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Old 09-09-2008, 05:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I do believe there was a little misquoting going on. First of all: WELCOME!! I hope you enjoy the site! Second; The intake and exhaust treatment gave a 31 rwhp gain in the 3.6DI. It was rounded off to 40 bhp for conversation's sake. Still...this is WITHOUT a tune. I think that speaks volumes about the V6's potential.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:32 PM   #16
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The new Cobalt SS is one of the best handling FWD cars around. But the Camaro V6 is RWD and will feel much more fun, plus it looks way better IMO.
Oh def. It looks better, it's not wrong wheel drive, even the base V6 will have some power to it, it's pretty damn fuel efficient for a car it's size and power, and its interior doesn't look like crap compared to the Cobalt. I'm pretty sure this is going to be my next car.

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Thanks for correcting that dragon... I was actually just about to do it when I noticed you beat me
Yeah, when I heard 40whp I was like wow, but heck 31whp is still pretty darn good.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:42 PM   #17
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I think you may have missed a very important point here when comparing the Cobalt SS to the Camaro v6 and how well they take to mods. You've already got a turbo on the Cobalt but you don't have it on the Camaro. Add a turbo or SC to the Camaro and then talk about responsiveness to mods.
That is an irrelevant point. Why would you bother boosting the V6? You might as well get the V8 then. Do you know how much those kits cost to buy and install? Try like 8g's

So I didn't miss anything. Yes the Cobalt is already boosted which means it will take to mods much better then the stock V6. If you want to argue the "well money isn't a factor" point then yes you can probably make the V6 faster in the end but man would it cost you.

The cobalt is already quicker then the V6 stock for stock. Now throw on an UP and DP and tune the Cobalt and it will run circles around it. Don't forget that the Cobalt is like 600 lbs lighter too if not more. Overall HP # doesn't mean squat. It comes down to how well the car can use it to move weight.

I would argue that with less then 3 grand you could make the Cobalt SS run with or beat the SS (stock). And as much as you would love to believe that you can get 40 Hp from and intake and exhaust with NO tune you are crazy. Do you know how restrictive that system would have had to have been? Now with a tune and for 93 octane I would believe it. I read that post and you have to realize that they people that posted that thread are vendors and are trying to sell their products. You can very easily alter dyno charts to make them look like whatever you like. Seen that before. Vendors love to do that. Haven't you ever seen what K&N claims you get from just a drop in filter? 15 RWHP pleaaaase. Take some of this with a grain of salt, especially from a vendor.

I was in the tuning business. On a stock STI for example, the intake produces NEGATIVE HP unless tuned for. The MAF doesn't read the new g/s well enough and it bogs the car. Unless there is a really smart ECU that learns trims and timing that well, no car will be able to "use" that more in more out without telling it what to do with air/fuel etc.

Im not trying to piss in anyone's popcorn here, it is just that i have been there and seen hundreds of cars on dynos and I know a little about this stuff. And what I don't get is if you are looking to mod the crap out of the V6 why are you even looking at the V6? It will cost you more and ruin your warrenty then just spending the extra few grand to get the SS
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:49 PM   #18
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:51 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
And as much as you would love to believe that you can get 40 Hp from and intake and exhaust with NO tune you are crazy. Do you know how restrictive that system would have had to have been? Now with a tune and for 93 octane I would believe it.
Follow the link-trail to the Cadillac forums, there are dyno-charts to prove it (unless they're making it ALL up...). I dunno if GM restricted the hell out of it, or the DI system likes breathing mods...but it's for real: +31rwp with an intake an exhaust with no tune.


EDIT: I read you went there. So you don't believe the charts?
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:53 PM   #20
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That is an irrelevant point. Why would you bother boosting the V6? You might as well get the V8 then. Do you know how much those kits cost to buy and install? Try like 8g's

So I didn't miss anything. Yes the Cobalt is already boosted which means it will take to mods much better then the stock V6. If you want to argue the "well money isn't a factor" point then yes you can probably make the V6 faster in the end but man would it cost you.

The cobalt is already quicker then the V6 stock for stock. Now throw on an UP and DP and tune the Cobalt and it will run circles around it. Don't forget that the Cobalt is like 600 lbs lighter too if not more. Overall HP # doesn't mean squat. It comes down to how well the car can use it to move weight.

I would argue that with less then 3 grand you could make the Cobalt SS run with or beat the SS (stock). And as much as you would love to believe that you can get 40 Hp from and intake and exhaust with NO tune you are crazy. Do you know how restrictive that system would have had to have been? Now with a tune and for 93 octane I would believe it. I read that post and you have to realize that they people that posted that thread are vendors and are trying to sell their products. You can very easily alter dyno charts to make them look like whatever you like. Seen that before. Vendors love to do that. Haven't you ever seen what K&N claims you get from just a drop in filter? 15 RWHP pleaaaase. Take some of this with a grain of salt, especially from a vendor.

I was in the tuning business. On a stock STI for example, the intake produces NEGATIVE HP unless tuned for. The MAF doesn't read the new g/s well enough and it bogs the car. Unless there is a really smart ECU that learns trims and timing that well, no car will be able to "use" that more in more out without telling it what to do with air/fuel etc.

Im not trying to piss in anyone's popcorn here, it is just that i have been there and seen hundreds of cars on dynos and I know a little about this stuff. And what I don't get is if you are looking to mod the crap out of the V6 why are you even looking at the V6? It will cost you more and ruin your warrenty then just spending the extra few grand to get the SS

Several reasons really,

The first being insurance... v8 insurance > v6 insurance, no matter what age you are.

The second being, yes you could mod a v6 up to equal the price of a v8, but the mods would be done SLOWLY, and OVER TIME, so it still ends up being cheaper in the end, unless you have enough cash laying around to pay for the whole v8 car upfront, without having to deal with loans/financing/etc.

Third, its always nice to get comments like "Wow, that's a six?" After running someone, or giving them a ride in your car, big power is EXPECTED from an 8, its always fun to surprise people with a six.

I'm sure I've got more, and so do others, but you get the point.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
Several reasons really,

The first being insurance... v8 insurance > v6 insurance, no matter what age you are.

The second being, yes you could mod a v6 up to equal the price of a v8, but the mods would be done SLOWLY, and OVER TIME, so it still ends up being cheaper in the end, unless you have enough cash laying around to pay for the whole v8 car upfront, without having to deal with loans/financing/etc.

Third, its always nice to get comments like "Wow, that's a six?" After running someone, or giving them a ride in your car, big power is EXPECTED from an 8, its always fun to surprise people with a six.

I'm sure I've got more, and so do others, but you get the point.
You've made some great points. There's a lot of good reasons to get the LLT Camaro.

My favorite is your third reason because it carries the underdog, or sleeper, factor. When a V6 punishes a V8, the V6 driver feels pretty good.

V6s don't have to cost less than V8s. Nowadays, insurance companies go off of value more than cylinders. A Camaro SS may cost less to an insurer than a 350Z at release despite having a couple more horsepower-pumping cylinders under the hood. The Camaro LS will run with that same 350Z, and beating a stock one will be easy with just a few bolt-ons.

Additionally, there's the fuel efficiency issue. 3-4 mpg isn't really that big of a deal for a lot of people, but every little bit helps. No one likes gas prices, and a V6 can go farther and get pushed harder with less expense.

Moreover, there's the weight factor. The V6 weighs less. That's probably a favorite, especially since the same modifications will be added to V8s, but the V6 won't have too much trouble making up most of the difference in horsepower between the LS and the SS. With that difference, a tuner can get a better horsepower-weight ratio. The LLT is exceptionally responsive to mods, so adding a lot of power without having the weight to match is a very real possibility.

Let's not forget about the appearance factor. You can get a body kit for the difference in price, and that body kit may not get factored into insurance or other costs in the same way that the stock design does. That, of course, is up to the insurance company.

Basically, the Camaro LS is just as justifiable as the Camaro SS. It represents a remarkable performance in the area of V6 motors, and it will shame so many V8s. Enthusiasts shouldn't shy away because it lacks 2 cylinders. The Camaro LS is really a worthwhile buy.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:04 PM   #22
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Blur needs a V8 though.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:07 PM   #23
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Blur needs a V8 though.
I really do.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:38 PM   #24
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If I were you I would choose the camaro over the cobalt... the cobalt is a dead duck.... resale value is going to suck...outdated body style... boring interior... I know this because I own the sister car...an 08 pontiac g5 gt. im planning on getting a camaro v6 with the rs package. Another way to look at it tho too... from a safety standpoint, about six weeks ago, i had a girl hit me from the front end she ran a red light, It completly obliverated my G5s front end, i was going 25mph, so was she. $10,000 to fix too, its still in the shop. But the camaro is a lot bigger heavier, safer looking car to me than the old cobalt/g5 body. camaro will have MUCH better resale value too.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:54 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
Im not trying to piss in anyone's popcorn here, it is just that i have been there and seen hundreds of cars on dynos and I know a little about this stuff. And what I don't get is if you are looking to mod the crap out of the V6 why are you even looking at the V6? It will cost you more and ruin your warranty then just spending the extra few grand to get the SS
I def get where you are coming from. And I actually wouldn't want to get a V6 Camaro and then spend thousands of dollars on mods to get it up to V8 power levels. If I wanted that then I'd just save up some extra dough, maybe wait a little longer to get it and then just get a Camaro SS.

Don't get me wrong if I could afford the Camaro SS, I'd probably get it. But I'm looking for something that will be a better alternative to the Cobalt SS that I'm driving, and hopefully a better alternative to the Cobalt SS Turbocharged that I was originally planning on getting.

So keep in mind I'm still looking for something that is sporty, quick, fuel efficient, affordable, and isn't FWD preferably. Also still being a 2dr coupe, with some decent trunk space.

I looked into possibly getting the Solstice Coupe GXP when it comes out next year, which fits that criteria but it's probably too small for my needs, so I had to scratch that off. The next car I was considering was a 350Z but the only 350Z I can afford would be the base model, which unfortunately doesn't come with jack, and would cost as much as a Camaro SS... So scratch that...

Then I don't know why I thought of it sooner I thought about the Camaro...
The Camaro LT w RS appearance package would basically fit all my criteria.
RWD yes, sporty, hell yes, fuel efficient, the V6 would be, affordable, looks like it will be, and it's still a 2dr coupe which is what I'm looking for. And it's also a little bigger a 2+2 seater compared to the Solstice & 350Z that only have two seats.

And with a little hope, I'd hope there would be some aftermarket potential with the V6 so that it would still be quick and fun, like my Cobalt SS is.

In a nutshell that's why I'm considering the Camaro and a V6 one at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
Several reasons really,

The first being insurance... v8 insurance > v6 insurance, no matter what age you are.
Insurance won't be a problem, if the 350Z and Solstice were only $100 roughly more than what I'm paying yearly for my Cobalt SS, then I'm sure a V6 Camaro should be ok too.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
The second being, yes you could mod a v6 up to equal the price of a v8, but the mods would be done SLOWLY, and OVER TIME, so it still ends up being cheaper in the end, unless you have enough cash laying around to pay for the whole v8 car upfront, without having to deal with loans/financing/etc.
Yeah down the road, I'd love to slap a turbo or supercharger on it, If I don't already have a Camaro SS by then. But I'm just looking to make like 50-70hp off the V6, or enough to get me in the high 13"s and I'd be satisfied...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowsong View Post
Third, its always nice to get comments like "Wow, that's a six?" After running someone, or giving them a ride in your car, big power is EXPECTED from an 8, its always fun to surprise people with a six.

I'm sure I've got more, and so do others, but you get the point.
Even that too, although I'd expect to get ripped on for having a "V6" Camaro but just wait until they race it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
You've made some great points. There's a lot of good reasons to get the LLT Camaro.

My favorite is your third reason because it carries the underdog, or sleeper, factor. When a V6 punishes a V8, the V6 driver feels pretty good.

V6s don't have to cost less than V8s. Nowadays, insurance companies go off of value more than cylinders. A Camaro SS may cost less to an insurer than a 350Z at release despite having a couple more horsepower-pumping cylinders under the hood. The Camaro LS will run with that same 350Z, and beating a stock one will be easy with just a few bolt-ons.

Additionally, there's the fuel efficiency issue. 3-4 mpg isn't really that big of a deal for a lot of people, but every little bit helps. No one likes gas prices, and a V6 can go farther and get pushed harder with less expense.

Moreover, there's the weight factor. The V6 weighs less. That's probably a favorite, especially since the same modifications will be added to V8s, but the V6 won't have too much trouble making up most of the difference in horsepower between the LS and the SS. With that difference, a tuner can get a better horsepower-weight ratio. The LLT is exceptionally responsive to mods, so adding a lot of power without having the weight to match is a very real possibility.

Let's not forget about the appearance factor. You can get a body kit for the difference in price, and that body kit may not get factored into insurance or other costs in the same way that the stock design does. That, of course, is up to the insurance company.

Basically, the Camaro LS is just as justifiable as the Camaro SS. It represents a remarkable performance in the area of V6 motors, and it will shame so many V8s. Enthusiasts shouldn't shy away because it lacks 2 cylinders. The Camaro LS is really a worthwhile buy.
Totally what I think.

Listen I know that the Camaro SS is going to have the most potential, and If I was looking at having the fastest car or something, well 1.) I'd look into something quicker like a Corvette
2.) I'm just looking for an alternative to what I'm driving, that will have some potential for mods, and will most importantly be something fun and enjoyable to drive.

And I think I can find that with the Camaro LT...
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:01 PM   #26
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If I were you I would choose the camaro over the cobalt... the cobalt is a dead duck.... resale value is going to suck...outdated body style... boring interior... I know this because I own the sister car...an 08 pontiac g5 gt. im planning on getting a camaro v6 with the rs package. Another way to look at it tho too... from a safety standpoint, about six weeks ago, i had a girl hit me from the front end she ran a red light, It completly obliverated my G5s front end, i was going 25mph, so was she. $10,000 to fix too, its still in the shop. But the camaro is a lot bigger heavier, safer looking car to me than the old cobalt/g5 body. camaro will have MUCH better resale value too.
When I leased my Cobalt SS/SC I knew I wouldn't have to worry about re-sale values because I'm turning it in. But yeah I was planning on purchasing the SS/TC and you are right about the crappy resale value... In the end I'd lose more on it then I would with the Camaro. It is also safer, I don't really feel safe in the Cobalt just knowing if I get hit by an S.U.V at high speeds I'm probably a goner... And yeah Camaro has much better style, unique looking interior... etc

Thanks for the replies! Good to see there are other people out there wanting the Camaro LT w RS package like me!
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:26 PM   #27
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as much as I LOVE to have a SS with the V8 I have to admit the V6 with 300hp stock is more than enough for me. that and the better MPG C/H. I plan on getting a LT coupe in either Cyber Gray or the dark red (black hood and rear deck stripes if I get the red) and I am SO getting those 3rd generation IROC looking 18" alloys, the 20's on the RS trim package are just a bit too much for me.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:46 PM   #28
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as much as I LOVE to have a SS with the V8 I have to admit the V6 with 300hp stock is more than enough for me. that and the better MPG C/H. I plan on getting a LT coupe in either Cyber Gray or the dark red (black hood and rear deck stripes if I get the red) and I am SO getting those 3rd generation IROC looking 18" alloys, the 20's on the RS trim package are just a bit too much for me.
That sounds mean. And I agree with you totally on your first sentence, same goes for me.

yeah, despite what I threw quickly on to my sig, I haven't even really thought about a color for the Camaro...

I drive a black SS/SC right now, and while it looks bad-ass in black, (it's also my 2nd black car), black is def the hardest of the colors to maintain... And I'm sorta wanting something other than black for my third car... Not sure yet...

I know with the Solstice Coupe GXP, & Cobalt SS/TC I was planning on getting them in white and then powdercoating the stock rims black. I think white with black rims on a car looks pretty sweet, and you don't see too many like that on the road... (I don't at least)

I'm not sure how I feel about the Camaro in white however, from what spy pics I've seen it but just like the Solstice, I think the Camaro will look good in any color.

I also really like Orange, and would get that with black stripes, but I'm thinking I'm going to end up with more speeding tickets if I opt for a color like that...
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