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Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission Tune and diagnostics for engines and auto transmission.

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Old 01-27-2010, 10:40 PM   #26
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:43 PM   #27
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Tuning from Trifecta in Washington is "guaranteed" to not be detectable. The software in your computer gets rewritten instead reflashed. The guy that does it is a former software writer from Microsoft. Im on the list for a group buy and I believe it's $240 plus shipping if you choose to do remote tuning via EZ flash cable. I have a few friends at a local dealership and will have them check my ECM after the tuning. I'll start a thread afterwards with the results as well as dyno numbers for comparison.

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Old 01-27-2010, 11:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
"most likely", "imply"....there is still a risk, even if it's never happened.

They are not undetectable, and I wish I could find the thread that proves it...
Dragon. The thread where the info is, is not public. Try looking in the other section. It's also in PM's. I think I copied and pasted them there.

Sadly, they won't believe us, unless we show it comes from a reputable source. You and I both know we can't do that. (or shouldn't)
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:26 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
Dragon. The thread where the info is, is not public. Try looking in the other section. It's also in PM's. I think I copied and pasted them there.

Sadly, they won't believe us, unless we show it comes from a reputable source. You and I both know we can't do that. (or shouldn't)
I believe you.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:33 PM   #30
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I believe you.



The truth is that, people have to understand that you have to pay to play. If you do anything to a car, that causes it to malfunction, it is your responsibility to take care of the cost to repair it.

A tune changes the parameters in which a car operates. Therefore, it can cause something to go wrong with your engine. If you want to get a tune, I would suggest using a reputable Tuner. Tuner being the key word. Not all speed shops have tuners that know what they are doing. If something happens to your car. Take it to your dealer and hope that it wasn't the tune that hurt it.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:39 PM   #31
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Here's a question: can they tell if you remove the ECM and replace it for warranty work?
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:48 PM   #32
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Here's a question: can they tell if you remove the ECM and replace it for warranty work?
If you have a different ECM than from factory, yes.

ECM's are tracked from factory and they know which serial number goes into which VIN on cars.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:57 PM   #33
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If you have a different ECM than from factory, yes.

ECM's are tracked from factory and they know which serial number goes into which VIN on cars.
Follow the scenario.

John's car comes with ECM 1. John buys ECM 2.

John gets headers, exhaust, intake, and a tune on ECM 2. ECM 1 sits in the garage.

John needs to visit the dealer. John reinstalls ECM 1. ECM 2 sits in the garage.

ECM 1 came with the car. The dealer scans ECM 1. Will the dealer detect a problem with ECM 1 or the potentially warranty-voiding presence of ECM 2?
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:02 AM   #34
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Follow the scenario.

John's car comes with ECM 1. John buys ECM 2.

John gets headers, exhaust, intake, and a tune on ECM 2. ECM 1 sits in the garage.

John needs to visit the dealer. John reinstalls ECM 1. ECM 2 sits in the garage.

ECM 1 came with the car. The dealer scans ECM 1. Will the dealer detect a problem with ECM 1 or the potentially warranty-voiding presence of ECM 2?
I've been asked this before and don't know how to fully explain since I myself am not an expert in this. But the way ot was explained to me made sense. Apperantly the ECM keeps a small portion that tracks the Oil Life System. Although, some would suggest that, it isn't the case. It plays a very small part in the OLS, but however small, it is there.
This means, that if you switch back and forth between ECM, the small part that plays a role in this will be off from the actual car milage displayed in the OLS.



Don't know if I explained that right. I always get flamed fortrying to explain this. But I'm not the GM engineer. That's just what I was told by one.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:04 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
I've been asked this before and don't know how to fully explain since I myself am not an expert in this. But the way ot was explained to me made sense. Apperantly the ECM keeps a small portion that tracks the Oil Life System. Although, some would suggest that, it isn't the case. It plays a very small part in the OLS, but however small, it is there.
This means, that if you switch back and forth between ECM, the small part that plays a role in this will be off from the actual car milage displayed in the OLS.



Don't know if I explained that right. I always get flamed fortrying to explain this. But I'm not the GM engineer. That's just what I was told by one.
Basically, your oil condition will have changed since the removal, so there will be some sort of problem in between. Do you think simply resetting the oil section of the DIC before removing and after reinstalling the original ECM might fix this? This way, both would read 100% oil life.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:07 AM   #36
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Basically, your oil condition will have changed since the removal, so there will be some sort of problem in between. Do you think simply resetting the oil section of the DIC before removing and after reinstalling the original ECM might fix this? This way, both would read 100% oil life.

Possibly, possibly not, I don't know. If it were me, I just wouldn't do it unless I knew I could pay the damage.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:30 AM   #37
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what does a tue do for the car? Im dumb about that stuff
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:31 AM   #38
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sorry...a tune???
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:35 AM   #39
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what does a tue do for the car? Im dumb about that stuff
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Originally Posted by duraclean View Post
sorry...a tune???
You're basically reprogramming the computer that monitors all of your sensors and the functions of your car. If you do it correctly, the car is faster and more efficient. If you do it incorrectly, stuff breaks.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:21 AM   #40
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This might be a little off topic but I purchased one of these Diablo tuners but I haven't installed it yet. I was waiting to get everything done at once. My question is, if I add Long tubes, Exhaust & Cold Air Intake will the Diablo be able to tune this the way I want it? Or will I have to still take it somewhere and have it profesionally tuned by someone that knows what their doing. Unlike me lol.
yes, you will be able to do some data logging and get your fueling and everything dialed in with the diablo tuner...

there are write-ups in the diablo GM forum that tells you how to do it...

for the LT headers tho, you'll need to get a quick custom tune whipped up in order to disable the rear O2 trouble codes... any diablosport CMR tune like myself or Ted Jannetty can do that for ya...

you can also have a more complete custom tune done (all via email and data logs) by either of us as well.
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:46 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by eynigush View Post
Tuning from Trifecta in Washington is "guaranteed" to not be detectable. The software in your computer gets rewritten instead reflashed. The guy that does it is a former software writer from Microsoft. Im on the list for a group buy and I believe it's $240 plus shipping if you choose to do remote tuning via EZ flash cable. I have a few friends at a local dealership and will have them check my ECM after the tuning. I'll start a thread afterwards with the results as well as dyno numbers for comparison.

--Eddie
And what does their "guarantee" say? Is it in writing and if so, what do they cover. My guess is IF they have said "guarantee" it just means they will send you your $240 back. That will go a real long way to paying for a denied motor claim....

I personally think it would be much more ethical to just put a disclaimer on the program package that says "Use of this product MAY void your powertrain warranty" and that makes anything a tuner does kosher in my book. Then it becomes just like cigarettes or alchohol...we know there are risks in using either product...and we decide whether we want to take the risk or not.

It is guarantees that really don't mean anything (not saying Trifecta's is this way...just a statement) that really irk me. It's like the roadside sign advertising a $20/month healthcare plan...sure it's a "healthcare plan" but try and find someone to honor it!
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Old 01-28-2010, 08:49 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Milk 1027 View Post
I've been asked this before and don't know how to fully explain since I myself am not an expert in this. But the way ot was explained to me made sense. Apperantly the ECM keeps a small portion that tracks the Oil Life System. Although, some would suggest that, it isn't the case. It plays a very small part in the OLS, but however small, it is there.
This means, that if you switch back and forth between ECM, the small part that plays a role in this will be off from the actual car milage displayed in the OLS.



Don't know if I explained that right. I always get flamed fortrying to explain this. But I'm not the GM engineer. That's just what I was told by one.

Thank you and dragoneye for trying to open people's eyes to reality. You have to pay to play and if you modify your car, you shouldn't expect me or any other GM owner to pay for the repairs related to your modified item. In reality, that is what happens.
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:15 AM   #43
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Unfortunately. :(


See, and forgive the laymen's terms, I know it's not called the "change code". BUT...the computer detects tampering. Be it tuning, or return to stock. It's sort of like that little white square on your cell phones that detect water penetration. The phone might dry, but that square will be purple forever....
I believe the term you are looking is check digit.
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:32 PM   #44
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My service Manager told me that on an engine warrenty claim GM want all the register codes from the ECM sent to the Factory. He explained that there are memory chips with offbeat codes that dont mean anything to the average guy but at the factory it would stick out like a sore thumb. I would think if you saved all the stock codes as in the Vector Motorsport system as long as those codes are put back into the correct places that it would satisfy the Dealer but I think GM Factory gurus can tell if something has been messed with. Likethe other thred says be afraid of the cable going to the Factory and not so much the dealer. The dealer has no idea what codes go where but Im sure the Factory computers can tell if things are messed with. I would think if you return the codes to stock the dealer probably wouldnt go the extra step of plugging into the Factory unless its a 10K engine to be replaced. Like other threads stated I havent heard of anyone being denied when returned to stock codes.
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:05 PM   #45
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the ecm does have a flash counter in it,, i have checked with gm GDS software with a MDI unit, and it is accutate to how many times ecm has been flashed.

so even if you put the factory program back in the ecm, this counter will still show how many times it was flashed, and it will still look fishy to gm that your ecm has been flashed X-number of times.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:27 PM   #46
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Maybe it might be a good idea to have your service dept flash your ride once or twice over a period of time, complaining that you have a drivability problem and you want them to flash it. It may not work but at least you will be in the system for complaining of a problem and showing the dealer flashed it a couple of times for you to try to satisfy you. That way if it does come up there will be an instance of a dealer flashing it.
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Old 04-23-2010, 06:57 PM   #47
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GM is concerned about increasing part failures related to non-GM engine and transmission control calibrations being used. A bulletin has been released from GM telling how to identify the presense of a non factory calibration. GM also recommends that the dealer perform this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on engine, transmission or if a catalytic converter is to be replaced. On the 2010 Camaro, the GDS system is used. It will list the LAST TEN calibration events. These include the Calibration part number and the Verification Number (checksum). This has to be sent to GM and within two hours the dealer will receive an email reply after the calibrations are verified by GM. Only then can the dealer perform service on the car under warranty.
Remember, if ONE BIT in the program is wrong, the checksum or Verification Number will be wrong! I hope this clears thing up a bit...
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:05 PM   #48
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Maybe it might be a good idea to have your service dept flash your ride once or twice over a period of time, complaining that you have a drivability problem and you want them to flash it. It may not work but at least you will be in the system for complaining of a problem and showing the dealer flashed it a couple of times for you to try to satisfy you. That way if it does come up there will be an instance of a dealer flashing it.
They wouldn't just flash your computer because you asked for it to be flashed. The only time they change the calibration is if there is a new calibration that has been released with a specific correction to a problem.
You wouldn't reflash an ECM with the same calibration it already has in it. That would be like changing your shorts by putting the same pair back on. Warranty won't pay for it either, they tend not to pay for things that don't accomplish anything.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:43 AM   #49
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Maybe it might be a good idea to have your service dept flash your ride once or twice over a period of time, complaining that you have a drivability problem and you want them to flash it. It may not work but at least you will be in the system for complaining of a problem and showing the dealer flashed it a couple of times for you to try to satisfy you. That way if it does come up there will be an instance of a dealer flashing it.
Most dealers are not going to "reflash" your PCM because you say you have a drivablility complaint. If there is an update you might get one if the update is for said problem, but if your cal is current then nothing will be "reflashed". Also if you just complain about BS symptoms then you are WASTING the techs time because he will not get paid if no problem is found!
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:21 AM   #50
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the ecm does have a flash counter in it,, i have checked with gm GDS software with a MDI unit, and it is accutate to how many times ecm has been flashed.

so even if you put the factory program back in the ecm, this counter will still show how many times it was flashed, and it will still look fishy to gm that your ecm has been flashed X-number of times.
I have also checked with our MDI and see none. I certainly see it on some diesel trucks, but not on this Gen 2 E38. I see the ability for it to be there when looking at the code, but it is not turned on.

The only count I ever see is the GM flash count. This is how many times it has been flashed with GM software. It does not show up with aftermarket software as it does not toggle the bit.
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