Pedders & what engine 2 match the fun of E46 M3 for PT track use? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

smkntrls · 01-22-2010, 02:13 AM

Your patience in reading my book is appreciated in advance,

I potentially am going to buy a commuter car (LA manual driver here) that I’m hoping to turn/use as a track car that I can take around Laguna, Willow Springs, Button Willow and all in the name of fun. I've spent way too many hours Web testing as I hope to avoid being an idiot here.

I'd be replacing a '98 BMW 318 and '91 Corvette (because I can’t survive without air filtration and it’s way to nice to take to the track). Currently looking at the Cayman (C6 Z06 is just too expensive, C5 no), LS and SS1 Camaro's and e46 M3 (little or no warranty worries me).

My thougths are you can't beat a Cayman to fit this slot, but might not be able to afford a used one. Then the E46 M3 is the next logical step. BUT will the Pedders kit take the Camaro up to or past the M3 level of flickability/handling/feedback/driver experience in the twisties? Stock vs upgraded suspension is what I want to see. I haven't been able to garner a true understanding (I may have missed it) of how it really works because I feel with larger wheels and tires the story gets blurred.

So those of you in the know (former BMW drivers) how does the car actually compare driving/feel wise? Do you like the feedback and driving experience on the twisties? As I’m worried to see lots of used Camaro’s up for sale now. All a bunch of hype???

Again the first thing I’d do is Pedder it while stripping weight if I can.

Additionally I can’t figure out which engine to start with. I’d like to drop weight on the vehicle but I’m not sure I can. It’s the only reason I’m looking at used M3’s. My 318 gets like 70K miles on good Michelin’s and it’s so light I can roll the thing around town. One of the main reason’s I’d really like to get a Z06 or Cayman. If I could get the Camaro down to say 3200 lbs I’d survive with the six and probably would buy immediately (As gas mileage is important). Is that reasonable to do?

So questions to you in the know: Would the stock V-6 engine be good enough power for around these tracks? Or would I need a FI type system (And will someone actually come out with a CARB legal one?)? But then wouldn’t the weight of the FI system bring the vehicle weight (& price) up to the SS? So then why wouldn’t I stay normally aspirated (unfortunately losing gas mileage along the way. Love getting 413 miles on 16 gallons)? Maybe even get a LS7 down the line as again I believe NA would be more reliable (not a race mechanic so don't harpoon me if I'm off here)? Sure it costs double but if I get the type of mileage out of the car as I normally do???

Also braking is half the fun. So if I went LS I'm assuming the Baer brakes would be sufficient replacements. Or do I not need it? And when you install them do you have to remap/reprogram the abs to work properly with the new stopping power? Is the SS Brembo's good enough for track use?

Your thoughts appreciated as I could purchase within the week.

Smkntrls…

67MellowYellow · 01-22-2010, 09:04 AM

Tough call there. Based on what you said is important to you, I would suggest the M3 or a C6 non ZO6 as a better fit without needing extensive mods. It's going to take some effort to make the Camaro handle as well or as refined on the circle track as either of those 2 cars. Looks like Pedders does offer a great supspension mod package though. You are never going to get a Camaro close to 3200 lbs without completely striping it down to race car prep. For me the Camaro works well but for different reasons. That said, you really need to get out there and test drive all options before you make up your mind.

smkntrls · 01-22-2010, 11:02 AM

I appreciate the feedback 67MellowYellow. Of course my next step was to get out and try out all these cars. Unfortunately it's tought to find the time and I'd like to choral them all within a day's driving comparison. It's nice to live close enough to the canyon's to get a feel for their performance.

Unfortunately for the Camaro it's not quite going to be apples to apples. I'm assuming Jay Leno won't allow me to try his new toy out. Hi Jay I'm local and have an excellent driving record with State Farm

.

stevoreno · 02-15-2010, 09:55 AM

I own an E46 m3 and im like 3 steps away from buying a 1ss camaro here are the differences between the two. your going to loose a lot going from an m3 to the camaro like: Braking, luxury, agility, sporty feel. the first things i noticed when i was driving the 2ss camaro was how huge it feels. the M keeps a very sporty stance and honestly i felt so high off the ground in the camaro and it felt felt so hevy it was like driving my trailblazer again. as far as performance wise the 0-60 is pretty much the exact same but for some reason the M seems to throw you back in your seat more (i had my girlfriend confirm this because im obliviously jaded with driving the M every day) braking in the M is unbelievably remarkable its tough to find that high quality anywhere else. the reasons im still thinking about getting the 1ss is that my M is getting old; it just hit 100k miles and unless you can afford to spend at least a grand every few months on a random repair DONT BUY THE M3 despite how much i love it and its a blast driving you will end up eventually spending thousands and thousands of dollars on it, in less than a year i spent around 6.5k on maintenance. the reason ive chosen the camaro is out of all the cars ive test driven, for the price this is the closest alternative car that is under warranty. i hope i helped feel free to ask me anything you need.

lil_chef · 02-15-2010, 11:21 AM

Honestly...go for a used cayman. In my area I have seen used caymanS for sub 30k with about 40k miles.

I have used my dads cayman s as a track car for about 2 years now and it is an Extremely easy car to drive at the limit.

Kurt_OH · 02-15-2010, 11:26 AM

While you might be able to mod up the Camaro to pull the same Gs or get around the track as fast/faster, you're never going to duplicate that E46 driving experience in a Camaro. It's simply fantastic.

E46 M3, Cayman (most fun, 2x price of M3), S2000, Lotus Elise, C6 w/Z51 are ALL great track cars.

sik68 · 02-16-2010, 01:26 PM

350Z can be had for dirt cheap and seem like a good foundation for a track day car as well. Not up to the Cayman S standard, but you're looking at about 40% of the initial cost...

76z28 · 02-17-2010, 12:44 AM

My choices would be the cayman, camaro then the bmw
bmws are nice and all but the cayman is unblelivable
the camaro is quick for what i like(strait line) compared to the two for the price and what you can do with it
it will be door to door with the m3 strait line racing even though it cost roughly half of the m3
for that 30 grand you save imagine what you can do

01-22-2010, 02:13 AM	#1
smkntrls Drives: 1991 Chevrolet Corvette Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 2	Pedders & what engine 2 match the fun of E46 M3 for PT track use? Your patience in reading my book is appreciated in advance, I potentially am going to buy a commuter car (LA manual driver here) that I’m hoping to turn/use as a track car that I can take around Laguna, Willow Springs, Button Willow and all in the name of fun. I've spent way too many hours Web testing as I hope to avoid being an idiot here. I'd be replacing a '98 BMW 318 and '91 Corvette (because I can’t survive without air filtration and it’s way to nice to take to the track). Currently looking at the Cayman (C6 Z06 is just too expensive, C5 no), LS and SS1 Camaro's and e46 M3 (little or no warranty worries me). My thougths are you can't beat a Cayman to fit this slot, but might not be able to afford a used one. Then the E46 M3 is the next logical step. BUT will the Pedders kit take the Camaro up to or past the M3 level of flickability/handling/feedback/driver experience in the twisties? Stock vs upgraded suspension is what I want to see. I haven't been able to garner a true understanding (I may have missed it) of how it really works because I feel with larger wheels and tires the story gets blurred. So those of you in the know (former BMW drivers) how does the car actually compare driving/feel wise? Do you like the feedback and driving experience on the twisties? As I’m worried to see lots of used Camaro’s up for sale now. All a bunch of hype??? Again the first thing I’d do is Pedder it while stripping weight if I can. Additionally I can’t figure out which engine to start with. I’d like to drop weight on the vehicle but I’m not sure I can. It’s the only reason I’m looking at used M3’s. My 318 gets like 70K miles on good Michelin’s and it’s so light I can roll the thing around town. One of the main reason’s I’d really like to get a Z06 or Cayman. If I could get the Camaro down to say 3200 lbs I’d survive with the six and probably would buy immediately (As gas mileage is important). Is that reasonable to do? So questions to you in the know: Would the stock V-6 engine be good enough power for around these tracks? Or would I need a FI type system (And will someone actually come out with a CARB legal one?)? But then wouldn’t the weight of the FI system bring the vehicle weight (& price) up to the SS? So then why wouldn’t I stay normally aspirated (unfortunately losing gas mileage along the way. Love getting 413 miles on 16 gallons)? Maybe even get a LS7 down the line as again I believe NA would be more reliable (not a race mechanic so don't harpoon me if I'm off here)? Sure it costs double but if I get the type of mileage out of the car as I normally do??? Also braking is half the fun. So if I went LS I'm assuming the Baer brakes would be sufficient replacements. Or do I not need it? And when you install them do you have to remap/reprogram the abs to work properly with the new stopping power? Is the SS Brembo's good enough for track use? Your thoughts appreciated as I could purchase within the week. Smkntrls…

02-15-2010, 11:26 AM	#6
Kurt_OH Member Drives: BMW, Hyundai Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 192 View My Garage	While you might be able to mod up the Camaro to pull the same Gs or get around the track as fast/faster, you're never going to duplicate that E46 driving experience in a Camaro. It's simply fantastic. E46 M3, Cayman (most fun, 2x price of M3), S2000, Lotus Elise, C6 w/Z51 are ALL great track cars. __________________ 2003 Hyundai Elantra GT - going 1998 Dodge Neon - gone 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee - gone 1988 Mustang GT - gone 1970 Comet w/427BBC drag car - gone 1985 Nissan Pulsar - gone Wagon/Sedans/Yuk - gone 1970 Nova w/350 - gone 1970 Camaro w/350 - gone 1970 Chevelle w/350 - gone 1966 Chevy II SS 327 - gone 1968 Camaro w/327 - gone

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01-22-2010, 09:04 AM	#2
67MellowYellow Drives: 2010 SS/RS ABM M6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: East of Seattle Posts: 85	Tough call there. Based on what you said is important to you, I would suggest the M3 or a C6 non ZO6 as a better fit without needing extensive mods. It's going to take some effort to make the Camaro handle as well or as refined on the circle track as either of those 2 cars. Looks like Pedders does offer a great supspension mod package though. You are never going to get a Camaro close to 3200 lbs without completely striping it down to race car prep. For me the Camaro works well but for different reasons. That said, you really need to get out there and test drive all options before you make up your mind.

01-22-2010, 11:02 AM	#3
smkntrls Drives: 1991 Chevrolet Corvette Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 2	I appreciate the feedback 67MellowYellow. Of course my next step was to get out and try out all these cars. Unfortunately it's tought to find the time and I'd like to choral them all within a day's driving comparison. It's nice to live close enough to the canyon's to get a feel for their performance. Unfortunately for the Camaro it's not quite going to be apples to apples. I'm assuming Jay Leno won't allow me to try his new toy out. Hi Jay I'm local and have an excellent driving record with State Farm .

02-15-2010, 09:55 AM	#4
stevoreno Drives: 2002 BMW M3, pending Camaro 1ss Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: valdosta ga Posts: 1	I own an E46 m3 and im like 3 steps away from buying a 1ss camaro here are the differences between the two. your going to loose a lot going from an m3 to the camaro like: Braking, luxury, agility, sporty feel. the first things i noticed when i was driving the 2ss camaro was how huge it feels. the M keeps a very sporty stance and honestly i felt so high off the ground in the camaro and it felt felt so hevy it was like driving my trailblazer again. as far as performance wise the 0-60 is pretty much the exact same but for some reason the M seems to throw you back in your seat more (i had my girlfriend confirm this because im obliviously jaded with driving the M every day) braking in the M is unbelievably remarkable its tough to find that high quality anywhere else. the reasons im still thinking about getting the 1ss is that my M is getting old; it just hit 100k miles and unless you can afford to spend at least a grand every few months on a random repair DONT BUY THE M3 despite how much i love it and its a blast driving you will end up eventually spending thousands and thousands of dollars on it, in less than a year i spent around 6.5k on maintenance. the reason ive chosen the camaro is out of all the cars ive test driven, for the price this is the closest alternative car that is under warranty. i hope i helped feel free to ask me anything you need.

02-15-2010, 11:21 AM	#5
lil_chef Banned Drives: 2010 Mustang GT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 1,823	Honestly...go for a used cayman. In my area I have seen used caymanS for sub 30k with about 40k miles. I have used my dads cayman s as a track car for about 2 years now and it is an Extremely easy car to drive at the limit.

02-16-2010, 01:26 PM	#7
sik68 Drives: 1968 Camaro, 2002 Subaru WRX Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 86	350Z can be had for dirt cheap and seem like a good foundation for a track day car as well. Not up to the Cayman S standard, but you're looking at about 40% of the initial cost...

02-17-2010, 12:44 AM	#8
76z28 Drives: 1976 camaro Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: bakersfield Posts: 470	My choices would be the cayman, camaro then the bmw bmws are nice and all but the cayman is unblelivable the camaro is quick for what i like(strait line) compared to the two for the price and what you can do with it it will be door to door with the m3 strait line racing even though it cost roughly half of the m3 for that 30 grand you save imagine what you can do