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Old 02-11-2007, 12:30 PM   #1
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Updating a car

Hi has anyone totally Revamped a car, I mean everything powertrain-wise?

When I saw that new Chevrolet Volt, it got me thinking; I WANT the Camaro, but what if gasoline actually does go away? I wonder if I could refit the Camaro o be an electric car? I know that no one has done this specific application, but I was wondering how hard it is to drop a new engine into a car, having never done this myself.

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:35 PM   #2
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That an interesting project, Dragoneye.

I thought the Chevrolet Volt was the most significant concept car at the NAIAS. I think it's a very important car for GM's future success. I even liked the styling quite a lot. It's not a good looking as the Camaro, but it's still pretty nice.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:44 PM   #3
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Dragoneye,

On a similar note about changing an entire drive train, one of our Club members is swaping an LS1 and a 6-speed into a 1985 IROC-Z. It's an interesting swap, and he's doing a fantastic job. Here's a link to the project. There are a lot of posts, but take the time to brouse through the whole thread, I think you'll be very impressed.

http://www.mifbody.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6202
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Old 02-11-2007, 07:53 PM   #4
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My guess is that it can be done..... but at what cost would be the question. I mean you can do anything with enough money. My guess is that it would be a very very difficult project as the mechanics are different in just about every part of the car, not just the motor itself.

I can guarantee it would not be just a simple as swapping an LT1 for an LS2.
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:42 AM   #5
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Dragoneye,

On a similar note about changing an entire drive train, one of our Club members is swaping an LS1 and a 6-speed into a 1985 IROC-Z. It's an interesting swap, and he's doing a fantastic job. Here's a link to the project. There are a lot of posts, but take the time to brouse through the whole thread, I think you'll be very impressed.

http://www.mifbody.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6202
James has done an Awesome job with the swap. James.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:16 PM   #6
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Sure it can be done. I've seen some crazy stuff. Remember that changing out an engine and drivetrain consists of more than just those two basic parts. I think you know what I mean. Stepping up the engine, etc, also means changing out many more little parts,...ratiator, etc. So, if you're going to do the swap, be prepared to do all the little things that are unexpected.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:22 PM   #7
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Thanks for the input guys,
I think I can do it, it's just...I'm looking way into the future-I want to keep this car for many many many years to come, and especially now thats going to mean keeping up with the times, and so I was toying with the Idea of completely scraping the internal combustion powerhouse, for an electric one when the time comes. I love the way this Camaro looks, thats why.

Personally I hope the ethanol Idea picks up because I don't know if I could live happily without an exhaust note coming out of my Camaro.......
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:35 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input guys,
I think I can do it, it's just...I'm looking way into the future-I want to keep this car for many many many years to come, and especially now thats going to mean keeping up with the times, and so I was toying with the Idea of completely scraping the internal combustion powerhouse, for an electric one when the time comes. I love the way this Camaro looks, thats why.

Personally I hope the ethanol Idea picks up because I don't know if I could live happily without an exhaust note coming out of my Camaro.......
I really think ethanol and/or bio-diesel are the two most feasible options right now. I don't think electric will become the primary technology just becasue of its cost/performance ratio. I would say that we will be ok for the forseeable future.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:20 PM   #9
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Thanks for the input guys,
I think I can do it, it's just...I'm looking way into the future-I want to keep this car for many many many years to come, and especially now thats going to mean keeping up with the times, and so I was toying with the Idea of completely scraping the internal combustion powerhouse, for an electric one when the time comes. I love the way this Camaro looks, thats why.

Personally I hope the ethanol Idea picks up because I don't know if I could live happily without an exhaust note coming out of my Camaro.......
Also, most everything I have read has stated that fossil fuels are not going to run out in our lifetime. You'll have plenty of time with your new baby... Just remember, if you have the time and money anything can be accomplished.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:03 PM   #10
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Also, most everything I have read has stated that fossil fuels are not going to run out in our lifetime. You'll have plenty of time with your new baby... Just remember, if you have the time and money anything can be accomplished.
If consumption continues at the same rate or with an annual increase of some %? I thought that I had heard that if consumption continues at the average of a 3% increase each year then we will run out in 80 years assuming no new deposits are found.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:29 PM   #11
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If consumption continues at the same rate or with an annual increase of some %? I thought that I had heard that if consumption continues at the average of a 3% increase each year then we will run out in 80 years assuming no new deposits are found.
I guess it all depends on who your listening to...

I'll be 111 in 80 years...:Oldsmileywithwalker:
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:42 PM   #12
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Don't forget, Chevron just did some deep ocean oil drilling in the gulf...first time it's ever been accomplished. If they can secure the drilling method to be successful, we will find ourselves w/ many more years of oil.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:30 AM   #13
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Dragoneye, first, I don't think you have to worry about the end of fossil fuels. At least in our lifetime.

But. Speaking hypothetically, if we did, and you wanted to "revamp" your Camaro, IMO, I think it'd be way too much effort and cost way too much money to be practical.

Besides the enormous cost, there are many other issues, ie; cars built as "electric cars" are engineered that way from the start. The new Camaro for example, weighs way too much to be "revamped" to an electric car. Unless the factory chooses to build an electric Camaro, IMO, the cost for an individual to "revamp" would be too much.

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Old 02-13-2007, 08:36 AM   #14
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Ethanol is not a good solution.

it almost, if not does, take more energy to produce it than it itself produces. I read an article a while back, forget what magazine, where the main areas of supposed improvement (environment, costs, oil dependence, etc) were mathematically analyzed, and there was less than a 2% increase in all categories with ethanol being used as it is.
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:52 AM   #15
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When the time comes i think im gonna buy some land in the rockys and figure out how to make some quality shine to run through my camaro.
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:18 PM   #16
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Anything can be done...it's just a matter of how much you're willing to spend.
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:04 PM   #17
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All about the money, huh guys? just kidding.
Call me a tree-hugger, but if cars go electric like the volt (which I think they will if GM is putting all their chips in) I'm all for it. I would like not to screw Mother Nature over any more than we already have . Which is why I'm considering this mother-of-all modifications. I'm not willing to sacrifice my car for her .
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:52 AM   #18
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Speaking of screwing over mother nature, anyone here see the movie The Day After Tomorrow? All that they said made too much sense and made it seem like it could happen in real life. My prediction...it's gonna happen sometime in the near future...most likely not our lifetimes, but sometime here soon w/ the way we are going.
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:45 AM   #19
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I did see that movie
And isn't that a scary thought:eek: ? That the whole world just ices over within 3 days...

I actually seriously considered the Volt as an option for me in the future. It looks pretty nice too . Then I looked at the picture of the Camaro on my desktop...I can't do it. I need my Camaro.
So that got me toying with the idea of re-vamping the car.

I really don't think it's that "out there" of an idea. Don't get me wrong it will be a $hi!- load of work. But I'd be willing to do it .
And I'm more than confident that they will have high-powered motors that will be = 300+ hp by the time any of my plans go into effect. So the concern of the weight of the car vs. motor power really doesn't bother me. I want to put a Volt-like powertrain into it. I'd place the batteries up in the drive shaft canal and some under the hood with the generator. I'd get the most powerful electric motors I could get my hands on and mount them to the wheels. Obviously I'll have to research the mechanics of an electric vehicle a little bit more if/when I do do this, but hey, why not. It will give me something to do in my retirement.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:01 AM   #20
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Speaking of screwing over mother nature, anyone here see the movie The Day After Tomorrow? All that they said made too much sense and made it seem like it could happen in real life. My prediction...it's gonna happen sometime in the near future...most likely not our lifetimes, but sometime here soon w/ the way we are going.
The claims made in that movie are complete BS. Of course running out of our already depleated natural resources is a real problem, the effects of global warming are taken to a theatric extreme in that movie. The environmental research on global warming is very segmented and doesn't even demonstrate any real evidence of "global warming" as we have all come to know it. There have been an increase in greenhouse gases over the course of the last 100 year, but there is no evidence that it has had any real impact on weather or climate.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:18 AM   #21
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No evidence!?!?
Have you been paying attention to the weather over the globe the past few years?
More Huricanes and more violent than ever before in Southern US
I can tell you from experience that the Snow up here in NY is some of the worst I've ever seen!
Trust me there is evidence, maybe not significant evidence, but it's only a matter of time...
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:35 PM   #22
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No evidence!?!?
Have you been paying attention to the weather over the globe the past few years?
More Huricanes and more violent than ever before in Southern US
I can tell you from experience that the Snow up here in NY is some of the worst I've ever seen!
Trust me there is evidence, maybe not significant evidence, but it's only a matter of time...
Yes, I said evidence. What you just listed was your own observations. You can hardly call your own observations in global climate over the last few years a trend or evidence.

As for your argument regarding an increase in tropical cyclones (Huricanes), the National Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory has actually documented a decreased number of tropical cyclones over the last 40 years worldwide. Again, you can not make a claim about a global trend based on local data, especially when that data is based on one's own personal observations.

Moreover, the instrumentation used to identify and quantify tropical storms has greatly improved over the last 15-20 years which makes it even more difficult to make any substantitive claims regarding huricanes because the equipment used prior to this was not very accurate leading to simplistic and inaccurate models.

Even if you completely disregard the evidence i just presented, there would have to be some theory to support such a claim. The general theory used by the supporters of global warming usually follows this logic: global warming leads to increased ocean surface temperatures, which leads to a greater uptake of moisture and destructive hurricanes.

However, if you look at the temperature data since 1890 you will see only a rise in temperature of about .8 degrees celcius over that period. this is hardly enough to significantly affect the moisture levels int he tropics.
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:31 PM   #23
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So Casull, do you think it could happen or not?

Do you think our way of living is having an effect on our environment (climate)?

"In the past million years, the Earth experienced a major ice age about every 100,000 years. Scientists have several theories to explain this glacial cycle, but new research suggests the primary driving force is all in how the planet leans....

The last major glacial thaw was 10,000 years ago, which means that the Earth is scheduled to head into another ice age. Whether human influences could reverse this, Huybers was hesitant to speculate. Other researchers have found evidence that the process of climate warming can set up conditions that create a global chill.

"What we have here is a great laboratory for seeing how climate changes naturally," he said. "But this is a 100,000-year cycle, whereas global warming is happening a thousand times faster"
http://www.livescience.com/forcesofn...arth_tilt.html
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:57 PM   #24
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So Casull, do you think it could happen or not?

Do you think our way of living is having an effect on our environment (climate)?

"In the past million years, the Earth experienced a major ice age about every 100,000 years. Scientists have several theories to explain this glacial cycle, but new research suggests the primary driving force is all in how the planet leans....

The last major glacial thaw was 10,000 years ago, which means that the Earth is scheduled to head into another ice age. Whether human influences could reverse this, Huybers was hesitant to speculate. Other researchers have found evidence that the process of climate warming can set up conditions that create a global chill.

"What we have here is a great laboratory for seeing how climate changes naturally," he said. "But this is a 100,000-year cycle, whereas global warming is happening a thousand times faster"
http://www.livescience.com/forcesofn...arth_tilt.html
Well, there is no doubt that our burning of fossil fuels are dramatically adding to the CO2 levels in our atmosphere. The CO2 levels have in fact increased some 28% just in the last 50 years. However, this still a very very small amount of the total atmosphere. Nitrogen makes up 78% of our atmosphere, Oxygen makes up about 21%, and CO2 and some others about 1%. Therefore is would have to take a very significant amout of CO2 to drastically alter our atmosphere.

There are a number of theories out there that try to explain any temperature variation however. Some researchers believe that it is due tot he increase in volcanic activity worldwide, while others think that the solar cycles can account for the majority of the variation. It has also been demonstrated that the temperatures in urban areas have increased significantly more than rural areas, leading many people to believe that temperature variation is more of a local phenomenon rather than a global phenomenon. In fact if you account for the variation in temperature by urban cities, the average temperature has actually decreased over the past 100 years.

The fact is that no one knows for sure the effect humans are having on our climate, if any. Likewise, the research on the effect of increased CO2 emmissions on our climate is even more fragmented demonstrating that there is not one clear cut trend.

Going back to your quote about global warming leading to a global chill, I believe that is a reference to the notion that global warming would lead to the recession of glaciers which would then uncover a mass of pockets of methane gas in the earth's surface. If enough Methane gas was released into the atmosphere, then it could in theory create a global chill.

However, this theory clearly relies on the assumption that global warming is, in itself, melting the glaciers, and this is just not the case. In fact some glaciers have been receeding now for thousands of years, way before greenhouse gases. Also, it has been reported that a number of glaciers are actually growing, particularly those in Greenland, which further throws a kink into any assumption that greenhouse gases are melting our glaciers.

EDIT: I know I did not answer your question directly as to whether I think it could happen. In theory, yes... However, it is just too difficult to determine any effect human interaction is having on the climate.
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:37 PM   #25
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I'm not going to say anything of value in this post;
only that I am fighting very hard not to argue with anyone...:slice:
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