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Old 08-25-2008, 10:51 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Interesting that some people see things one way and some another......

The base headlamp is a reflector optic lamp -- which means very good light coverage at a reasonable price. (go check out a 98/02 Firebird versus a 98/02 Camaro -- try 'em both out at night while in a dark parking lot.....-- you'll see what I mean...)

The Halo headlamps are expen$$ive -- and it's crucial that we bring this car in at a very reasonable price.

Headlamps must perform -- but it's also a feature that some don't care about........just as long as they perform well at night!............so it makes sense to include them in the RS package.
Just thought I'd clarify that even with the, to use my own terms, 'cheap and mundane' looking headlights it's a fantastic looking car. No offense was intended.

I just MUCH prefer the look of the halo's.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:53 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
OK -- repeat after me: NOT $40,000 !

The dealer is guessing. We have not announced pricing and we don't intend to until around the first of the year.

NOT $40,000 -- this car will be very affordable.
These words keep me hoping against hope the Camaro is going to shock us all with it's final price(s). About $35/36,000 is my limit.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:54 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Beyond Limits View Post
Hot damn... cross drilled rotors.
That was a picture of the Camaro Concept...just FYI...not the production version. You can tell by the 22 inch wheels...the custom cut goodyear tires...the open side vents...and the skinny side-view mirrors...just to name a few things.

But that doesn't mean we won't be able to have cross-drilled rotors on the Brembo equipped SS!


Edit:...dang it Dragon...you beat me! I added a few more reasons, though
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:59 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Interesting that some people see things one way and some another......

The base headlamp is a reflector optic lamp -- which means very good light coverage at a reasonable price. (go check out a 98/02 Firebird versus a 98/02 Camaro -- try 'em both out at night while in a dark parking lot.....-- you'll see what I mean...)

The Halo headlamps are expen$$ive -- and it's crucial that we bring this car in at a very reasonable price.

Headlamps must perform -- but it's also a feature that some don't care about........just as long as they perform well at night!............so it makes sense to include them in the RS package.
Since some of the pieces of the RS package are for the v6, but otherwise standard on the SS, will the RS package be cheaper for the SS customers?
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:57 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
well -- we learned a long time ago (unlike some people we won't mention....) that there is this thing called a "Dyno" -- and if you advertise a horsepower, you'd better be SURE you can deliver.


If we advertise 422hp -- you can write it in Granny's Bible that all cars will have at least 422 hp with that particular engine.
Even on something as notoriously conservative as a Mustang Dyno? I know, the name alone means the car shouldn't be on it, but c'mon! Oh, and I'll just pretend to not realized what company, erm...I mean "people" you're talking about.
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:25 AM   #231
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Wow this car looks great! I would place SS badging on the side as well instead of Camaro. Or "Camaro SS" badges.
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:58 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
well -- we learned a long time ago (unlike some people we won't mention....) that there is this thing called a "Dyno" -- and if you advertise a horsepower, you'd better be SURE you can deliver.


If we advertise 422hp -- you can write it in Granny's Bible that all cars will have at least 422 hp with that particular engine.
Man, Scott, I LOVE you're style!!

Subtle, but only enough to leave me giddy as a schoolgirl waitin' for this car! :P
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:34 AM   #233
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man i dont know about you guys but i want to see the SS WHip some s5 and m3 ass. oh yeah and the 350 and g37
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:47 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The Vette new Camaro comparisons are in some ways inappropriate. If you removed the rear seats from a Camaro the weight would come down -- within a couple of hundred pounds. As it stands it is 700 pounds more than the Vette. The Camaro is a much larger vehicle.

Body 16" Longer
Wheel Base 6" Longer
Track 1" Wider
These are all rounded numbers.

What do you get for 700 pounds? You get a much larger interior and trunk would be the shallow reply. The more in depth reply would be the new Camaro is more luxury GT than two seat super car -- BUT the Camaro will perform in many ways like the smaller and lighter Vette. GM invested almost two billion dollars to bring the new Camaro to the showroom between the development of ZETA and and the update of the line to build the Camaro. The chassis is solid as a rock. The most structurally sound monocoque chassis in the GM car family is either ZETA or 322 (CTS) depending on who you talk to. The Camaro is a revised ZETA. ZETA II is tighter than ZETA -- more structurally sound with small refinements to handle more powerful engines, brakes and larger tire and wheel packages. It will deliver with higher spring and damping rates than the Pontiac G8 with a lower stance. It will handle very well in the twisties and feel much lighter than the curb weight.

Unlike any other Camaro ever built the car will be rock solid. The virtual pivot points in the front suspension move the front wheel pivot to the outer side of the wheel. This increases the stability of the front wheels in aggressive manoeuvres. The IRS has NO wheel hop -- NONE. In OE trim the Camaro will be the best hand lining Camaro ever built by GM. It is a stunning performer.

A reference was made earlier in the thread to suspension modifications. Something along the lines of why buy a new car that needs suspension work? Good question. The need is relative. The car will drive like a dream from the factory. With some suspension tweaks it drives like the same dream on steroids. I have probably said this before so excuse me for saying it again. Until you actually drive a ZETA vehicle you can't imagine what you will be getting in a Camaro. Test drive a G8 at your local Pontiac store to get an idea. Keep in mind the Camaro will wear larger tires and wheels, with more aggressive suspension tuning so it is only a hint at what the Camaro will be. GM may be slow to market with the ZETA II Camaro, but it will be worth the wait and the price of admission. You'll get a Camaro that is solid, stable and fast -- easy to drive fast -- very fast. You'll be able to run a road course with a Camaro and three of your best friends -- almost as fast as a Vette.
Excellent info, thanks!
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Old 08-26-2008, 04:02 AM   #235
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400-500 lbs to loose? I'm thinking....remove useless 5 mph crash beams, all trunk lining/insulation/spare tire/jack, all airbags and associated deployment, goto a mini battery, sound system delete, replace probable heavy cast 20's w/ 18-19" 3 piece wheels and resonated exhaust instead of the heavy(looking) rear muffs. If your really racing then back seat and more interior paneling delete including console for a possible 3150-3250 car.
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:15 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by wlvrine View Post
Hey Kevin,
Do you know how long the Camaro will be up there in the Spring Mountains??
I'm not too far from there.
...missed your post until this morning...
Those photos were taken Aug 6-7th, ...the cars were there during that time frame. Where abouts in LV are you located? ...I was there until the 12th visiting my brother (who lives in the Charleston/Rainbow area).
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:24 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by EllwynX View Post
Really? I respect your opinion, but when I look at the non-halo headlights they just looks mundane and cheap to me. They actually look no more high class than those on my Aveo...
To each his own. I don't like halo headlights and am glad they aren't standard equipment.
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:31 AM   #238
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something I noticed

Hey, um, did anyone else notice that the convertible GM has on the camaro website seems to have the same grille as the SS in these photos? The only differences I can see are that it has Halo headlights and the bowtie is absent. (well that and there's no SS badge that I can see. ) Any thoughts?

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/insi...y/?id=cid00016
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:37 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by fierodeletre View Post
Hey, um, did anyone else notice that the convertible GM has on the camaro website seems to have the same grille as the SS in these photos? The only differences I can see are that it has Halo headlights and the bowtie is absent. (well that and there's no SS badge that I can see. ) Any thoughts?

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/insi...y/?id=cid00016
...halo's = RS, ...and upper fascia slit = SS. Hence RS/SS vert...
(as with many early photos, ...some things get 'missed', ...car is missing it's grill badge. Unless it's there and I can't see it either)
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:49 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
OK -- repeat after me: NOT $40,000 !

The dealer is guessing. We have not announced pricing and we don't intend to until around the first of the year.

NOT $40,000 -- this car will be very affordable.
You da man Scott I'm gonna print this out and take it with me to the dealer when we do my build. I'll lay it on the desk and every time we add an option I'll tap on the piece of paper and say to the salesperson....read it...read it!

It is really great to have you chime in on the price of the SS as there have been a lot of skeptics, myself included about a price under 40K.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:25 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The Vette new Camaro comparisons are in some ways inappropriate. If you removed the rear seats from a Camaro the weight would come down -- within a couple of hundred pounds. As it stands it is 700 pounds more than the Vette. The Camaro is a much larger vehicle.

Body 16" Longer
Wheel Base 6" Longer
Track 1" Wider
These are all rounded numbers.

What do you get for 700 pounds? You get a much larger interior and trunk would be the shallow reply. The more in depth reply would be the new Camaro is more luxury GT than two seat super car -- BUT the Camaro will perform in many ways like the smaller and lighter Vette. GM invested almost two billion dollars to bring the new Camaro to the showroom between the development of ZETA and and the update of the line to build the Camaro. The chassis is solid as a rock. The most structurally sound monocoque chassis in the GM car family is either ZETA or 322 (CTS) depending on who you talk to. The Camaro is a revised ZETA. ZETA II is tighter than ZETA -- more structurally sound with small refinements to handle more powerful engines, brakes and larger tire and wheel packages. It will deliver with higher spring and damping rates than the Pontiac G8 with a lower stance. It will handle very well in the twisties and feel much lighter than the curb weight.

Unlike any other Camaro ever built the car will be rock solid. The virtual pivot points in the front suspension move the front wheel pivot to the outer side of the wheel. This increases the stability of the front wheels in aggressive manoeuvres. The IRS has NO wheel hop -- NONE. In OE trim the Camaro will be the best hand lining Camaro ever built by GM. It is a stunning performer.

A reference was made earlier in the thread to suspension modifications. Something along the lines of why buy a new car that needs suspension work? Good question. The need is relative. The car will drive like a dream from the factory. With some suspension tweaks it drives like the same dream on steroids. I have probably said this before so excuse me for saying it again. Until you actually drive a ZETA vehicle you can't imagine what you will be getting in a Camaro. Test drive a G8 at your local Pontiac store to get an idea. Keep in mind the Camaro will wear larger tires and wheels, with more aggressive suspension tuning so it is only a hint at what the Camaro will be. GM may be slow to market with the ZETA II Camaro, but it will be worth the wait and the price of admission. You'll get a Camaro that is solid, stable and fast -- easy to drive fast -- very fast. You'll be able to run a road course with a Camaro and three of your best friends -- almost as fast as a Vette.

I agree with you on many of your points here. What i want to see is apples to apples comparison. How about some official times on the 'Ring to see what the ZETA II platform under the camaro can do, compare that to a base Z51 and if they are close, you're points are right on. I have not seen anything on the Camaro at the 'Ring other than the one occasion that engineers were running the SS lightly a few months ago. When they going to have the barn burning session like the ZR-1. I would really like to see GM post some numbers for the people that are curious about it's performance around a benchmark track.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:26 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by chevydude26 View Post
I was just like you when the first pics started coming out...my biggest critique was the front bumper...

mirrors...well concept mirrors were no where near legal

rear quarter panels i'm certain can be changed to look more concept like

height is an inch more and yes that bothered me too but those damn regulations wouldn't allow it to stay lower...peters the designer fought hard but in the end lost that battle sadly

and any length related issues i believe are due to the the car being taller which will affect the dimensions as the grill looks shorter in the production and not as wide as the concept...

but is that a deal breaker for me...absolutely not...compare it to a mustang and it looks like its a whole other class of car...

is it exactly the concept not really...but its still a hell of a car that will turn heads...and if you have the time and patience you can get it looking pretty close to the concept...


I agree with this 100%. Even though I dislike the SS bumper vs the V6/RS, it does not look bad by any stretch of the imagination. It just looks different.. The difference is why I don't like it as much as the V6 bumper which stays more true to the concept. I'm very glad to finally get to see pictures of the base SS in all its glory and have to say thank you for providing them.

I know that both look amazing and will turn heads and all of that, however because my brain is liking the look of the V6 bumper better, I'm going to have a tough time figuring out if I want looks and accessories that I like better which comes out cheaper and more affordable vs raw speed and power that I can get with the V8.

I'm having a very hard time believing that I will be disappointed while I'm driving my new V8 SS and seeing a V6/RS look nicer driving by but knowing I have a better overall machine. This is my dilemma I face and even I don't understand why it is making me second guess buying the obviously better version of the car..

As for pricing, this is going to be even more difficult if the price of a fully loaded V6/RS with the higher end audio and halo headlights comes out cheaper than the base SS V8.. Decisions decisions... Thanks again for posting the pics of the new SS. The very artistic shots make the car look iconic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhed View Post
I agree with you on many of your points here. What i want to see is apples to apples comparison. How about some official times on the 'Ring to see what the ZETA II platform under the camaro can do, compare that to a base Z51 and if they are close, you're points are right on. I have not seen anything on the Camaro at the 'Ring other than the one occasion that engineers were running the SS lightly a few months ago. When they going to have the barn burning session like the ZR-1. I would really like to see GM post some numbers for the people that are curious about it's performance around a benchmark track.
I think all of us want to see actual performance numbers for all the models and we know we will get them, it's just a matter of when..

After taking a second look at the these SS pictures, I have made one of them my new desktop. I'm going to drool over the silver base SS until I forget about the silly bumper issue.. For all you photoshop people, please make this SS in blue, obviously in the photoshop thread
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:33 AM   #243
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Looks amazing, I can't wait to own one!
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:39 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Interesting that some people see things one way and some another......

The base headlamp is a reflector optic lamp -- which means very good light coverage at a reasonable price. (go check out a 98/02 Firebird versus a 98/02 Camaro -- try 'em both out at night while in a dark parking lot.....-- you'll see what I mean...)

The Halo headlamps are expen$$ive -- and it's crucial that we bring this car in at a very reasonable price.

Headlamps must perform -- but it's also a feature that some don't care about........just as long as they perform well at night!............so it makes sense to include them in the RS package.
Scott,

Soooooo glad you guys made it an option for HID/Projector setup...i think there will be more demand than estimated on this option.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:43 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Z/28orSs View Post
man i dont know about you guys but i want to see the SS WHip some s5 and m3 ass. oh yeah and the 350 and g37

You mean the 370? By the time this hits the street there will be more of a fight from the guys across the pond. The german boys have gotten really fat as of late, so i would expect the camaro to hold tight against the rich boys.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:46 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by 06TBSS View Post
400-500 lbs to loose? I'm thinking....remove useless 5 mph crash beams, all trunk lining/insulation/spare tire/jack, all airbags and associated deployment, goto a mini battery, sound system delete, replace probable heavy cast 20's w/ 18-19" 3 piece wheels and resonated exhaust instead of the heavy(looking) rear muffs. If your really racing then back seat and more interior paneling delete including console for a possible 3150-3250 car.
If you're doing this to a new $35K car, you have too much time and money on your hands. A sports car without a back seat for a spec track car, or a 8-15 year old model.....sure.

PS - you forgot to add the custom rollbar. ;-)
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:59 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
The rims will be the same just a different tint (darker), the body moulding on the roof will change from black(standard) to body color(rs package), rear spoiler stays the same (its an upgrade for the V6), Halos, tail lamps will be tinted (darker like the wheels) and badges...

Think thats everything...
Thank you man... so that shall mean that RS package for the SS shall cost WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY less...
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:04 AM   #248
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Thumbs up WOW

Looks awesome is the SS Camaro a little bit small next
to the Vette are is it just me are the pic. ???
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:41 AM   #249
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Looks awesome is the SS Camaro a little bit small next
to the Vette are is it just me are the pic. ???
what does this are mean?.
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:53 AM   #250
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Amen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matster View Post
You da man Scott I'm gonna print this out and take it with me to the dealer when we do my build. I'll lay it on the desk and every time we add an option I'll tap on the piece of paper and say to the salesperson....read it...read it!

It is really great to have you chime in on the price of the SS as there have been a lot of skeptics, myself included about a price under 40K.
Amen!
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