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Old 09-02-2008, 10:41 AM   #1
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Shelby GT500 Hurst Challenger Camaro ?????

Times are very close to what they were in the 60's today only better. The new muscle cars have the best of everything as far as breaking, powertrains, handling and of course looks. It scares me that Ford has the Shelby that has been hugly sucessful. Dodge has the Challenger SRT that has been kicking butt since it came out, and now the special edition Challenger Hurst supercharged edition comming out at SEMA 2008. GM/Chevrolet has not even delivered one new Camaro yet. The Z28 program has been "Canceled" acording to Camaro brand manager. Once again we are behind the eight ball! I have had two or three posts removed my the moderator due to my posts regarding the Z28 being dead. I have owned over thirty Camaro's in my life and would like nothing more than to see a new Camaro named Z/28 or 1LE or ZL1 as long as the power is there to back it up! For the fist time in my life I may have to switch sides and buy a Z06 Corvette because GM has dropped the ball on the Camaro! I have never been a huge Corvette fan but it looks like I need a Corvette to play with the big boys. They pony wars were Mustang VS Camaro, Challenger, Firebird RIP. "Not Corvette". Great job Chevrolet on having a car that will compete with the big dogs!
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:45 AM   #2
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the srt challanger is going to be direct competitor with the ss camaro

and the ss is much cheaper. we need to make a profit (gm as a whole) before we can spend more money on a faster one.

doing it aftermarket makes people not expect it when you pull up on side of them.
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:46 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by IROCZJEFF View Post
Times are very close to what they were in the 60's today only better. The new muscle cars have the best of everything as far as breaking, powertrains, handling and of course looks. It scares me that Ford has the Shelby that has been hugly sucessful. Dodge has the Challenger SRT that has been kicking butt since it came out, and now the special edition Challenger Hurst supercharged edition comming out at SEMA 2008. GM/Chevrolet has not even delivered one new Camaro yet. The Z28 program has been "Canceled" acording to Camaro brand manager. Once again we are behind the eight ball! I have had two or three posts removed my the moderator due to my posts regarding the Z28 being dead. I have owned over thirty Camaro's in my life and would like nothing more than to see a new Camaro named Z/28 or 1LE or ZL1 as long as the power is there to back it up! For the fist time in my life I may have to switch sides and buy a Z06 Corvette because GM has dropped the ball on the Camaro! I have never been a huge Corvette fan but it looks like I need a Corvette to play with the big boys. They pony wars were Mustang VS Camaro, Challenger, Firebird RIP. "Not Corvette". Great job Chevrolet on having a car that will compete with the big dogs!
She ain't dead yet Maybe in lymbo for the time being, but not dead. 'Father has spoken on this and at this point, it's the best information we have. Don't get too worried until he says otherwise There are a lot of people who feel like you do, and I think GM knows this, so I think we still have a chance.
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:53 AM   #4
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Worry not my friend.


The SRT8 Chally is SLOWER than the SS.

The Shelby is marked up to high hell and overweight. The least you can get a GT500 nowadays is 40k+. so take the SS (which is something like .1-.2 slower anyways) and put that $$ difference into upgrades, and the SS is going to be the best car in any comparison.

Thats the greatest thing about the SS. STOCK its fast enough to hang with anyone, but with all the money you saved buying the car, you'll easily rip any shelby or STR8 apart, for the same price as it would have taken to buy one of those in the first place.

The Camaro is going to handle the best, ride the best, and be the fastest most agile out of the group. imagine what it will do, when you start feeding her steriods.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:01 AM   #5
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Worry not my friend.


The SRT8 Chally is SLOWER than the SS.

The Shelby is marked up to high hell and overweight. The least you can get a GT500 nowadays is 40k+. so take the SS (which is something like .1-.2 slower anyways) and put that $$ difference into upgrades, and the SS is going to be the best car in any comparison.

Thats the greatest thing about the SS. STOCK its fast enough to hang with anyone, but with all the money you saved buying the car, you'll easily rip any shelby or STR8 apart, for the same price as it would have taken to buy one of those in the first place.

The Camaro is going to handle the best, ride the best, and be the fastest most agile out of the group. imagine what it will do, when you start feeding her steriods.
Great points! Heck, if you make those changes, I'm sure that mod'd SS will keep up with future Chally' and 'Stang updated models. I'm sure the Mopar guys aren't going to take the SS lightly for very long...
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:08 AM   #6
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Challenger VS Mustang VS Camaro

I keep going back in my memory bank to 1993 when the camaro was 275 HP then in 1994 the car 285 HP. In 1996 the SS came out with 305 HP. I wish GM would grab the bull by the horns and come out with the big motor before all the tree hugger's step in and Obama kills the HP wars! Before we know it Obama will have us all driving Toyota's. These cars are not going to last with 500 plus HP! They didn't in the 60's and they will not last now! My point is that what was once the big three is all present and ready to play ball in it's final round with the exception of one. It's forth quarter and long and the Camaro is down by a field goal. Lets get it together GM! IROCZJEFF
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:09 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Congoman775 View Post
Worry not my friend.


The SRT8 Chally is SLOWER than the SS.

The Shelby is marked up to high hell and overweight. The least you can get a GT500 nowadays is 40k+. so take the SS (which is something like .1-.2 slower anyways) and put that $$ difference into upgrades, and the SS is going to be the best car in any comparison.

Thats the greatest thing about the SS. STOCK its fast enough to hang with anyone, but with all the money you saved buying the car, you'll easily rip any shelby or STR8 apart, for the same price as it would have taken to buy one of those in the first place.

The Camaro is going to handle the best, ride the best, and be the fastest most agile out of the group. imagine what it will do, when you start feeding her steriods.
Yes the ss is faster than the srt 8...but it is going to have loads of trouble with the gt500 which by the way is at msrp now. And with a quick pulley swap will get alot of hp increased so The money saved which will probably be only 3-4k between a fully loaded ss and gt500 isnt going to suffice. 10k maybe but I doubt it.That is if it is 30k which I doubt due to the g8 pricing.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:11 AM   #8
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Great points! Heck, if you make those changes, I'm sure that mod'd SS will keep up with future Chally' and 'Stang updated models. I'm sure the Mopar guys aren't going to take the SS lightly for very long...
I dont take the SS lightly at all. Hopefully any doubts that chrysler had of coming out with the 6.4 is gone and we will see it in 2010.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:12 AM   #9
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Aftermarket Parts Camaro

Aftermarket parts are great, but I would like to have something out of the box with power. Gm used SLP in the 90's and 00's to make power where power was needed. I would be ok with a Z/28 edition SLP car or a K-tech, Mallett Camaro? This tread has been great! You guy and or girls have great comments. IROCZJEFF
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:15 AM   #10
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Yes the ss is faster than the srt 8...but it is going to have loads of trouble with the gt500 which by the way is at msrp now. And with a quick pulley swap will get alot of hp increased so The money saved which will probably be only 3-4k between a fully loaded ss and gt500 isnt going to suffice. 10k maybe but I doubt it.That is if it is 30k which I doubt due to the g8 pricing.
A. they sell for msrp? where do you live? Mexico?

B. Quick pulley swap.... did you hear what happens to an LS3 with a Cam and tune?

C. THE MSRP OF A SHELBY GT500 IS $42,825. So lets say in a perfect (non-existant) world, where you could actually buy a shelby for MSRP (ha) you'd save... +-12,000.

twelve thousand? yea thats a real toss up for me...
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:15 AM   #11
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Does anybody know how rediculously fast a GT500 priced camaro would be...I bet it's pretty damn fast... Listen to congoman, he is thinkin the right way.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:15 AM   #12
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Camaro is the official car of the Sema show... No worries about seeing cool Camaros there.
http://www.sema.org/Main/ArticleDeta...ontentID=59804

The Challenger is a re-bodied Charager, its an old platform. The Camaro is all new from the ground up. Thats why it 'taking longer' to get out, GM isn't just procrastinating.

Even the early reviews of the V6 Camaro comment how its better than the Challenger and the Mustang in almost every way.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:21 AM   #13
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Aftermarket parts on a LS3

I was talking with one of the Mallett brothers the other day from www.mallettcars.com and they said that they have had to replace a number of LS3 motors they installed in there Solstice V8 cars. They said that the LS3 motors are terrible. Mallett's went back to LS2 power plants in there Mallett powered Solstices. They are planning on doing the new Camaro and possible LS7 converstions!!! That would be awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:32 AM   #14
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Camaro is the official car of the Sema show... No worries about seeing cool Camaros there.
http://www.sema.org/Main/ArticleDeta...ontentID=59804

The Challenger is a re-bodied Charager, its an old platform. The Camaro is all new from the ground up. Thats why it 'taking longer' to get out, GM isn't just procrastinating.

Even the early reviews of the V6 Camaro comment how its better than the Challenger and the Mustang in almost every way.
Ummm the old challengers were re bodied chargers too, what is your point.

Old platform? If you think a 3-4 ear old platform is old, then what is the zeta platform ? OLD.

the v6 is better than the challenger and v6 explorer mustang but I really could care less about the v6 all of the chrysler engines out now are re-used engines wait till 2010. chrysler knows what they are doing.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:39 AM   #15
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A. they sell for msrp? where do you live? Mexico?

B. Quick pulley swap.... did you hear what happens to an LS3 with a Cam and tune?

C. THE MSRP OF A SHELBY GT500 IS $42,825. So lets say in a perfect (non-existant) world, where you could actually buy a shelby for MSRP (ha) you'd save... +-12,000.

twelve thousand? yea thats a real toss up for me...
I live in miami of all places and if after 3 years the price isnt at msrp then you must live on an island.

I thought the msrp was 39k guess it went up. Either way in your dream world the camaro will be 30k. The g8 gt with only 60 more hp is 29k fully loaded so take off like 2 for the 300 hp camaro and the price is 27 fully loaded. GM has never cared about the mustang and has sold its cars pricey IMO and the g8 gxp will be just under 40k so cmon I lvoe the camaro but 30k for an ls3? I dont think so. So the price difference wont be much. I dont like ford but their prices have always been the cheapest. Maybe cuz of the quality yu get>?
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:49 AM   #16
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I live in miami of all places and if after 3 years the price isnt at msrp then you must live on an island.

I thought the msrp was 39k guess it went up. Either way in your dream world the camaro will be 30k. The g8 gt with only 60 more hp is 29k fully loaded so take off like 2 for the 300 hp camaro and the price is 27 fully loaded. GM has never cared about the mustang and has sold its cars pricey IMO and the g8 gxp will be just under 40k so cmon I lvoe the camaro but 30k for an ls3? I dont think so. So the price difference wont be much. I dont like ford but their prices have always been the cheapest. Maybe cuz of the quality yu get>?
Ford isnt much of a benchmark for anyone.

BUT they sell. why? because they are cheap.

the Camaro is here to stay. MSRP 29,995 fully loaded 34k.

you heard it here.

And i live in naples (across the alley), and i visit the local ford dealership all the time. just because msrp is 42k doesnt mean the dealers dont order them with more add ons, to increase the msrp to 44-47k.

and even still... your talking about a 10-15 thousand dollar difference.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:51 AM   #17
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Buy new SS Camaro, add following modifications: cam, LTs, CAI and DRs. Then tune. Say bye-bye to GT500 and supercharged Challenger.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:53 AM   #18
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I was talking with one of the Mallett brothers the other day from www.mallettcars.com and they said that they have had to replace a number of LS3 motors they installed in there Solstice V8 cars. They said that the LS3 motors are terrible. Mallett's went back to LS2 power plants in there Mallett powered Solstices. They are planning on doing the new Camaro and possible LS7 converstions!!! That would be awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Must have been bad luck. The LS3 is a great motor. Better than the LS2 in every way.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:53 AM   #19
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Buy new SS Camaro, add following modifications: cam, LTs, CAI and DRs. Then tune. Say bye-bye to GT500 and Challenger.
HOTCIVIC is right. Don't worry about the competition. The LS-series motor is notoriously responsive to modification. We will punish the so-called competition.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:58 AM   #20
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Aftermarket Parts

Like I said before aftermarket parts are great, but I would like a car to compete out of the box. On my 2004 GTO I had Kook's long tube headers, Corsa exhaust, Random Tech high flow cats, intake, tune etc... The check engine light was always on due to the high flow cats not getting hot enough. I didn't want to install sims incase I had a problem. I want something I can jump in and drive with a factory warranty like Ford has with the Shelby. You can do all the mods in the world but you will always be screwing with something. Just my two cents. IROCZJEFF







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Buy new SS Camaro, add following modifications: cam, LTs, CAI and DRs. Then tune. Say bye-bye to GT500 and Challenger.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:09 PM   #21
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[QUOTE=HOTCIVIC;123343]Buy new SS Camaro, add following modifications: cam, LTs, CAI and DRs. Then tune. Say bye-bye to GT500 and supercharged Challenger.
you are dreaming of a white christmas as the song says.

that also goes for congos 34k fully loaded number. why cant anyone argue the gxp comment I made. Cuz it is probably true.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:10 PM   #22
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Ford isnt much of a benchmark for anyone.

BUT they sell. why? because they are cheap.

the Camaro is here to stay. MSRP 29,995 fully loaded 34k.

you heard it here.

And i live in naples (across the alley), and i visit the local ford dealership all the time. just because msrp is 42k doesnt mean the dealers dont order them with more add ons, to increase the msrp to 44-47k.

and even still... your talking about a 10-15 thousand dollar difference.
BTW we should have a meet when we get our cars
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:23 PM   #23
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Ummm the old challengers were re bodied chargers too, what is your point.

Old platform? If you think a 3-4 ear old platform is old, then what is the zeta platform ? OLD.

the v6 is better than the challenger and v6 explorer mustang but I really could care less about the v6 all of the chrysler engines out now are re-used engines wait till 2010. chrysler knows what they are doing.
Hey maybe you didn't know it, but Dodge got the chassis for the Charger and 300C from Mercedes. It's from the Mercedes E class. I think it was the outgoing model when they first made a Charger. The Zeta was made by GM Holden for GM and it's first use was in 2006. You're just upset because we're bashing your beloved Challenger which you don't even own. That means it's not too late to change your mind about your pony of choice. Lighter, faster, less expensive.

And I have an LS2 and can tell you it's a great motor. Unless there's some bizarre defect for the LS3, you can bet the LS3 will be better in every way. More power more displacement better flow. And if there was a bizarre defect (which I doubt), it'll surely get fixed as this is still early in the life of the LS3.

I believe it was Automobile that said the Camaro V6 chassis felt light years ahead of both the Mustang AND Challenger. They weren't just talking about V6 engines to V6 engines. They were comparing the V6 Camaro CHASSIS to the Chassis of the other cars. I'm buying V8 too, but it's obvious there's more to a car than an engine. The SRT-8 cars are supposed to handle "pretty well" for 2 ton cars. The Chassis on the Camaro is supposed to be light years ahead as far as responsiveness and feel.

And if the Camaro comes out at 30k it'll just sweeten the deal. Just because the Challenger is an overpriced car doesn't mean the Camaro will be.


On the subject of modding, the GT500 has the Camaro beat. A pulley swap takes about 10 minutes and with belt and quality pulley will cost you in the neighborhood of 300 dollars or so. You'll be on the road putting out more boost for about 500 bucks. A cam swap will cost you about 1500 dollars. Says my performance tuner for my GTO.

And MSRP has been 42k for the GT500 since it came out. There's been no increase. Some dealers are still selling them with markup but it's easier to get one at or close to MSRP now.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:26 PM   #24
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BTW we should have a meet when we get our cars
im game.

im at college right now, at UF up here in Gainesville, but i Live in naples.

haha how great would that be though?

We'd have to record it. ' The Camaro5 Comparison of Camaro SS and Challenger R/T'


i hope you handle defeat well


jk
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:28 PM   #25
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[QUOTE=kevin2323;123368]
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Originally Posted by HOTCIVIC View Post
Buy new SS Camaro, add following modifications: cam, LTs, CAI and DRs. Then tune. Say bye-bye to GT500 and supercharged Challenger.
you are dreaming of a white christmas as the song says.

that also goes for congos 34k fully loaded number. why cant anyone argue the gxp comment I made. Cuz it is probably true.
The GXP comment is just as flimsy. We don't know what it'll cost yet and there's no way they'd charge an extra 10k for an LS3 and better brakes. It's supposed to be the poor man's bmw, why would they put it out of the price range of the poor man. I guess you're just going by dodge's example though, right? Charger SRT-8 is 40k, Challenger SRT-8 is slightly more expensive. So Chevy couldn't possibly do better, right? That mercedes Chassis is apparently not cheap... Too bad it's clearly not worth the price.
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