Price Gouging Dealers

[Supermans]

Kendall Chevrolet
Miami, Florida

They told me they would give me $500 BELOW MSRP three weeks ago4. When I called the salesman, he keeps on telling me I can't order yet because they don't have the info from GM yet about delivery dates. However he repeated I will get it below MSRP like he promised.. He calls e last week to go place the order so I go with my wife and give him the actual official MSRP. He goes and talks to his manager that day. He tells me they will get MSRP on Monday. On Monday they still don't have it and this goes on till Thursday. Friday morning I call and he says $500 below MSRP, they will honor for me...etc..go over there and wait for about an hour while the salesman talks to his manager again..




The manager comes out and tells me they will not honor what the salesman has been telling you the past three weeks..
What the HELL!!!! What a bunch of lies from them and a wasted three weeks. The manager said they marked up the Z06 in the same way when it was released and is still marked up..
Now I'm not on the first production run even though I put my name on their list last year.. DO NOT GO TO THIS DEALER AS THEY ARE CROOKS!!!!!! In Miami, Florida...

$5,000 OVER MSRP FOR LT
$10,000 OVER MSRP FOR SS

TAG UR IT, I had to use your formatting here but I have to repeat...
Who the bleep do they think they are?!?!?!

LOST MY BUSINESS NOW and Definately for LIFE!!! How in the HELL do you treat a GUARANTEED customer like that!!!!

BOOOO!:thumb down:

POOR POOR POOR POOR POOR[/QUOTE]

Now please everyone do not go to this dealer in Miami, Florida for anything.. Oh and I forgot, $2,000 non-refundable deposit..

[TAG UR IT]

^Use it all you want! These people should not be making promises they can't keep! Once again, I'm going to head over to a dealer after getting my car so I can flaunt it in their faces. Damn liars... "Check out what I got elsewhere!...and YOU have been MY dealer for MY last FOUR cars!!! And now, you've LOST ME. FOR GOOD."

[ZombieEatsYou]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

Man, I gotta quit reading this thread...I'm gettin' f***ing depressed. I'm at $2500 over and almost feeling lucky!

ZombieEatsYou:

I saw that dealer in or near Ocean City listed here...a little too late. Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

Are you saying they sold their allotment?

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by Supermans

How in the HELL do you treat a GUARANTEED customer like that!

I'm not sure I understand what a "guaranteed customer" is. Please explain?

Before allocations were announced several dealers thought they would be selling at MSRP (or even a little below) simply because they thought they would be getting plenty of Camaros to sell.

All anyone has to do to get a new Camaro at MSRP or less is wait until supply catches up with demand. This might even take a year, but it will happen.

[Roadster]

Groth Bros.
Livermore, CA

Per sales manager, 4 allocations, owner wants

$5000 over MSRP

[Rodrunner]

Originally Posted by ZombieEatsYou

Are you saying they sold their allotment?

No,man, I had already given Ken Dixon the $500 NONrefundable deposit on the 18th after deciding to accept the $2500 over and so never checked out the OC dealer. Go for it!!

2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

I'm not sure I understand what a "guaranteed customer" is. Please explain?

Before allocations were announced several dealers thought they would be selling at MSRP (or even a little below) simply because they thought they would be getting plenty of Camaros to sell.

All anyone has to do to get a new Camaro at MSRP or less is wait until supply catches up with demand. This might even take a year, but it will happen.

A "guaranteed customer" is somebody with a check in hand when they walk in. In my case, I was told (lied to) for three weeks that I would get the car at $500 below MSRP. That was by a phone call because I had my name on a waiting list. I was number one on that list of 3 people. I was told to come on over by phone the same day I was going to purchase and give a $2,000 non-refundable deposit down and again I was re-assured I would get the camaro at $500 below MSRP.. They then pulled a bait and switch on me after I had waited about 45 minutes while the salesperson spoke to his manager in a private room. Then they both come out from hiding and the manager tells me they will not sell it to me at $500 below MSRP, in fact they will only sell it to me at $5,000 over MSRP but for the pre-order and today only, it will be $2,000 over msrp.. So they lost a "guaranteed customer" that was willing to give them $2,000 non-refundable cash for a deposit for the pre-order.. And they lost a customer for life along with potential customers that read this thread and in other forums..


And no....all anyone needs to do to get a camaro at msrp or less is to shop around and go to the msrp or below thread to find honest reputable dealers that are not price gouging or in my case doing a bait and switch on me. Yu do not have to wait a year for demand to go down since there are plenty of Camaro's being made.

[fldrummer]

Originally Posted by Supermans

A "guaranteed customer" is somebody with a check in hand when they walk in. In my case, I was told (lied to) for three weeks that I would get the car at $500 below MSRP. That was by a phone call because I had my name on a waiting list. I was number one on that list of 3 people. I was told to come on over by phone the same day I was going to purchase and give a $2,000 non-refundable deposit down and again I was re-assured I would get the camaro at $500 below MSRP.. They then pulled a bait and switch on me after I had waited about 45 minutes while the salesperson spoke to his manager in a private room. Then they both come out from hiding and the manager tells me they will not sell it to me at $500 below MSRP, in fact they will only sell it to me at $5,000 over MSRP but for the pre-order and today only, it will be $2,000 over msrp.. So they lost a "guaranteed customer" that was willing to give them $2,000 non-refundable cash for a deposit for the pre-order.. And they lost a customer for life along with potential customers that read this thread and in other forums..


And no....all anyone needs to do to get a camaro at msrp or less is to shop around and go to the msrp or below thread to find honest reputable dealers that are not price gouging or in my case doing a bait and switch on me. Yu do not have to wait a year for demand to go down since there are plenty of Camaro's being made.

Well, if you find one in Florida, please let us know, 'cuz I haven't had any luck so far.

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I waited about 45 minutes while my salesperson spoke to his manager in a private room. Then they both came out and the manager tells me they will not sell it to me at $500 below MSRP, in fact they will be selling at $5,000 over MSRP, but for my pre-order and today only it would be $2,000 over MSRP.

All anyone needs to do to get a Camaro at MSRP or less is to shop around and go to the MSRP or below thread to find honest reputable dealers that are not price gouging or in my case doing a bait and switch on me. You do not have to wait a year for demand to go down since there are plenty of Camaros being made.

Your particular situation could indeed have been a bait-and-switch, but more likely was the result of the general manager not authorizing the deal his salesman had been offering to you. $500 below MSRP is a good selling price for the dealership on most cars, but not for the first offering of a specialty car model where demand will far exceed supply for the first few months. Your salesman may have just assumed his manager would approve this deal on the Camaro. But the manager knew the dealership should be able to get much more for the early production 2010 Camaros.

There are honest and reputable dealers who recognize that the few new Camaros they have been allotted can command pricing over MSRP until supply catches up with demand. Someone on Camaro5 likened these dealers to ticket scalpers. Car dealers are actually more like ticket brokers, in that both types of businesses have established locations and both can legally sell their commodities for more or less than suggested retail (MSRP for car dealers versus face value for ticket brokers). The clients willing to pay more to either of these two businesses are not the customers looking to pre-order in advance, but are the customers who wait until the cars are in the showrooms or look for tickets just before the day of the game (or other event). If absolutely NO car dealers charged over MSRP for the new Camaro, the demand would still exceed supply when delivery of the cars begins in March 2009. And there would then be at minimum several individuals taking delivery of their new Camaros at MSRP and immediately re-selling them for thousands more on eBay and Craigslist. Those individuals re-selling to take advantage of market value would be the actual scalpers - not the Chevy dealers.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by fldrummer

Well, if you find one in Florida, please let us know, 'cuz I haven't had any luck so far.

I haven't been able to find any in Florida so I ordered online with a $500 refundable deposit that honor's military discount, supplier discount and GM employee discount. However since Kendall Chevrolet stalled my purchase for almost three weeks, I am not one of the guaranteed 65 that were allotted however there is a good chance I'll get mine on the first production run according to the salesman. Talk to camaro scotty and he'll be able to help you find someone trustworthy.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

Your particular situation could indeed have been a bait-and-switch, but more likely was the result of the general manager not authorizing the deal his salesman had been offering to you. $500 below MSRP is a good selling price for the dealership on most cars, but not for the first offering of a specialty car model where demand will far exceed supply for the first few months. Your salesman may have just assumed his manager would approve this deal on the Camaro. But the manager knew the dealership should be able to get much more for the early production 2010 Camaros.

There are honest and reputable dealers who recognize that the few new Camaros they have been allotted can command pricing over MSRP until supply catches up with demand. Someone on Camaro5 likened these dealers to ticket scalpers. Car dealers are actually more like ticket brokers, in that both types of businesses have established locations and both can legally sell their commodities for more or less than suggested retail (MSRP for car dealers versus face value for ticket brokers). The clients willing to pay more to either of these two businesses are not the customers looking to pre-order in advance, but are the customers who wait until the cars are in the showrooms or look for tickets just before the day of the game (or other event). If absolutely NO car dealers charged over MSRP for the new Camaro, the demand would still exceed supply when delivery of the cars begins in March 2009. And there would then be at minimum several individuals taking delivery of their new Camaros at MSRP and immediately re-selling them for thousands more on eBay and Craigslist. Those individuals re-selling to take advantage of market value would be the actual scalpers - not the Chevy dealers.

It definitely was a bait and switch since for a couple weeks the salesman had been talking to the manager about me and the manager knew about the $500 below msrp offered to me. At any time the salesman over the phone could have told me they weren't honoring what he promised. Furthermore the first time I went with my wife, the salesman had talked to the manager and they supposedly needed to get more info on msrp which I gave them since I printed it out and it is not something that would have been hard to come by since it had been released a week earlier. A week and a half later and I've been calling every day to find out if they were ready for me to come over and one day he said he was ready so I went. If Scott Fbodfather was there with me and saw the way this dealer treated me and knew how they acted the weeks on end giving me hope of an order at $500 below msrp, I think Chevy would not have anything to do with this company and revoke their franchise status. Apparently Kendall Chevrolet has a bunch of dealerships around the country and I haven't bothered to find out the others.. They wanted me there and kept me waiting so I would be forced to pay over msrp if I wanted one guaranteed. I told them they had just lost a customer and also told them I would post this experience on every camaro forum available that I was a member of. The manager said he doesn't care in my face and I walked off extremely upset but kept my cool.

[StuMac]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

Your particular situation could indeed have been a bait-and-switch, but more likely was the result of the general manager not authorizing the deal his salesman had been offering to you. $500 below MSRP is a good selling price for the dealership on most cars, but not for the first offering of a specialty car model where demand will far exceed supply for the first few months. Your salesman may have just assumed his manager would approve this deal on the Camaro. But the manager knew the dealership should be able to get much more for the early production 2010 Camaros.

No, this is not a specialty car, it is designed for mass production, ready to sell 100,000 per year and they can probably make more as demand allows. Of course they want an accurate tally of demand, hence the pre-orders.

There are honest and reputable dealers who recognize that the few new Camaros they have been allotted can command pricing over MSRP until supply catches up with demand. Someone on Camaro5 likened these dealers to ticket scalpers. Car dealers are actually more like ticket brokers, in that both types of businesses have established locations and both can legally sell their commodities for more or less than suggested retail (MSRP for car dealers versus face value for ticket brokers). The clients willing to pay more to either of these two businesses are not the customers looking to pre-order in advance, but are the customers who wait until the cars are in the showrooms or look for tickets just before the day of the game (or other event). If absolutely NO car dealers charged over MSRP for the new Camaro, the demand would still exceed supply when delivery of the cars begins in March 2009. And there would then be at minimum several individuals taking delivery of their new Camaros at MSRP and immediately re-selling them for thousands more on eBay and Craigslist. Those individuals re-selling to take advantage of market value would be the actual scalpers - not the Chevy dealers.

So what you're saying is the pre-order markup is the cheap stuff and in March when some of these actually hit the lot we'll see the really heavy gouging? And yes, reputable dealers recognize they can sell their limited allocation at higher than MSRP, what makes them reputable is that they decline to do so in favour of quick, easy sales.

I really hope next year's allocation is based on how quickly a dealership sold out of cars in the first 6 months. The people who sold at MSRP and sold out of their allocation before the car even hit the floor get tons more and the ones with overpriced models sitting on the lot don't have their allocation numbers changed, even though it now covers 12 months instead of 6. Come Sept, I hope every dealership gets exactly what it deserves.

And before I get visited by the fbodyfather for having to state again they can't take allocations away, this isn't that at all. This is simply adjusting next year's allocations "to meet market demand". After all this is a new car and GM can't be expected to get the distribution right the first time.

[TAG UR IT]

guaranteed customer = me.

When I have purchased 4 cars from Ancira Winton and they told me over and over they wanted to keep me as a life long customer (guaranteed customer).....BUT, after PROMISING me $1,000 below MSRP, they turn around and say...."Oh, I can't do that. My manager would not be too happy with that. In fact, they are now going for 2k over LT and 5K over on SS."

Since 1998, ALL of my cars have come from Ancira. NOT THIS TIME.

I don't know why I'm upset anyways....I was already ordering through Tom Henry...and was only calling Ancira because I wanted to see if I could pass along the offer from Ancira to my boss. Obviously THAT won't happen!

That's what I mean by guaranteed. Someone who has history and WILL purchase again.

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Guaranteed customer = me. I have purchased 4 cars from Ancira Winton. Since 1998, ALL of my cars have come from Ancira. NOT THIS TIME. That's what I mean by guaranteed. Someone who has history and WILL purchase again.

So a guaranteed customer = a repeat customer. As long as you get the deal you want. If not, then you'll buy elsewhere. Which doesn't sound like much of a guaranteed customer to me.

Originally Posted by StuMac

This is not a specialty car, it is designed for mass production, ready to sell 100,000 per year and they can probably make more as demand allows. And yes, reputable dealers recognize they can sell their limited allocation at higher than MSRP. What makes them reputable is that they decline to do so in favour of quick, easy sales.

I agree the Camaro is not a limited production car. But as a new model 2-door RWD performance coupe it is indeed a specialty car. The Prius is not a limited production car, either. Toyota has now sold over a million of them worldwide. But as an eco-friendly hybrid it also is a specialty car, and there were waiting lists and markups for months when it was released in America.

The reputable dealer who has been allocated 63 Camaros may choose to sell at MSRP to insure "quick, easy sales" of many cars. But the also reputable dealer who has only been allocated a scant few Camaros over the next several months cannot justify selling one at MSRP when there are other customers willing to pay thousands over when deliveries begin in March 2009.

[jojohn33]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

So a guaranteed customer = a repeat customer. As long as you get the deal you want. If not, then you'll buy elsewhere. Which doesn't sound like much of a guaranteed customer to me.



I agree the Camaro is not a limited production car. But as a new model 2-door RWD performance coupe it is indeed a specialty car. The Prius is not a limited production car, either. Toyota has now sold over a million of them worldwide. But as an eco-friendly hybrid it also is a specialty car, and there were waiting lists and markups for months when it was released in America.

The reputable dealer who has been allocated 63 Camaros may choose to sell at MSRP to insure "quick, easy sales" of many cars. But the also reputable dealer who has only been allocated a scant few Camaros over the next several months cannot justify selling one at MSRP when there are other customers willing to pay thousands over when deliveries begin in March 2009.

thanks for clearing that up

[blindingillusion]

Hi Joshua,

Thanks for your interest in the Camaro and in our dealership. We really can't give a definite price on the new Camaros, but I talked to my sales manager and we won't be selling ours at or under MSRP. If you'd like, I can contact you when we do find out what our pricing will be.


Lundy Bailey
Internet Sales Manager
Northside Chevrolet
304-872-3214

There you have it folks.

Northside Chevrolet
Summersville, WV 26651
(888) 881-5248
www.northside-chevrolet.com

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

The Camaro is not a limited production car. But as a new model 2-door RWD performance coupe it is indeed a specialty car. The Prius is not a limited production car, either. Toyota has now sold over a million of them worldwide. But as an eco-friendly hybrid it also is a specialty car, and there were waiting lists and markups for months when it was released in America.

Originally Posted by jojohn33

Thanks for clearing that up.

Didn't realize I would have to explain further. Thought I had covered it with my example of the Prius, which is also a specialty car but not a limited production car.

Any new specialty car can command a markup over sticker until supply catches up with demand. Cars with true limited production (like the ZR-1 and GT-R) can support the markups for a much longer time.

[onsite h2o]

MAXIE PRICE(pretty fun name for a dealer) now that Ive typed it

They were close to me, so I called to place order they called back and said no sweat, 15k deposit and 10k over MSRP without even taking a breath. I told the guy about this forum he went on and said let me see what we can do Il call you tommorrow, never calledso bye bye. I placed my order thru Kevin all the way up in Michigan at Al Serra Autoplex, the drive back to georgia down I75 will be a blast(especially with
10K saved)

Ive seen some bad stuff on Maxie over on the Corvette boards, but I know they do sell a bunch of cars price gouging good Chevy supporters or not. Im just choosing not to be an idiot. Sure gonna be hard for Camaros to complete for the Mustang market with a 10k over MSRP tag. Hopefully GM will slap these kind of dealers or pull their allocations.

[UCF w00t]

Holler Chevrolet
1970 State Road 436
Winter Park, FL 32792
Sales: 407-645-4969

$1500 over.

[Super83Z]

GM has a public perception problem. These Dealerships make that worse. GM should look at this list and shut them down. Try being part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

[pointer lover]

Does anyone know a MSRP for the 2SS/RS fully loaded . I flew to Pheonix to talk with dealer their offer was 2k non refunable and pay full MSRP but could not even give a round about figure for it. dealer was Therobred chev in Chandler Az. They wanted me to sign with a blank MSRP. I just want a straight offer.

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by pointer lover

MSRP for the 2SS/RS fully loaded?

$34,180 base MSRP for 2SS ($33,430 + $750 destination)
+ $1,200 for RS option package
+ $470 for optional polished 20" rims

Then it can get tricky:
+ $395 or $470 or $510 for stripes depending on style and dealer or factory applied
+ $995 if you want automatic trans
+ $900 if you want sunroof
+ $380 if you want dealer installed Hurst short throw shifter
+ $295 if you want red jewel tintcoat (the only extra cost exterior paint)
+ $500 if you want orange interior trim package

Let's say you want a black 2SS with orange stripes (or an orange 2SS with black stripes). Plus the orange interior trim, the RS package, the polished 20s, and the Hurst shifter. MSRP would come to $36,450 + TTL. Add another thousand or two if you want automatic trans or sunroof (or both). This is pretty loaded, but still does not include all possible options.

[pointer lover]

so given what you have said does the dealer have to honor the prices given? yes sunroof and manual shift must feel the horses dont know what TTL is

[hw]

Hey onsite h2o, I don't know if you are locked into your order in Michigan, but you might want to check a little closer to home. I placed my order with John Miles Chevrolet, in Conyers, Georgia. Talk to James Anderson. I ordered a 2SS at MSRP.

[Rodrunner]

Originally Posted by pointer lover

so given what you have said does the dealer have to honor the prices given? yes sunroof and manual shift must feel the horses dont know what TTL is

TTL = Tax Title License And note: the tax is going to be a lot on 30k+

Those prices are MSRP. Dealer does not have to sell the car for that price. Many are seizing the opportunity to make an extra buck and are marking up the SS model's base price from $2500 to $10000. Options are hardly ever marked up, but...

2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08