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Old 08-25-2008, 12:32 AM   #1
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Car and Driver drives V6 Camaro!

If this is a repost, delete it, but... OMG!
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http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review

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Attention, IROC-Z enthusiasts: the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro will not be available with your beloved T-top. If this is hugely disappointing, well, it may finally be time to put on a shirt with a collar, sell your Skynyrd CDs, and scissor the mullet.

In reviving the Camaro, Chevy is doing all it can to make the born-again car remind everyone of the sharp, cleanly styled 1967 original, rather than the more awkward later versions that seemed like accessories to tank-top wear and excesses in facial hair. This writer, the semi-proud owner of a 1995 Z28, knows intimately all the social assumptions that go with late-model Camaro ownership.

GM is of course milking the revival for as many stories as it can get from us, hence we got a first drive in a V-6-powered Camaro prototype, which we promptly piloted to the the Car and Driver 10Best loop in the Michigan woods. The V-8 experience will follow soon. Manipulative intentions aside, the point of our early exposure was also to prove that even the base Camaro is deserving of more enlightened consideration, while still being powerful and capable enough to rock your face.

As we noted in our September issue, the V-6 features direct injection and dual over-head cams, the rear suspension is an independent multilink, and both transmissions (an Aisin manual and a GM automatic) are six-speeds. Lest you think this setup is the sort of wine-and-cheese import-sedan formula that will make the Camaro a card-carrying metrosexual, Chevy promises the V-6 will make no fewer than 300 horse-power and that blasting from 0 to 60 mph should take 6.1 seconds, with the quarter-mile breezing by in 14.5 seconds at 97 mph.

Even if those numbers are conservative, the 3800-pound V-6 Camaro should easily out-drag the V-6 versions of the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger, but it will eat the dust of a lighter Ford Mustang Bullitt, a V-8, and the more powerful Dodge Challenger SRT8, both of which cover the quarter-mile about a second quicker.

Though the Camaro lacks the cojones to run with the big boys, it does make a compelling case as a decent sports car. Around the 10Best loop, the Camaro showed remarkable poise, with the suspension handling the pockmarked roads with hardly any disturbance to the cabin. The chassis is less jumpy than that of the Mustang but far more communicative than in the Challenger, and although the Camaro is nearly as wide as the Dodge it doesn’t feel as big.

We drove two different wheel-and-tire combinations: 18-inch wheels with BF Goodrich Traction T/As on an automatic-transmission car and 19-inch Pirelli PZero Neros with the manual; either choice has a section width of 245. When the Camaro goes on sale—the target is first day of March 2009—20-inch wheels and tires will be available with the RS package. At this point in the Camaro‘s development (about 99 per-cent complete, according to Chevy), the 18-inch tires are preferable, offering more steering feel and more predictable handling. On either set of tires, though, the Camaro turns in easily before setting into minor understeer that is easily cured with a stomp on the throttle. The engine responds willingly, although the high-pitched tone of the exhaust note feels out of place – our inner car lover appreciates the racy smoothness but our inner Camaro owner longs for the deep rumble of a V-8.

The Camaro will also come with two flavors of 6.2-liter V-8 producing 400 and 422 horsepower, but at a significant premium. The V-6, then, should be a relative bargain once prices are released closer to launch, but the high-tech engine, the suspension, and even the transmissions aren’t cheap. This V-6 is the optional powerplant offered in the Cadillac CTS (2009 base price, $37,855) and the suspension shares a lot with the Pontiac G8 (entry point: $27,995). V-6 versions of the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger start in the $21,000 to $22,000 range, and we expect the turbo-four model in the upcoming Hyundai Genesis Coupe range to be near that price as well. Despite claims that the Camaro will be competitive on price, it’s likely that the MSRP for the V-6 will be around $25,000. That undercuts the Challenger R/T and Mustang GT, but those cars come with the ego-boosting power of two extra cylinders.

Based on our early impressions, though, the Camaro outclasses its competitors on a few fronts. (Did you think it would one day be possible to see “Camaro” and “outclass” in the same sentence?) The ride quality of the Camaro doesn’t even rate a comparison with the lesser Mustang, and it makes the Challenger’s handling feel plodding.

Chevy is casting its new Camaro as a modernist sports coupe rather than a revisionist pony car, and their case holds water. That argument is backed up with an expected EPA highway fuel-economy rating of 26 mpg, which is 3 higher than the similarly powerful Mustang GT, and equal to the ratings for the Infiniti G37 and BMW 335i.

Where the entry-level Camaro has been placed—below the V-8s but above lesser-powered V-6s—might seem like a confusing market position, but its true to the Camaro’s social heritage. Like the mullet that is often associated with it, it looks like the V-6 Camaro will walk a fine line between classiness and savagery.

VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe

ESTIMATED BASE PRICE: $25,000

ENGINE TYPE: DOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 218 cu in, 3564cc
Power (mfr’s est): 300 bhp @ 6400 rpm
Torque (mfr’s est): 273 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm

TRANSMISSIONS: 6-speed automatic with manumatic shifting, 6-speed manual

DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 112.3 in Length: 190.4 in
Width: 75.5 in Height: 54.2 in
Curb weight: 3800 lb

PERFORMANCE (MFR’S EST, 6-SP MAN):
Zero to 60 mph: 6.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.5 sec @ 97 mph

PROJECTED FUEL ECONOMY (MFR’S EST):
EPA city driving: TBD mpg
EPA highway driving: TBD mpg
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:55 AM   #2
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This seems to be nothing but bashing. The V6 might be 25k, but that's fully optioned out. Plus, C&D got the chance to take it out to a test track, but still only used manufacturer's estimates on performance? Saying the Camaro can't run with the "big boys" (I use the term loosely) even though it's the V6 model? It's 2008 and they're still using mullet metaphors? What a worthless rag. I'll wait till a more reputable source gets ahold of it.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:20 AM   #3
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Well, some things car and driver does are a bit silly, but overall they seem fairly accurate to me. Pricing is definitely off, but they have to shoot high on that. They never post performance numbers on a first drive review, because thats what they call it when the manufacturer just lets them drive it, not test it (meaning no equipment to get times with other than a stopwatch) - but they did say that even though chevy says 6.1, it should be faster than the current mustang V6. And yes, sometimes they do have a bit of a dry humor.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:31 AM   #4
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if i can get a v6 lt rs fully optioned out for 25k that would be awsome

i would expect the v6 fully optioned out for 27k maybe 30k for a vert
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:36 AM   #5
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If you're spending $30k on a V6, I can't see this car being a success for GM. Even if the power numbers are similar, the V6 cannot be priced in the same range as the Mustang GT.
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:56 AM   #6
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This article clearly makes the V6 sound like a compromise, which is exactly what the V6 ought to be. It ain't no SS, but that's what makes me so excited about the SS. Imagine how good the V8 version is going to be. Anybody who expected the lower end V6 model to get a better review than this was kidding themselves.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
This seems to be nothing but bashing. The V6 might be 25k, but that's fully optioned out. Plus, C&D got the chance to take it out to a test track, but still only used manufacturer's estimates on performance? Saying the Camaro can't run with the "big boys" (I use the term loosely) even though it's the V6 model? It's 2008 and they're still using mullet metaphors? What a worthless rag. I'll wait till a more reputable source gets ahold of it.
I didn't see any bashing, everything I read was fair. The V6 can't run with the 'big boy' V8s but they do say it will "easily out-drag the V-6 versions of the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger." How can this be bashing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
2010 Chevrolet Camaro V-6 - Outclassing the Competitors
It seemed appropriate to me, the mullet comments were in reference to how its time for that association to go away. This is everything we want from the big car mags, giving the Camaro a fair chance as an all new car, not just assuming it a big, fast, poor handling and stopping, uncomfortable, gas guzzling muscle car.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:56 AM   #8
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Edmunds has their prototype review up as well.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=131090
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchinCamaro View Post
I didn't see any bashing, everything I read was fair. The V6 can't run with the 'big boy' V8s but they do say it will "easily out-drag the V-6 versions of the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger." How can this be bashing:It seemed appropriate to me, the mullet comments were in reference to how its time for that association to go away. This is everything we want from the big car mags, giving the Camaro a fair chance as an all new car, not just assuming it a big, fast, poor handling and stopping, uncomfortable, gas guzzling muscle car.
I agree....only bashing I read was about the Mustang and Challenger.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:04 AM   #10
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I though the Camaro was suppose to go on sale sooner? The first of March of 09? Is this right?
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:24 AM   #11
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This is the same magazine that it took them 10 minutes to put the top down on a Solstice....
takes me 20-30 seconds on my Sky and has never taken more than a minute even the very first time i did it.

I call it "Car and Drivel" magazine.
Don't even work good for Toilet paper or bird cage liner LOL
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:39 AM   #12
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I believe Fbodfather himself said that 25k for the V6 was a very bad guess.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:16 AM   #13
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I think its a good article. They liked the Camaro V6. If it can run 0-60 in 6 flat thats great. And the car handles great. It also says BASE price or $25k. I think a fully LOADED V6 LT/RS will be around $29k. A LOADED SS/RS manual will be about $38k.

I HOPE they are less, but I don't think so. I WILL pay up to $40k.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:20 AM   #14
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I thought it seemed to be a pretty objective review. I can't wait for an SS review
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by JEFF2010SSMANUAL View Post
It also says BASE price or $25k. I think a fully LOADED V6 LT/RS will be around $29k.
If so then Chevy just lost a potential customer. But like somebody mentioned before, I think Fbodf said that 25k isn't correct.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:27 AM   #16
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^^ i think its been mentioned before that pricing will be competitive in the pony car market.... 29k for an optioned out v6 is by no means competitive. expect the v6 base to be around the 22k mark and fully optioned at around 26k but thats my best guess on info given.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:41 AM   #17
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I HOPE I AM WRONG. I can't see a loaded V6 LT/RS with the CTS DI engine being so cheap. A stripped CTS is $34k. $49k loaded.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:49 AM   #18
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I HOPE I AM WRONG. I can't see a loaded V6 LT/RS with the CTS DI engine being so cheap. A stripped CTS is $34k. $49k loaded.
One thing It's not a Caddy, It's a Chevy......
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JEFF2010SSMANUAL View Post
I think its a good article. They liked the Camaro V6. If it can run 0-60 in 6 flat thats great. And the car handles great. It also says BASE price or $25k. I think a fully LOADED V6 LT/RS will be around $29k. A LOADED SS/RS manual will be about $38k.

I HOPE they are less, but I don't think so. I WILL pay up to $40k.
My fully loaded Mustang GT was 29k, so GM would be committing suicide with that price.

Maybe you'd spend 38k for a Camaro SS, but very few others would. Especially when I can get a new Corvette for a couple thousand more.

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Old 08-25-2008, 11:18 AM   #20
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Like I said, I HOPE I AM VERY WRONG.

If I can get the SS/RS manual Camaro loaded without the silly stickout of the roof sunroof for $35k I will be VERY HAPPY.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:37 AM   #21
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I love how they made it sound like the Iroc was the only camaro with t-tops. lol

I hate the stereotype of mullets and stupid redneck crap with camaros. Its just dumb, they need to get over it. It is not 1980 anymore.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:16 PM   #22
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This seems to be nothing but bashing. The V6 might be 25k, but that's fully optioned out. Plus, C&D got the chance to take it out to a test track, but still only used manufacturer's estimates on performance? Saying the Camaro can't run with the "big boys" (I use the term loosely) even though it's the V6 model? It's 2008 and they're still using mullet metaphors? What a worthless rag. I'll wait till a more reputable source gets ahold of it.
How do you know what the price is? It isnt official. So it could be 22k 25k or 19k NO ONE KNOWS. Car and driver is great and to me the least bias of all the magazines.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:25 PM   #23
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I don't think it would be asking too much to have it priced right between a base and a Mustang GT. I mean, you'll be getting close to the same acceleration, and I'm sure better handling, hands-down. That's only the performance end, as I'm sure ergonimically, it will be superior also. Now, is that a reasonable price to those in the market, maybe not. I'll have to really represent itself well, IMHO. I'm confident GM won't shoot themselves in the foot though.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:31 PM   #24
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How do you know what the price is? It isnt official. So it could be 22k 25k or 19k NO ONE KNOWS. Car and driver is great and to me the least bias of all the magazines.
wow, did you actually read that article? or wait... are you joking?

Scott even said that $25k was a bad guess for the price of the v6
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:23 PM   #25
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wow, did you actually read that article? or wait... are you joking?

Scott even said that $25k was a bad guess for the price of the v6
If you cant take a mullet joke than that might be the problem..... lol jk
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