they appear to be chambered and guessing probably going to be on the quieter side...

So like I've always said, exhaust sound preference is a very personal choice and if you like your system that's great! However, I think the real reason you have less rasp is because the exhaust is a less aggressive, quieter setup... best way I can describe it is "muffled"...

Think we need to line up all the different systems at Camaro FEST.. record them all with the SAME camcorder and measure them with the db meter from the same distance...
The Magnaflow system uses straight through polished stainless steel USA made mufflers packed with basalt (Lava Rock) and stainless steel wool mesh. They are as free flowing as you can get and honestly the best mufflers on the market. The sound is determined by the length and size of the muffler so you can tune the sound to your taste but Magnaflow spends a lot of time developing these systems to make more HP and sound nice. Everyone has a different opinion on the sound they like but to me this is a very refined system.

The "Third" muffler is a resonated x-pipe. It has a tru-x perforated core and it's packed the same way the mufflers are. The high quality packing Magnaflow uses is the reason they sound and perform the way they do as well as having a lifetime warranty, the sound doesn't change much over time. They will get a bit deeper/louder as they break in but after about 2-3K miles it will stay the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Oh, and one other thing about the power gains...I've noticed the guys getting the flowmaster exhaust are noticing noticable power increases. While that exhaust also seems to have a nice low tone at idle and low rpms, when under a load or reving it certainly does have rasp....hence I'm guessing its a more free flowing exhaust than these magnaflows....and thus explains the power gains.

I really like the idea of getting the gains that FM guys are talking about, but I think I'd rather have a good sound than bigger gains at this point.

So my question is, have you noticed any differences in power or torque at all, or is it more of just a noise change?
The Flowmaster is a chambered muffler meaning it has restrictions. That is why you get that tinny noise with FM. The Magnaflow mufflers are straight through and they cause no restriction, the restriction is the pipe diameter.... I'm not sure who is seeing large HP gains with FM but I've always seen the opposite. On our 73' when it was N/A we picked up 25 RWHP (bring us to 525 RWHP) changing the Flowmasters with H-Pipe to Magnaflow with X-Pipe. The power was also a lot smoother.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to call, email or PM me anytime. Have a great day!

Kind regards,
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:17 PM   #38
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The 4.0 Mustang motor is probably more similar than you think... their dyno graphs are about identical until about 4,000 RPM where I believe you start seeing the VVT really shining on the LLT... at that point the LLT graph takes off...

Also.. you mentioned the perforated x-pipe... found the diagram for that:



I have the feeling that this x-pipe is really absorbing a lot of sound along with the two mufflers... giving the system it's refined but quieter sound...
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:26 PM   #39
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The 4.0 Mustang motor is probably more similar than you think... their dyno graphs are about identical until about 4,000 RPM where I believe you start seeing the VVT really shining on the LLT... at that point the LLT graph takes off...

Also.. you mentioned the perforated x-pipe... found the diagram for that:



I have the feeling that this x-pipe is really absorbing a lot of sound along with the two mufflers... giving the system it's refined but quieter sound...
The upper RPM range is where the larger tubing would come into play and it's where the LLT is different than the 4.0L stang. I've built some pretty nasty 4.3L Chevy V6's but I still think the 3.6L benefits from 2.5" exhaust, more so with headers obviously.

You're correct, the resonated x-pipe acts like a muffler and helps control the tone. I personally think the Magnaflow cat-back has the deepest/smoothest tone on the LLT and it's my favorite.

Kind regards,
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:42 PM   #40
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The upper RPM range is where the larger tubing would come into play and it's where the LLT is different than the 4.0L stang. I've built some pretty nasty 4.3L Chevy V6's but I still think the 3.6L benefits from 2.5" exhaust, more so with headers obviously.

You're correct, the resonated x-pipe acts like a muffler and helps control the tone. I personally think the Magnaflow cat-back has the deepest/smoothest tone on the LLT and it's my favorite.

Kind regards,
but i don't think until you move to a high flow cat will you see any real benefit from the larger pipe...

Cat-pipe-cat is probably not the best setup... LOL

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Old 02-02-2010, 07:54 PM   #41
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So much to consider with all of these systems out there.

I really am leaning towards the Magnaflow cat back because it does seem the most well thought out. I am hoping it is a little deeper and louder than stock, and the video here does give me some hope.

Being up here in the Rust belt, a COMPLETE stainless system is the only way I am going to go. The one downside I see with the MRT stuff is the Chromed tips which if not watched out after will tarnish and rust after time. This is one reason I perfer the polished stainless steel.

I'll have to wait anyway, Taxes are not going well and I owe a TON due to taking some of my lump sum when I got downsized to tie me over this past year, the with my parents passing away and the inheritance taxes, I'll be tax poor this year. Glad I bought my Hurst when I did! I might not have bought that at all.
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:07 PM   #42
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So much to consider with all of these systems out there.

I really am leaning towards the Magnaflow cat back because it does seem the most well thought out. I am hoping it is a little deeper and louder than stock, and the video here does give me some hope.

Being up here in the Rust belt, a COMPLETE stainless system is the only way I am going to go. The one downside I see with the MRT stuff is the Chromed tips which if not watched out after will tarnish and rust after time. This is one reason I perfer the polished stainless steel.

I'll have to wait anyway, Taxes are not going well and I owe a TON due to taking some of my lump sum when I got downsized to tie me over this past year, the with my parents passing away and the inheritance taxes, I'll be tax poor this year. Glad I bought my Hurst when I did! I might not have bought that at all.
Had an MRT exhaust with the same type tips on my Mustang and they seen a couple of nasty, salty michigan winters... no issues.. Never really did anything special to keep them looking good... The tips are 304 stainless underneath the chrome... so I really don't think the tips will be an issue...
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:17 PM   #43
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That system looks very nice and sounds Awesome I might be going the magnaflow route.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:47 PM   #44
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So much to consider with all of these systems out there.
I'll have to wait anyway, Taxes are not going well and I owe a TON due to taking some of my lump sum when I got downsized to tie me over this past year, the with my parents passing away and the inheritance taxes, I'll be tax poor this year. Glad I bought my Hurst when I did! I might not have bought that at all.
You will Not have to pay any inheritance taxes !
But that may change in the coming years.



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Old 02-03-2010, 10:29 PM   #45
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That system looks very nice and sounds Awesome I might be going the magnaflow route.
Glad to hear it, I think you'll be pleased.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:21 AM   #46
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Really like that sound. really gonna have to consider the magnaflow
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:24 AM   #47
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Really like the sound of this exhaust at idle and rev. A little concerned about the mention of drone at the 70mph range, since it's usually where the cruise is set on the hwy. Will this go away over time? I have the trunk dynomatted, will that make a difference?
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:43 PM   #48
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Really like the sound of this exhaust at idle and rev. A little concerned about the mention of drone at the 70mph range, since it's usually where the cruise is set on the hwy. Will this go away over time? I have the trunk dynomatted, will that make a difference?
The drone is slight so it doesn't bother me because I just kick it to 74 MPH and it goes away. Plus I have yet to go for a drive without turning on the radio unless I'm listening for something.Lol

Officer I was speeding because I was trying to get rid of the drone :emoticon7:
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:30 PM   #49
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I'm now leaning towards the Magnaflow Cat-back system. I think it sounds very good under load, but that wind noise on the video does make it hard to hear. I do hope you will post some more clips for us to check out FISHTAIL. While some hp and torque gains would be nice, the right sound is what matters the most to me. I will also install a CAI system, the INJEN CAI looks promising but I'm still waiting to see what K&N comes out with.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:40 PM   #50
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I'll try to get better videos this weekend and post them.
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