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Old 02-06-2010, 09:43 AM   #1
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Out of Commision Again

As some of you might know, I had an issue at 200 or so miles where my starter attempted to start the car while I was driving and caused the starter to fail and be replaced. Fast forward to yesterday and about 2900 miles, and the same thing happens again as I am on my way to work. Unlike the last time, when I turned the car off, the starter shut down, this time the starter kept trying to turn over for about 5 minutes after i removed the key from the igintion and finally stopped once the car went to battery saver mode. So for now the car is back at O'Neils with a call to GM being made to see what is going on.
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:51 AM   #2
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What did they fix last time to address this? Just the starter or ignition switch or both or more? That musta been gnarly...
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:19 AM   #3
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Last time they replaced the starter and relocated some wires that appeared to be in contact with engine mounts, etc. I don't think they did anything with the ignition switch but i would have to check the previous doucuments to be sure. Gnarly is probably a good way to describe it. The guy working on my car doesn't work on the weekends so no updates until then. At least I got an Impala as a rental this time instead of the HHR.
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:25 PM   #4
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Ya know, if the starter engaged with the engine running, there may have been damage to the flywheel. I would insist to see it. Have them pull the starter or inspection cover and look for damage to the leading edge of the flywheel teeth. You can't miss it when it happens...

Please do post back with what they find or do to resolve...
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Old 02-07-2010, 03:30 PM   #5
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Hi Chris, Man what bad luck! Mine is still parked in storage waiting for the sun to shine
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre2216 View Post
As some of you might know, I had an issue at 200 or so miles where my starter attempted to start the car while I was driving and caused the starter to fail and be replaced. Fast forward to yesterday and about 2900 miles, and the same thing happens again as I am on my way to work. Unlike the last time, when I turned the car off, the starter shut down, this time the starter kept trying to turn over for about 5 minutes after i removed the key from the igintion and finally stopped once the car went to battery saver mode. So for now the car is back at O'Neils with a call to GM being made to see what is going on.

This sounds like something electronic with the auto start feature, ours cars automatically start the car even if you just turn to start and let the key go for 1 second. Changing the starter is like placing a bucket on the floor when the roof is leaking.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:30 PM   #7
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Well just got off the phone with the service guys at O'neils. The did a look underneath the car to see if any wires from the old recall items were a problem and all looked good. My car already has the gm tape solution to this recall installed on it. They did order a new starter, since the old one is shot now and it will be here tomorrow. At that point they will install it and try and trace the electrical/ignition system. They also called the camaro division at gm to see if an engineer can either come out to look at the car or work along side them via phone calls to address the problem. Looks like it may be there a while this time.
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:16 PM   #8
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Well, that is both good and bad. Good that you will hopefully get to the bottom of it. Bad that you will be without the car.... Hope it all works out and quickly...
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:53 PM   #9
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I am glad that GM is getting involved so that it will get fixed correctly. I got a rental car, on the dealership, so atleast I have something to beat on in the salt and snow around here instead of my car on days I have no choice but to drive.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:05 AM   #10
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Well looks like I am going to have the rental car for the rest of the week, weekend and part of next week. GM is sending a field engineer out to O'Neils on Monday of next week to look/work on this issue with them.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Well looks like I am going to have the rental car for the rest of the week, weekend and part of next week. GM is sending a field engineer out to O'Neils on Monday of next week to look/work on this issue with them.
Rental? You mean loaner right? This should be on their dime not yours!!
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:26 PM   #12
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I think it is technically a rental because it is from enterprise and they are charing it to the dealer. Either way, I'm not paying for it.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:03 PM   #13
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Keep us posted as to the successful repair.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:28 PM   #14
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I certainly will. The GM guy will be there tomorrow to start working on it, so hopefully I will have some more information at the end of the day.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:20 AM   #15
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Bob here with a 2LT manual, drove it 4300 miles so far out to Arizona from NY. Not a problem with anything on the car so far. Perhaps the V6 3.6 liter Caddy CTS engine is problem free I hope. Anyway good luck with the starter and stay on top of it. The manual tranny will not auto start just by turning the ignition key on.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:53 PM   #16
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Well GM sent out a field engineer today. They took apart and inspected all of the wiring harnesses and found them all to be in working conditions with no issues. The engineer and the dealer will be back to work tomorrow trying to diagnose the problem.
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Old 02-17-2010, 01:54 PM   #17
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Sounds like your in it for the long haul.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:24 PM   #18
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The service manager from my dealer is meeting with the gm regional rep as we speak. He will be back in the shop tomorrow to give me an update as to what the next step will be.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:09 PM   #19
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Wow they still havent figured it out? I sure hope they find it and quick.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:44 PM   #20
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Nope they still have not found it. I talked to the guy working on my car today since the service manager wasnt there and he said him and the gm guy had the majority of the wiring harnesses opened up and tested, and all tested out fine. We'll see what GM has to say tomorrow.
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Old 02-18-2010, 08:29 PM   #21
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Starter issue sounds like customer abuse. I think they should void the warranty! LOL.

Just kidding, hope they fix her soon.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:13 AM   #22
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Probably some stray low frequency pulses from that exhaust roar....


My first guess would be ECM.

Second guess would be a short to power in the starter relay circuit.

How it works, BCM sends a signal to the ECM that the driver has turned the ignition switch. ECM then checks that the car is in park or nuetral and that it is already not running. Then it commands/sends a 12V signal to the starter relay and vroom.

So it's not the BCM or ignition switch or anything in that wiring... the ECM would prevent a wrong time engagement if it received it's go signal at the wrong time.

Has to be either the ECM sending the 12V signal in error. Or a short to 12V power in the starter relay control circuit (rare, most shorts are to ground or open). Since it timed out, another clue to me that it is an ECM issue. One of the solid state drivers in there fubar'd up.

I'll put nickle on it's the ECM.
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:39 AM   #23
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I sure hope they find it soon and fix it. You were lucky with the starter running that long that it didnt start a fire. The cables get hot from running the starter to long.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:50 PM   #24
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Make them give you another SS while they play with yours, or research the CT lemon law rules. I think its 3 times on the same issue and you get another car.
They should be at least be swapping some parts by now (PCM).
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:23 PM   #25
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Thanks for the responses guys. I think they are getting down to the problem. They had the head regional engineer out to look at it. Just as Russell said, the engineer thinks it is one of two problems, the ECM or a problem with the underhood fuse box. He said his money is on the underhood fuse box, becuase, according to him, there are too many parameters that have to be met for the ecm to tell the starter to fire. They checked all the wiring between the starter and the computer and from the starter to anywhere else and it all checked out. No cuts or damage. He is awaiting a call back from the head of the quality control, but if he doesnt hear back by monday morning, they will be putting in a new underhood fuse box and a new computer.

I did check the CT lemon laws the other day to see if that was an option. It said 30 days in the shop for the same issue. The law technically says a reasonable amount of attempts, which apparently is 4. So the first time the car was only in there for 4 days. This time, Monday will make 17 days, so getting close to that. The GM regional guy told me he wants to make sure the root of the problem is found so that it doesn't happen to anyone else and that he has been talking with as many people as possible, and that is why it is taking so long. The problem is that this doesnt happen all the time, so they can not see the problem in action to isolate the problem.
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