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Old 09-07-2008, 01:50 PM   #1
Wanna-Be_Fast
 
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93 LT1, How much HP can it hold?

Hi All
I have a stock inside .....minor outside (Flowmaster, K&N cold air, Hypertech stage2 w/160 thermo) modified LT1 1993 Camaro. I've heard the 93-94 f-body LT1's are the weakest made. Anyone got any actual knowage about this?
When I got the car the LT1 was king of the street...... Comith the LS, it is now a very nice looking but inadiquit performing Camaro.
I was thinking of doing an LS swap, but this seems costly and involved.
I think after research just going with an STS turbo on the existing motor as a base platform is the way to go.
Now to my questions:
How much HP will a 2 bolt bottom end stock 93 LT1 hold without coming apart?
STS says thier turbo on a stock 93 makes almost 400 HP ..... Thats about 125 over what the factory gives it.
I want to start with the turbo, then down the road maybe change the heads (Edelbrock performers look good), intake manifold, cam. If I go turbo first then start making the other mods one at a time will it have to be retuned with every mod?
Besides just buying a newer Camaro with an LS already in it is what I plan feasable?
Any answers to my questions, info or sugestions would be greatly aprisiated.
Thanks Much!
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:27 PM   #2
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I don't think it was so much about the main bearing caps, crank, rods, and suck, it was more the hypereutectic (?sp?) pistons. They didn't like too much boost without inter/aftercooling. I believe I read many articles where OEM shortblocks were good into the 400s but careful tuning was critical. I'd be very cautious of turbos because I think I remember reading about the wastegate sometimes allowing more boost than what was dialed-in. Regardless, be cautious with regards to detonation and have a good tune and I think 400+ horse' won't stress it too much. JMVHO.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:29 PM   #3
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The engine will be fine, it is the tranny I would worry about.
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanna-Be_Fast View Post
Hi All
I have a stock inside .....minor outside (Flowmaster, K&N cold air, Hypertech stage2 w/160 thermo) modified LT1 1993 Camaro. I've heard the 93-94 f-body LT1's are the weakest made. Anyone got any actual knowage about this?
When I got the car the LT1 was king of the street...... Comith the LS, it is now a very nice looking but inadiquit performing Camaro.
I was thinking of doing an LS swap, but this seems costly and involved.
I think after research just going with an STS turbo on the existing motor as a base platform is the way to go.
Now to my questions:
How much HP will a 2 bolt bottom end stock 93 LT1 hold without coming apart?
STS says thier turbo on a stock 93 makes almost 400 HP ..... Thats about 125 over what the factory gives it.
I want to start with the turbo, then down the road maybe change the heads (Edelbrock performers look good), intake manifold, cam. If I go turbo first then start making the other mods one at a time will it have to be retuned with every mod?
Besides just buying a newer Camaro with an LS already in it is what I plan feasable?
Any answers to my questions, info or sugestions would be greatly aprisiated.
Thanks Much!
who told you the 93-94s were the weakest? prolly an LS guy who doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground. ill falcon punch him in the face.

the LS1 is a great engine in some aspects, but others the LT1 will still prevail.

an STS turbo is nice, but kinda boring IMO. i mean yea, ur boosted, but you are limited to about 8 psi. for the money you are going to drop on an STS, you could get a procharger and an intercooler and have better results.

as far as how much a 2 bolt bottom end will hold, thats up in the air, ive seen 600 rwhp setups on 2 bolts and ive seen 400hp setups break 2 bolts.

as for doing a turbo first, then other mods, that is basically going around your ass to get to your elbow. do all the bolt-ons you can (save for a larger t/b, aftermarket MAF....wait, you have a 93, you dont have a maf...), before moving to FI. unless you plan on rebuilding the motor completely, you need to maximize the power N/A first, then move to mild FI.

the key thing to it is tuning and making sure your mods complement each other. which that sentance got me thinking. if you want 400 hp, do a head/cam swap. or (if you have a dd) send your heads to Lloyd elliot and get them ported/polished along with a custom ground cam, and all new valvetrain. you can easily achieve 400hp n/a with a simple h/c swap.





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Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
I don't think it was so much about the main bearing caps, crank, rods, and suck, it was more the hypereutectic (?sp?) pistons. They didn't like too much boost without inter/aftercooling. I believe I read many articles where OEM shortblocks were good into the 400s but careful tuning was critical. I'd be very cautious of turbos because I think I remember reading about the wastegate sometimes allowing more boost than what was dialed-in. Regardless, be cautious with regards to detonation and have a good tune and I think 400+ horse' won't stress it too much. JMVHO.
2 bolt mains suck. plain and simple. however, they can hold some power, but if you are going to build a motor 4 bolt splayed mains are the way to go. forged EVERYTHING. the main problems with the LT1 and boost is the 10.5:1 static cr. ideally you want to be around 9.5 or so for a FI application. or keep the boost down. or intercool the shit out of it and spray methanol as well to keep temps down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Screw991le View Post
The engine will be fine, it is the tranny I would worry about.

actually, the rear end is what you should worry about. the 7.5" 10 bolt GM rear is not the most sturdy of rear ends. and the fact that he has a 93 means his transmission is not computer controlled, which is an added benefit.
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Old 09-07-2008, 07:30 PM   #5
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Thanks for giving me some in put..... My wish was to get into the 400 horse range without having the engine taken apart, and seeing the engine compartment is already so cramped I figured the STS was the way to go (if the compartment wasnt so tight I'd much rather do the super charger). Blowing a rear end or a trans I could live with and replace. But if I invested 5 or 6 G in a turbo then turned around and told the wife it blew up the engine, first she'd have me sell the car, then she'd cut my nuts off, then she'd divorce me, then she'd come back and shoot me with one of my own guns she gets in the divorce settelment.
Seeing I'd be reluctently satisfied aound 400 I get the feeling from the input I'd be better off taking the $ a turbo would cost and beefing up whats already there.

Next question ..... Whats involved swaping the LT to an LS? will it mount to the same location? Is only the LS wiring harness ECU needed or are the gauges all different electronics???? Will the LT trans (as weak as in may be, never the less) bolt up to an LS block? Seeing thier both small block V8 I take it all the suspension can stay?
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:26 PM   #6
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the swap IMO isnt worth it. as far as the cramped compartment, it'll be just as cramped with an LS1. the transmission will not swap as the bell housings are different. but dont expect to see 400hp to the wheels with an sts kit. if you turn the boost up, maybe, but doing that will be detrimental to the cause as ive stated before, these motors are made for high N/A compression. the reverse flow cooling design helps that immensely.


not to mention the fact that the Bolt-on record for the LT1 is 11.8 seconds (M6) and 11.6 seconds (A4). thats bolt on only motors making roughly 346 hp each.

having all the power in the world doesnt mean squat if you cant put it to the ground. id rather have a 300hp car that can hook all day long than a 400hp tire spinner.

btw, what all bolt-ons do you have done?
you've listed CAI and catback exhaust and 160* thermostat.

what about headers, t/b bypass, AIR/EGR delete, 1.6 rockers, tune?

also, these motors can handle a 150 shot o nitrous easily.
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:13 AM   #7
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The Nitrous I want to stay away from ... Besides the stories of heads going through the clouds with nitrous I want all the time performance not flip the swich an spray for a few seconds.
Besides the stuff you stated I have a Hypertech chip in it. Thats all so far.
As far as 1.6 rockers I'm looking at Edelbrock RPM Xtreme CNC LT4 Heads with 2.02" intakes, Maybe a regular GM LT4 intake, GM LT4 Hot Cam, shorty headers (to legally pass emisions). Its a daily driver so I'd like to keep all the gearing as is.... But at least go after market physically stronger componants in the (manual) trans and rear end.
As far as the t/b bypass and air/egr delete its my understanding that this will yeild from very very little to next to nothing..... is this not true?
I also agree with hooking vs putting on a screeching smoke show. Right now I'm on stock rims (I actually love the way they look on the car. Only wish they made them in chrome, a couple inches taller and a couple inches wider). The rubber is Firestone Firehawks...... Thing is when the wheels do spin (on dry pavement)they don't make a sound.... almost act like the street is wet? But rims and rubber is the easy part, I think I can handle that when the rest of the car has the beef to really need it.
You see anything wrong with the way I plan to do it (piece meal as the $ can be pry'd away from the wife)?
Any thing I could do better for about the same $ ?
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:55 AM   #8
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If you do decide to go with nitrous oxide, just make sure you don't "blow the welds on your intake manifold". LOL
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanna-Be_Fast View Post
The Nitrous I want to stay away from ... Besides the stories of heads going through the clouds with nitrous I want all the time performance not flip the swich an spray for a few seconds.
Besides the stuff you stated I have a Hypertech chip in it. Thats all so far.
As far as 1.6 rockers I'm looking at Edelbrock RPM Xtreme CNC LT4 Heads with 2.02" intakes, Maybe a regular GM LT4 intake, GM LT4 Hot Cam, shorty headers (to legally pass emisions). Its a daily driver so I'd like to keep all the gearing as is.... But at least go after market physically stronger componants in the (manual) trans and rear end.
As far as the t/b bypass and air/egr delete its my understanding that this will yeild from very very little to next to nothing..... is this not true?
I also agree with hooking vs putting on a screeching smoke show. Right now I'm on stock rims (I actually love the way they look on the car. Only wish they made them in chrome, a couple inches taller and a couple inches wider). The rubber is Firestone Firehawks...... Thing is when the wheels do spin (on dry pavement)they don't make a sound.... almost act like the street is wet? But rims and rubber is the easy part, I think I can handle that when the rest of the car has the beef to really need it.
You see anything wrong with the way I plan to do it (piece meal as the $ can be pry'd away from the wife)?
Any thing I could do better for about the same $ ?

while the t/b bypass wont net you a lot of hp alone, you gotta remember that you want your modifications to benefit each other. same thing goes for say, throwing in a huge donkey dick cam and not upgrading the fuel system or getting a tune. the t/b bypass is proven to gain up to 7 hp. while that might not seem like a lot, consider the fact that the intake air was also running about 10* cooler. just like any other mod, it wont always gain you the manufacturer's hp claims, tho im sure they got the numbers they claim ONCE after tuning the shit out of the car.

and im glad you share the mentality of having power all the time...

If you go with the LT4 heads or intake, you must have the other, the LT4 intake manifold is slightly raised over the stock intake and wont work with stock heads and the stock intake manifold wont work with LT4 heads.

however.....if you are planning on spending that kind of money, you can have your stock heads and intake ported and have new valvetrain installed (better than the LT4, cus the LT4 springs arent really all that great), swap out the lifters and cam.


if you are shooting for 400hp, contact Lloyd Elliot about his LE2 package.
his email is nighttrain66@msn.com
and you can scroll down and read about his packages here:
http://www.elliottsportworks.com/lt1.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
If you do decide to go with nitrous oxide, just make sure you don't "blow the welds on your intake manifold". LOL
good one... ha.....ha....ha....
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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
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Quote:
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
the swap IMO isnt worth it. as far as the cramped compartment, it'll be just as cramped with an LS1. the transmission will not swap as the bell housings are different. but dont expect to see 400hp to the wheels with an sts kit. if you turn the boost up, maybe, but doing that will be detrimental to the cause as ive stated before, these motors are made for high N/A compression. the reverse flow cooling design helps that immensely.


not to mention the fact that the Bolt-on record for the LT1 is 11.8 seconds (M6) and 11.6 seconds (A4). thats bolt on only motors making roughly 346 hp each.

having all the power in the world doesnt mean squat if you cant put it to the ground. id rather have a 300hp car that can hook all day long than a 400hp tire spinner.

btw, what all bolt-ons do you have done?
you've listed CAI and catback exhaust and 160* thermostat.

what about headers, t/b bypass, AIR/EGR delete, 1.6 rockers, tune?

also, these motors can handle a 150 shot o nitrous easily.
I know the LS1 is smaller on the exterior, but I think things are just layed out a little better than the LT1. I know that servicing on my LT1 was always a PITA, but it's subjective (I'm an LS1 guy, LOL.) I think you'd be better off keeping your LT1 on build on that baby, JMVHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanna-Be_Fast View Post
The Nitrous I want to stay away from ... Besides the stories of heads going through the clouds with nitrous I want all the time performance not flip the swich an spray for a few seconds.
Besides the stuff you stated I have a Hypertech chip in it. Thats all so far.
As far as 1.6 rockers I'm looking at Edelbrock RPM Xtreme CNC LT4 Heads with 2.02" intakes, Maybe a regular GM LT4 intake, GM LT4 Hot Cam, shorty headers (to legally pass emisions). Its a daily driver so I'd like to keep all the gearing as is.... But at least go after market physically stronger componants in the (manual) trans and rear end.
As far as the t/b bypass and air/egr delete its my understanding that this will yeild from very very little to next to nothing..... is this not true?
I also agree with hooking vs putting on a screeching smoke show. Right now I'm on stock rims (I actually love the way they look on the car. Only wish they made them in chrome, a couple inches taller and a couple inches wider). The rubber is Firestone Firehawks...... Thing is when the wheels do spin (on dry pavement)they don't make a sound.... almost act like the street is wet? But rims and rubber is the easy part, I think I can handle that when the rest of the car has the beef to really need it.
You see anything wrong with the way I plan to do it (piece meal as the $ can be pry'd away from the wife)?
Any thing I could do better for about the same $ ?
I believe GM had put together an LT4 conversion kit sometime ago; check Summit Racing. I know I've seen it in there for like $2300 or so depending on year. I'm not sure about Edelbrock stuff yet. No, I haven't had experience with their stuff, but it just doesn't always seem to perform as well as modified OEM stuff. For example, their LS1 heads don't seem to produce quite as much power as ported OEM castings. I remember a head shoot-out, in particular, where Livernois 243 CNC'd heads blew away the Edelbrocks (although I think they were running a bit small in the valves...) Anyways, I just read the newest GMHTP where they tested and Edelbrock LT1 intake and didn't gain a whole lot in power. I don't remember what th curve looked like, but to me, it didn't seem worth the trouble. They'll be testing Edelbrock heads soon, so if you're interested, I'd keep that in mind for the future. I'd go with GMPP stuff first though, just because I've seen many tests that put 430 horse' through the dyno' with LT4 intake, heads, and hotcam. JMVHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
If you do decide to go with nitrous oxide, just make sure you don't "blow the welds on your intake manifold". LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
while the t/b bypass wont net you a lot of hp alone, you gotta remember that you want your modifications to benefit each other. same thing goes for say, throwing in a huge donkey dick cam and not upgrading the fuel system or getting a tune. the t/b bypass is proven to gain up to 7 hp. while that might not seem like a lot, consider the fact that the intake air was also running about 10* cooler. just like any other mod, it wont always gain you the manufacturer's hp claims, tho im sure they got the numbers they claim ONCE after tuning the shit out of the car.

and im glad you share the mentality of having power all the time...

If you go with the LT4 heads or intake, you must have the other, the LT4 intake manifold is slightly raised over the stock intake and wont work with stock heads and the stock intake manifold wont work with LT4 heads.

however.....if you are planning on spending that kind of money, you can have your stock heads and intake ported and have new valvetrain installed (better than the LT4, cus the LT4 springs arent really all that great), swap out the lifters and cam.


if you are shooting for 400hp, contact Lloyd Elliot about his LE2 package.
his email is nighttrain66@msn.com
and you can scroll down and read about his packages here:
http://www.elliottsportworks.com/lt1.html





good one... ha.....ha....ha....
This sounds like an excellent idea too. I remember Lingenfelter had a nice top-end kit that put down somewhere around 380 to the tire and was drivable. I don't remember if it would pass the sniffer, but that's another option. I've done some reading on Golen too, so you have a bunch of options out there.

Good luck.
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:00 AM   #11
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Golen builds some wicked crazy engines. 396 LT1 made for boost... are you kidding me? lol pricey, but you get what you pay for...

also, i found a site listing the basics for an LT1 and LS1 swap in these cars...

http://www.hpsalvage.com/

click on swap tips
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