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Old 08-26-2008, 11:50 PM   #1
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The Proliferation of Super Sport

A lot of discussion has taken place in this forum regarding the history of Chevrolet's legendary Super Sport trim. There is overwhelming support for the Camaro and certain other vehicles to have the SS moniker, but not everyone is behind Chevrolet's perceived expansion of its signature trim.

Why does it matter? For some of you, it means that the SS moniker has lost its meaning. As Camaro enthusiasts, we have a special calling with the Z28, and we tend to support that trim over any other. It's easy to forget about the importance of the SS to the Camaro because it becomes bland when more than one SS is brought onto the stage. At one time, the SS represented V8 muscle. For many, that meaning has faded with time, but I want to remind everyone why the SS is still important to the Chevrolet strategy, even if GM hasn't hired me to say so.

Super Sports are superior to the competition. That is the general idea. The biggest competition in performance in the American market used to be muscle cars. When powerful V8s dominated the market, only cars like the Chevelle would get such a label. With the invasion of imports featuring lower power ratings but higher efficiency, American V8s suddenly lost their competitive edge. They were so far below the classic V8 in power that many of these imports only competed with one another in the performance department. While they competed with different features, import brands would not represent equal counterparts on the track.

Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Toyota all introduced their respective super trims. They battled in the 4-cylinder department, and those legendary American brands didn't seem to matter anymore. Their overwhelming power didn't seem to matter in comparison, and that power dropped over time. Eventually, American brands developed 4-cylinder cars that sought to compete with the foreign brands. As a result, Chevrolet needed to reinvent itself for a new generation of competition. If they introduce new monikers, the classic ones grow old and outdated. By reinventing the SS as representing top-tier performance in every division, Chevrolet can leave a mark on every track, whether that track tends to host big V8s or low-displacement 4-bangers.

Chevrolet wants the SS to mean something, so those of you that think the SS moniker has gone too far need to take a close look at the numbers. When Chevrolet produces vehicles that bear the SS label, they dominate their class. Cars like the Cobalt SS and HHR SS, even if they seem average, prove their metal on the track and beat so many cars in and out of their class that it is hard to make exceptions. They all deserve the name, so why should Chevrolet take the Super Sport out of any of their cars?
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:01 AM   #2
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good point...well spoken...props
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:10 AM   #3
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You know what you just started right?

Lets see if I can make a prediction.

SS>Z28

No way Z28>SS

dumb A$$ SS>Z28

you're so full of @#$% Z28>SS

Mod: Ok play nice you bunch of !@#$!@#$!#$%@#$%

Ok ok but the SS is still > Z28











LOL Ahh I kill myself...
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
You know what you just started right?

Lets see if I can make a prediction.

SS>Z28

No way Z28>SS

dumb A$$ SS>Z28

you're so full of @#$% Z28>SS

Mod: Ok play nice you bunch of !@#$!@#$!#$%@#$%

Ok ok but the SS is still > Z28











LOL Ahh I kill myself...
Z/28 > SS .... don kill yerself SS Camaro is still > gt, srt, vtec, wrx.......etc
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:31 AM   #5
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Going fast in a straight line was really the only thing that mattered in America in the muscle car age, and the only engines that made decent power were V8s.. Now that performance interests have become more varied and engines of any size can boast very good power, the SS badge has to adapt. I think the Cobalt SS is worthy of the name. I haven't heard too much about the HHR SS, so I'll reserve judgement on that. The Camaro SS? You bet. Ford is rumored to be developing a 300+ hp ecoboost powered Fusion with AWD. If GM followed suit on the Malibu, that would be SS worthy. The last Malibu SS was very not worthy. I'm on the fence with the Trailblazer SS. On one hand, I've driven it on a closed course and let me tell you, an SUV should not be able to do the things it did. Then again, it is still an SUV no matter how you cut it.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:40 AM   #6
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I have always liked SSs ( not all of them ) but I have always loved Z/28s... ALL of them, some more than others. esp;
1969
1981
1987
2002 are all great

hm the new RS may be faster than all of them, hmm... except the 02.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:15 AM   #7
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Going fast in a straight line was really the only thing that mattered in America in the muscle car age, and the only engines that made decent power were V8s.. Now that performance interests have become more varied and engines of any size can boast very good power, the SS badge has to adapt. I think the Cobalt SS is worthy of the name. I haven't heard too much about the HHR SS, so I'll reserve judgement on that. The Camaro SS? You bet. Ford is rumored to be developing a 300+ hp ecoboost powered Fusion with AWD. If GM followed suit on the Malibu, that would be SS worthy. The last Malibu SS was very not worthy. I'm on the fence with the Trailblazer SS. On one hand, I've driven it on a closed course and let me tell you, an SUV should not be able to do the things it did. Then again, it is still an SUV no matter how you cut it.
An SUV that dominates in its class! If there were a sport SUV class. I love that thing. All the function of a midsize truck, with an LS2! Now if they would just bring back the Silverado SS.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:08 AM   #8
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Seriously,

I do agree that the SS is well established within Chevy's line up.

But in this case there is the GT500 out there. I do hope GM will counter, whether it is a Z28 or not is up for grabs. It seems that in the case of the modern muscle car GM is still holding out on what may be the class leader. To bring back the Camaro and not step up to the challenge in all levels would be disappointing, at least, to me.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
A lot of discussion has taken place in this forum regarding the history of Chevrolet's legendary Super Sport trim. There is overwhelming support for the Camaro and certain other vehicles to have the SS moniker, but not everyone is behind Chevrolet's perceived expansion of its signature trim.

Why does it matter? For some of you, it means that the SS moniker has lost its meaning. As Camaro enthusiasts, we have a special calling with the Z28, and we tend to support that trim over any other. It's easy to forget about the importance of the SS to the Camaro because it becomes bland when more than one SS is brought onto the stage. At one time, the SS represented V8 muscle. For many, that meaning has faded with time, but I want to remind everyone why the SS is still important to the Chevrolet strategy, even if GM hasn't hired me to say so.

Super Sports are superior to the competition. That is the general idea. The biggest competition in performance in the American market used to be muscle cars. When powerful V8s dominated the market, only cars like the Chevelle would get such a label. With the invasion of imports featuring lower power ratings but higher efficiency, American V8s suddenly lost their competitive edge. They were so far below the classic V8 in power that many of these imports only competed with one another in the performance department. While they competed with different features, import brands would not represent equal counterparts on the track.

Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Toyota all introduced their respective super trims. They battled in the 4-cylinder department, and those legendary American brands didn't seem to matter anymore. Their overwhelming power didn't seem to matter in comparison, and that power dropped over time. Eventually, American brands developed 4-cylinder cars that sought to compete with the foreign brands. As a result, Chevrolet needed to reinvent itself for a new generation of competition. If they introduce new monikers, the classic ones grow old and outdated. By reinventing the SS as representing top-tier performance in every division, Chevrolet can leave a mark on every track, whether that track tends to host big V8s or low-displacement 4-bangers.

Chevrolet wants the SS to mean something, so those of you that think the SS moniker has gone too far need to take a close look at the numbers. When Chevrolet produces vehicles that bear the SS label, they dominate their class. Cars like the Cobalt SS and HHR SS, even if they seem average, prove their metal on the track and beat so many cars in and out of their class that it is hard to make exceptions. They all deserve the name, so why should Chevrolet take the Super Sport out of any of their cars?
The first car to wear the SS lable was the 61 Impala. There have been several models of Chevy to have the SS badge.. Impala, Nova, Chevelle. even back then you could get a 6 Cyl SS. yes there were some. the SS package was at one time a sporty dress up package that most of the time was combined with perfomance goodies... but not always the case. Todays SS's are usually the top performers for that model...and that class of vehicle.

so to use the SS on the top performing Camaro is appropriate....

the Z28 on the other hand was the best road race Camaro. that in my opinion is how it should be now. If they come out with a Z28 then it should harken back to the origional.. the 67. Small high reving engine with big HP, a 302V8 with 290 rated HP (actuall hp has been rumored to be closer to 325) best handleing cars of it's time...
Those wanting a 500 HP Camaro Z28 do not realize that that is not the Z28's heritage.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
The first car to wear the SS lable was the 61 Impala. There have been several models of Chevy to have the SS badge.. Impala, Nova, Chevelle. even back then you could get a 6 Cyl SS. yes there were some. the SS package was at one time a sporty dress up package that most of the time was combined with perfomance goodies... but not always the case. Todays SS's are usually the top performers for that model...and that class of vehicle.

so to use the SS on the top performing Camaro is appropriate....

the Z28 on the other hand was the best road race Camaro. that in my opinion is how it should be now. If they come out with a Z28 then it should harken back to the origional.. the 67. Small high reving engine with big HP, a 302V8 with 290 rated HP (actuall hp has been rumored to be closer to 325) best handleing cars of it's time...
Those wanting a 500 HP Camaro Z28 do not realize that that is not the Z28's heritage.

good post...

tho keep in mind, you dont need a big motor to make 500 hp any more.... esp with FI. from the looks of things, i might lease a v-6 RS and wait till 2012 for a possible 45th ann Z28.

keyword... possible....not guaranteed
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
The first car to wear the SS lable was the 61 Impala. There have been several models of Chevy to have the SS badge.. Impala, Nova, Chevelle. even back then you could get a 6 Cyl SS. yes there were some. the SS package was at one time a sporty dress up package that most of the time was combined with perfomance goodies... but not always the case. Todays SS's are usually the top performers for that model...and that class of vehicle.

so to use the SS on the top performing Camaro is appropriate....

the Z28 on the other hand was the best road race Camaro. that in my opinion is how it should be now. If they come out with a Z28 then it should harken back to the origional.. the 67. Small high reving engine with big HP, a 302V8 with 290 rated HP (actuall hp has been rumored to be closer to 325) best handleing cars of it's time...
Those wanting a 500 HP Camaro Z28 do not realize that that is not the Z28's heritage.
By those you mean all of us? That's a pretty wide reaching statement. Before you lump all of us in that group you may want to read posts from Radz, Box's SilverTurtle, Supermans, mine and many others. Because quite a few of us understand what the original Z28 was. Remember when we heard about the blown mule we didn't know the SS would be the entry V8. So when the SS was announced we guessed, if the blown motor survived, it would be the Z28... Not to much of a stretch is it?
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:31 AM   #12
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By those you mean all of us? That's a pretty wide reaching statement. Before you lump all of us in that group you may want to read posts from Radz, Box's SilverTurtle, Supermans, mine and many others. Because quite a few of us understand what the original Z28 was. Remember when we heard about the blown mule we didn't know the SS would be the entry V8. So when the SS was announced we guessed, if the blown motor survived, it would be the Z28... Not to much of a stretch is it?
NOT ALL want the Z28 to be what you want it to be, and if Chevy wants this to be a heritage car they need to stick with the design purpose of the first Z28...that is all I am saying and it is MY opinion. I know what you want, but who is to say they cannot bump up the SS to the Supercharged engine at the same time they bring out the Z28 Road King???
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:54 AM   #13
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NOT ALL want the Z28 to be what you want it to be, and if Chevy wants this to be a heritage car they need to stick with the design purpose of the first Z28...that is all I am saying and it is MY opinion. I know what you want, but who is to say they cannot bump up the SS to the Supercharged engine at the same time they bring out the Z28 Road King???
I understand this topic is scattered about in different places. So I'll leave it at this.

I want Chevy to bring back the Z28 more than I want the Z28 to be my Z28 I've said it many times, and as recently as this morning, I will buy whatever is the most powerful Camaro produced. I want a beast of a car. MY personal opinion is I want CTSV like power. But I don't want a Caddy. But, more importantly I want GM to do what is best for GM and the Camaro.

You know, in part, what I want. Because I've also said repeatedly that I would be very happy with the scenario you propose. "...who is to say they cannot bump up the SS to the Supercharged engine at the same time they bring out the Z28 Road King???"

My frustration is centered on one thing. Not knowing. That's it.

I've now lost count.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:11 AM   #14
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I think this is a great thread. Honestly, I've thought that SS was way overused, however, you bring up excellent points, IMHO. Like you've already said (if I'm not mistaken) is it comes down to getting people to identify SS with performance to bring more people in to buy these cars; and why not?! I had a bigger problem where there wasn't a big differentiation between SS and lower models, but, I think, GM is doing a great job of changing that and making these cars truly represent what SS used to mean. I think they have to be careful now because of the gas prices and enviornmental concerns, however, I think they can do well with this name.

I wonder if GM really had another performance in mind when they settled on the current SS car. What I mean is, did they think they would have either a more advanced engine available down the line or plan to use a variant on the LS9/LSA, and tag that with another name from the past? Was the SS to remain the top-dog car? I think, from what information I've obtained, that this is going to be a great all-around car; perhaps more a GT car (minus GT500 power) than a track-type car. Regardless of that thought, I believe that you bring up a great point and it's important that we try to keep that perspective regarding this badge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
Seriously,

I do agree that the SS is well established within Chevy's line up.

But in this case there is the GT500 out there. I do hope GM will counter, whether it is a Z28 or not is up for grabs. It seems that in the case of the modern muscle car GM is still holding out on what may be the class leader. To bring back the Camaro and not step up to the challenge in all levels would be disappointing, at least, to me.
True. I wonder more now that perhaps there isn't going to be a GT500 as we see it now. Maybe the next GT will be the BOSS motored engine and not make as much power. I know that I've heard, and read here, that another 6-liter is in the works for the SRT-cars, and I remember seeing that engine making like 500 horse, so perhaps this will be enough for GM to justify a SRT-fighter if the GT doesn't come back like it's current form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
By those you mean all of us? That's a pretty wide reaching statement. Before you lump all of us in that group you may want to read posts from Radz, Box's SilverTurtle, Supermans, mine and many others. Because quite a few of us understand what the original Z28 was. Remember when we heard about the blown mule we didn't know the SS would be the entry V8. So when the SS was announced we guessed, if the blown motor survived, it would be the Z28... Not to much of a stretch is it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
I understand this topic is scattered about in different places. So I'll leave it at this.

I want Chevy to bring back the Z28 more than I want the Z28 to be my Z28 I've said it many times, and as recently as this morning, I will buy whatever is the most powerful Camaro produced. I want a beast of a car. MY personal opinion is I want CTSV like power. But I don't want a Caddy. But, more importantly I want GM to do what is best for GM and the Camaro.

You know, in part, what I want. Because I've also said repeatedly that I would be very happy with the scenario you propose. "...who is to say they cannot bump up the SS to the Supercharged engine at the same time they bring out the Z28 Road King???"

My frustration is centered on one thing. Not knowing. That's it.

I've now lost count.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:35 AM   #15
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I'm glad you mostly understand what I was saying. I've made all of these points elsewhere, but consolidating them into one place allows this to be taken into a greater perspective.

The Z28 is a different issue. Z-platforms tend to rank higher than the SS. My comments, as usual, are not intended to bring down the Z28. In fact, I think the Z28 has a very special place in the Camaro lineup, but the SS gets forgotten among Z28 enthusiasts. If Chevrolet brings back a Z28, hopefully it returns to its small-engine, lightweight past. I'm sure GM is considering this, but we won't have any idea until GM announces how great the new Camaro sells.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:10 AM   #16
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maybe the Z28 will have a gen V motor. possibly smaller and more powerful than the SS.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:24 AM   #17
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:15 PM   #18
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I would think more than anything else, if there was to be a 500hp monster Camaro, it would be badged as a ZL1. Since we're going with the heritage idea, the true super Camaro will always be the ZL1. I would like to see a Z28 as well, but as previously stated, it would be better equipped as a nimble road racer. I predict new Camaro variants in the future, but all dependant on sales in the present.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:29 PM   #19
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I have always liked SSs ( not all of them ) but I have always loved Z/28s... ALL of them, some more than others. esp;
1969
1981
1987
2002 are all great

hm the new RS may be faster than all of them, hmm... except the 02.
That's crazy isn't it.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:21 PM   #20
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I think the SS is going to be best bang for the buck. (for V8's)

Sure they could give it more but then the cost goes up and your starting to get into the Corvette's target market. We don't need another Corvette. Camaro needs to be America's sport car again. Cheap and fun.

The SS looks fantastic. The engines are solid. They will last forever if TLC is applied. It's all about how you take care of it and enjoy it.

GM no longer has a warchest to make alternate builds if they can't recoup the cost and make a reasonable profit. They also can't control what happens to Gas prices in the next 5-6 years. Which is gonna be typical loan term.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:00 PM   #21
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I don't worry too much about it.

The Z/28 was THE Z/28 for a long time. you know except for the 2 years GM killed it.

then all of the sudden BAM put some ricey parts on a Cavalier and you gotta' Z24. Lipstick on the dog that is a Beretta and ya' gotta' Z26. Doll up a Lumina with a DOHC engine that takes 3 hours to change the alternator on and you have the Z34.

Z34? How in the hell is a Lumina > Camaro?
But even after all those cars are gone and mostly forgotten the spirit of the Z/28 lives on.

I suspect the SuperSport name will too no matter what they put it on.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:32 AM   #22
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I don't worry too much about it.

The Z/28 was THE Z/28 for a long time. you know except for the 2 years GM killed it.

then all of the sudden BAM put some ricey parts on a Cavalier and you gotta' Z24. Lipstick on the dog that is a Beretta and ya' gotta' Z26. Doll up a Lumina with a DOHC engine that takes 3 hours to change the alternator on and you have the Z34.

Z34? How in the hell is a Lumina > Camaro?
But even after all those cars are gone and mostly forgotten the spirit of the Z/28 lives on.


I suspect the SuperSport name will too no matter what they put it on.
A lot of people do the Z/34 > Z/24, It was not intended to be a guage of performance... otherwise the Z/85 truck would be > than the Z/71 and both would be better than the Z/29 ( could not even pretend to put Z/28 there )

the Z code, typically refers to a suspension/ performance package, but they are not intended to be ranked Z/71>z66>Z51>Z34>Z26 etc

Anyone remember what the Z51 is/was?
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06 GMC Z71 - - - sold...
getting ready for my Camaro
02 Z28 - - - sold :( miss it!
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:47 AM   #23
headpunter
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corvtte....
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:21 PM   #24
The_Blur
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I am reviving this thread to continue the discussion from this thread.

Discuss again.
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:55 PM   #25
CamaroSpike23
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corvtte....

epic fail....



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I am reviving this thread to continue the discussion from this thread.

Discuss again.
do we have to? ok....fine
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
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But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
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