Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
autoguy
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-12-2008, 06:22 PM   #35
drivingincamaro


 
drivingincamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 civic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago Illinois
Posts: 5,796
i dont understand why couldnt they put a the z06s engine in the camaro? or is this been discussed alredy?

no flaming please
__________________
drivingincamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 06:32 PM   #36
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,052
The LS7 has pretty much been confirmed to be discontinued soon, along with the LS2. There was some speculation elsewhere that there was another version of a supercharged 6.2, called the LS8, that was thought to be the replacement for the LS7, but there has been no confirmation In addition, 'Father himself has said using the LS7 would put an extraordinary price on Camaro, so it's definately out.
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 06:38 PM   #37
The_Stache
SoCal Race Team #13
 
The_Stache's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1SS:RS:LS3:SW
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,794
The problem I always see with the Z/28 issue is that everyone either wants one of two things...

A. forced induction engine.
B. reduced weight.

The reasons against EITHER of these is so obvious its hard for me not to shake my head ...

With forced induction you start to kill gas mileage... so this is going to be a cafe negative meaning that they will want to limit the total # of produced units.. aka a marked up specialty vehicle. So all those waiting will either have to wait longer (due to lines and limited production) OR they will be paying a LARGE premium.

With reduced weight... people forget that this camaro was built on a SEDAN chasis meaning that a good portion of the weight is in the chassis, NOT in things like electronics, accessories etc.. The most absolute most the camaro could lose would be about 500lbs. BUT to achieve this you will be losing basically everything but the engine and required equipment (front airbags, turn signals, wipers, third brake light). What this means is you wont get a back seat, or sound dampening, or carpet, or a dash, or power anything, no sound, no radio, no hvac.... and now how many do you think when they charge upwards of 40-50k(yes changes in the manufacturing pocess cost this much!) for a stripped out hull? People will look at it and say.. nope i can have all that back for the same price for a GT500 with less of the wait time.

Honestly if 400HP+ HP isn't enough for you then pretty much ANY production car under 40k isn't for you. If you want to spend more than that start looking into the right market because the camaro isn't it.
__________________
A.K.A - Diarmadhi (old handle) - So much to do.. So little money
Owner : Fast-Stache Industries LLC
The_Stache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 06:38 PM   #38
The Great KJ
The Great KJ
 
The Great KJ's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Challenger R/T & 05 Caravan
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Longmont Colorado
Posts: 478
Send a message via Yahoo to The Great KJ
I'm going looking for the aftermarket place that can build me this
Attached Images
  
__________________
Former Cars - 1980 Z28 / 1987 IROC-Z / 1991 Z28
The Great KJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 10:51 PM   #39
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 26,370
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
The problem I always see with the Z/28 issue is that everyone either wants one of two things...

A. forced induction engine.
B. reduced weight.

The reasons against EITHER of these is so obvious its hard for me not to shake my head ...
I wonder though, Diarmadhi...if you nailed the reasons we're talking about this....but kept them separate. When the Z28 comes out...chances are it'll cost more than an SS. Probably, like you said, in the range of ~$40,000-$50,000. As far as I can tell -- people generally accept this. So...the underlying argument at this point is what to do with that extra $10-$20 grand?

Should they take some mass out (maybe a little less than the V6), bump the V8 a few ponies, and severely beat down the GT500 on the track?

Or should they strap on a blower, reinforce the drive-train, and beat down the GT500 on the drag strip?

Both of these routes would stay comfortable in the sense that you still have HVAC, and radio, etc...but they differ in their approach to performance and conformity to CAFE, imo.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 11:17 PM   #40
kevin2323


 
Drives: challenger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: miami
Posts: 2,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckellyme3 View Post
Could def see it happening. But who in their right mind is going to wait yet another 4 years??
who in their right mind would pay the price dealers would want for that lol.
kevin2323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 11:30 PM   #41
13F20
 
Drives: Soon to be 2010 Camaro SS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: GA, soon to be KS.
Posts: 675
If GM is looking to reduce weight on the vehicle. Perhaps they could go in this direction for frame metal use.
1. Aircraft aluminum alloy
2. Titanium carbon w/ compressed Aluminum alloy.
3. 4142 steel “chromoly”
13F20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 11:34 PM   #42
kevin2323


 
Drives: challenger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: miami
Posts: 2,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13F20 View Post
If GM is looking to reduce weight on the vehicle. Perhaps they could go in this direction for frame metal use.
1. Aircraft aluminum alloy
2. Titanium carbon w/ compressed Aluminum alloy.
3. 4142 steel “chromoly”
prob. too expensive.
kevin2323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2008, 11:46 PM   #43
13F20
 
Drives: Soon to be 2010 Camaro SS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: GA, soon to be KS.
Posts: 675
In regards to being very $. I am all to aware of that. People are already saying that the car would be limited production. They are expecting to pay $45-50K, for the car. So keep the car as is for the most part. Maybe add a blower and do a cam/ pulley swap. Lower the car 1 inch with the reduced weight. Tune the suspension similar but not exactly like the ZR1, and there you go. Reduce weight with synthetic or elemental materials, and there you have it. No CAFÉ issues, no use of a more expensive engine, and every ones happy.
13F20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 12:09 AM   #44
kevin2323


 
Drives: challenger
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: miami
Posts: 2,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13F20 View Post
In regards to being very $. I am all to aware of that. People are already saying that the car would be limited production. They are expecting to pay $45-50K, for the car. So keep the car as is for the most part. Maybe add a blower and do a cam/ pulley swap. Lower the car 1 inch with the reduced weight. Tune the suspension similar but not exactly like the ZR1, and there you go. Reduce weight with synthetic or elemental materials, and there you have it. No CAFÉ issues, no use of a more expensive engine, and every ones happy.
probably more towards the 50-60k range IMO.
kevin2323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 01:56 AM   #45
JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR
SSiCk MeMbEr!!!
 
JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR's Avatar
 
Drives: HeAviLy MoDDeD 2010 SS CaMaRo!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: MeRRiLLviLLe, IN
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
The problem I always see with the Z/28 issue is that everyone either wants one of two things...

A. forced induction engine.
B. reduced weight.

The reasons against EITHER of these is so obvious its hard for me not to shake my head ...

With forced induction you start to kill gas mileage... so this is going to be a cafe negative meaning that they will want to limit the total # of produced units.. aka a marked up specialty vehicle. So all those waiting will either have to wait longer (due to lines and limited production) OR they will be paying a LARGE premium.

With reduced weight... people forget that this camaro was built on a SEDAN chasis meaning that a good portion of the weight is in the chassis, NOT in things like electronics, accessories etc.. The most absolute most the camaro could lose would be about 500lbs. BUT to achieve this you will be losing basically everything but the engine and required equipment (front airbags, turn signals, wipers, third brake light). What this means is you wont get a back seat, or sound dampening, or carpet, or a dash, or power anything, no sound, no radio, no hvac.... and now how many do you think when they charge upwards of 40-50k(yes changes in the manufacturing pocess cost this much!) for a stripped out hull? People will look at it and say.. nope i can have all that back for the same price for a GT500 with less of the wait time.

Honestly if 400HP+ HP isn't enough for you then pretty much ANY production car under 40k isn't for you. If you want to spend more than that start looking into the right market because the camaro isn't it.
Dude you just made some really good sense! I like how you worded that! LoL!
__________________
JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 09:41 AM   #46
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
The problem I always see with the Z/28 issue is that everyone either wants one of two things...

A. forced induction engine.
B. reduced weight.

The reasons against EITHER of these is so obvious its hard for me not to shake my head ...

With forced induction you start to kill gas mileage... so this is going to be a cafe negative meaning that they will want to limit the total # of produced units.. aka a marked up specialty vehicle. So all those waiting will either have to wait longer (due to lines and limited production) OR they will be paying a LARGE premium.

With reduced weight... people forget that this camaro was built on a SEDAN chasis meaning that a good portion of the weight is in the chassis, NOT in things like electronics, accessories etc.. The most absolute most the camaro could lose would be about 500lbs. BUT to achieve this you will be losing basically everything but the engine and required equipment (front airbags, turn signals, wipers, third brake light). What this means is you wont get a back seat, or sound dampening, or carpet, or a dash, or power anything, no sound, no radio, no hvac.... and now how many do you think when they charge upwards of 40-50k(yes changes in the manufacturing pocess cost this much!) for a stripped out hull? People will look at it and say.. nope i can have all that back for the same price for a GT500 with less of the wait time.

Honestly if 400HP+ HP isn't enough for you then pretty much ANY production car under 40k isn't for you. If you want to spend more than that start looking into the right market because the camaro isn't it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I wonder though, Diarmadhi...if you nailed the reasons we're talking about this....but kept them separate. When the Z28 comes out...chances are it'll cost more than an SS. Probably, like you said, in the range of ~$40,000-$50,000. As far as I can tell -- people generally accept this. So...the underlying argument at this point is what to do with that extra $10-$20 grand?

Should they take some mass out (maybe a little less than the V6), bump the V8 a few ponies, and severely beat down the GT500 on the track?

Or should they strap on a blower, reinforce the drive-train, and beat down the GT500 on the drag strip?

Both of these routes would stay comfortable in the sense that you still have HVAC, and radio, etc...but they differ in their approach to performance and conformity to CAFE, imo.
I'd plan on spending about $45K on what I'd like regarding a higher performance Camaro. It would definately be nice for GM to do on of these (the latter, preferably ) but I guess we have to wait and see

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin2323 View Post
probably more towards the 50-60k range IMO.
I wonder how much of the price of an LS7 is affected by the materials they use. The titanium rods, according to: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...price+ls7+rods are $441 EACH Additionally, considering the price (allegedly - http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f7/c6...enders-106015/) of a single CF fender on a Z06 is about $400 a fender, the talk of using exotic materials, and keeping price close to a GT500, IMVHO, just don't add up. GM isn't going to use titanium in the suspension, and they aren't likely to go through more crash testing for CF body panels so I just can't bite on the whole light-weight thing. People may point to aftermarket examples as being relatively cheap, however, I'm pretty sure GM's testing standards really explode the price because of all the R&D they do on everything. No disrespect, but I just don't see the light-weight thing happening. I don't see a $70K Camaro, from GM, in the cards...
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 10:30 AM   #47
fastball
White 'n Nerdy
 
Drives: 2009 Accord EX-L V6 coupe 6 speed
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,408
I didn't even bother reading this entire thread after the first post before I thought of my response......

There is nothing to say about any Z/28 untill you hear it directly from Fbodfather. I'm sick and tired of people formulating their own opinions, and then trying to shop them around to us as "facts", when all they are are myths and possibilities.

Untill Scott gives us the truth as he knows them to be, whether they will make the Z/28 or not, and if so how it will be built, there is nothing for anyone to say about it.

As Scott has said, all their plans for the car are up in the air, but nothing has been comitted. In other words, if he don't know, then YOU don't know!

Give it a rest and move on with life. Buy an SS and be happy.
fastball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 12:36 PM   #48
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastball View Post
I didn't even bother reading this entire thread after the first post before I thought of my response......

There is nothing to say about any Z/28 untill you hear it directly from Fbodfather. I'm sick and tired of people formulating their own opinions, and then trying to shop them around to us as "facts", when all they are are myths and possibilities.

Untill Scott gives us the truth as he knows them to be, whether they will make the Z/28 or not, and if so how it will be built, there is nothing for anyone to say about it.

As Scott has said, all their plans for the car are up in the air, but nothing has been comitted. In other words, if he don't know, then YOU don't know!

Give it a rest and move on with life. Buy an SS and be happy.

With all due respect, I don't think it's appropropriate to leave a response without reading the content of the thread if you are going to tell someone what to do, buy, or be happy with. If you're sick and tired of reading threads like these, then stop. Some people value opinions and ideas of others.

JMVHO.
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 03:46 PM   #49
2010_5thgen


 
2010_5thgen's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Porsche Panamera 4
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,277
if the CAFE regulations dont go into affect until 2020, i dont understand why they cant build the s/c version now and then still have time to change a few things about it and get within the standards before then. they could build it for a few years and then totally re do it before regulations kick in.
__________________
http://www.gofundme.com/n7ne44

2012 Porsche Panamera 4
2010_5thgen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 03:48 PM   #50
big_dog
Future Z28 Owner.
 
Drives: Future Camaro Owner
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 239
personally speaking, i just want a camaro with the name plate "Z/28", i dont care if its lighter, or flames come out of the tailpipe, cause for me to say "I onw a Camaro Z/28", thats like saying "I own you, now go get me a donut", but anyway no one else can associate their car name with Z/28 unless they have a camaro, and Z/28 is like the most unique title EVER

i wouldnt mind some fire breathing tailpipes though
__________________
It was reported that one of my brethren auto writers of the day fell into the trap and asked Chevrolet officials, “What is a Camaro?” “A small, vicious animal that eats mustangs,” Chevy said. Game on, Ford.
big_dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2008, 04:54 PM   #51
fastball
White 'n Nerdy
 
Drives: 2009 Accord EX-L V6 coupe 6 speed
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by big_dog View Post
personally speaking, i just want a camaro with the name plate "Z/28", i dont care if its lighter, or flames come out of the tailpipe, cause for me to say "I onw a Camaro Z/28", thats like saying "I own you, now go get me a donut", but anyway no one else can associate their car name with Z/28 unless they have a camaro, and Z/28 is like the most unique title EVER

i wouldnt mind some fire breathing tailpipes though
I do agree with you here.

I personally believe that the reason GM opted to go with SS instead of Z/28 is due to their marketing department or lack thereof.

The Z/28 badge on what is now the SS would not be a mockery or degrading the herritage of the name. It has 390-422 hp and lots of torque. With the handling we are being promised and the option of 20" rims and Brembo brakes, theres nothing about what is now the SS that would be a slap in the face to the Z/28. But, since the current GM brain(less) trust seems to think every Chevy ever made should have an SS version, SS it is and Z/28 may be just a pipe dream now.
fastball is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Message to all Fbody Enthusiasts TAG UR IT 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 12 02-02-2013 08:41 PM
Camaro Laws ChevyNut Off-topic Discussions 102 06-06-2011 11:34 PM
GM memo to dealers Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 41 02-04-2010 08:33 PM
2010 camaro or 2011 supercharged version? logan1080 Forced Induction - V8 39 09-01-2008 08:15 PM
Modified Camaro collection tzh Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 2 05-15-2008 07:04 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.