Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Rick@Livernois
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Members Area > Off-topic Discussions

Off-topic Discussions Discuss any off-topic subjects with other members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-09-2008, 11:17 AM   #1
The_Blur
Moderator, USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Pensacola
Posts: 14,192
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
raising the driving age

It may be inevitable since the leading cause of teen fatality is car-related. Obviously, raising the driving age would outrage the disenfranchised youth, but without legal voting rights, they have no say on these changes. As parents and governors grow more concerned about this issue, the age change becomes more inevitable. Obviously, these idiots never came to the conclusion that people don't magically learn how to drive by 17 years of age, so all they are doing is delaying these deaths by a year. In other words, accidents are caused by a combination of reckless driving and incorrect driving, both of which coincide with the fact that new drivers are inexperienced and want to experiment. If the driving age were 37, then there would be an overwhelming number of people between 37 and 40 that died from accidents, too. Article is by MSNBC.

Discuss.

Last edited by The_Blur; 09-09-2008 at 03:55 PM.
The_Blur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 11:40 AM   #2
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 14 Spark
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 17,671
I think this is a better system than just raising the age..

the Tennessee Graduated drivers license..
Quote:
Drivers under 18 years old are required to go through
graduated steps of driving experience to gain full, unrestricted
Driver License status. The graduated Driver License steps are
designed to incrementally teach young drivers how to drive by
requiring minimum levels of driving experience and a safe
driving history record before allowing teenage drivers to
receive a “full-fledged” Class D driver license. Motor vehicle
crashes are the major cause of death for young people between
the ages of 15 and 20. By requiring more supervised practice,
the State of Tennessee hopes to save lives and prevent tragic
injuries.
There are four steps to becoming a full, unrestricted Driver
License holder:
1. Learner Permit
2. Intermediate Restricted License
3. Intermediate Unrestricted License
4. Regular Driver License.
The above four steps are part of the Graduated Driver License
Program. A license issued under the first three steps will have
“GDL” printed in the bottom left corner. See page 15 for
pictures of graduated licences.
Learner Permit
• You must be 15 years
old and pass the
standard written and
visual exams.
• You must hold a
learner permit for 180
days in order to move to
the Intermediate
Restricted License step.
• You may drive a car only
when accompanied by a
license driver 21 years or older who is riding
in the front seat of the vehicle.
• You may not drive between the hours of 10 P.M. and 6
A.M.
• Driver and passengers must wear a seat belt.
Intermediate License
There are two Intermediate License levels for drivers under 18
years of age. The first level is the Intermediate Restricted
License and the second level is the Intermediate Unrestricted
License.
First Level - Intermediate Restricted License
• You must be sixteen (16) years old and pass the driving
test.
• You must have held a learner permit for 180 days.
• You cannot have tickets for driving offenses that add up to
more than six (6) points on your driving record during the
immediate 180 days preceding your application.
• You must have verification from a parent, legal guardian
or licensed driving instructor stating you have fifty hours
(ten hours at night) of driving experience. Certification of
driving experience must be made on the official form (SF-
1256) provided by the Department of Safety. This form is
available at all DL Stations or may be downloaded from
our web site. This form must be signed by either a parent,
legal guardian or licensed driving instructor.
• Driver and passengers must wear a seat belt.
Second Level - Intermediate Unrestricted License
To move from the Intermediate Restricted to the Unrestricted
License, you must be 17 years old and meet the following
conditions:
• You must have held an Intermediate Restricted License for
one (1) year.
• You cannot have accumulated more than six points on
your driving record.
• You cannot have had a traffic accident that was your fault.
• You cannot have 2 seat belt violations.
• Driver and passengers must wear a seat belt.
• No additional tests are required.
Final Level - Regular Driver License
You may obtain a Class D regular driver license when you are
18 years of age, or when you graduate from high school or
receive a GED, whichever is sooner. The word “Intermediate”
will be removed from your license when you move to the
Regular Driver License. However, the license will still include
the “Under 21” indicators.


Hardships may be issued at age fourteen and will always
expire on the driver’s sixteenth birthday. Hardships
automatically serve as a Learner Permit (PD) once the holder
turns fifteen (15) years of age.
If driver did not have the Hardship License for the minimum
of 180 days by the time the Hardship expires on the sixteenth
birthday, the driver will have to be re-issued the learner permit.
This permit must be carried for the remainder of time to
complete the required 180 days before the issuance of an
Intermediate Restricted is allowed. The Hardship license
cannot be renewed.
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.
Angrybird 12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 11:54 AM   #3
The_Blur
Moderator, USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Pensacola
Posts: 14,192
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
I think this is a better system than just raising the age..

the Tennessee Graduated drivers license..
Missouri has a similar system. It works, I guess, but there's way too much emphasis on parents spending time with new drivers. They usually just sign off on their time instead. Of course, driver's education classes are a joke.

Americans need to learn to drive like Europeans. Are there any Germans who would like to give some feedback on how they learned?
The_Blur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 01:01 PM   #4
bouncertime
Miller High Life
 
bouncertime's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 Silverado and 2007 Cobalt SS
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,647
I agree with Blur, raising the age for a drivers License is not going to help, it will only change the statistics.

The first thing they need to do is bring drivers edjucation classes back to the school system. For some reason kids nowadays are not getting the same training they did when I was in school. There is no easy cure for teenage stupidity while driving, but moving the driving age will only make things worse. Atleast now they have more control over who trains them on how to drive.

This should be a federal law, it should be illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to operate a cell phone while driving a moving vehicle. And illegal for anyone to use a cell phone while driving without a hands free type device. And they need to enforce it, this law went into effect back in July for CA, but I still see people holding their cell phones while driving all the time.

This one is not going to be like by many, but I don't think anyone with less than 2 years of driving experince should be driving a car with power to weight ratio of 14/1 or less. Unless they have been through a professional performance driving course. How many times have you heard of a kid killing themselves or others driving a car that is faster than they can handle.

I am sure others have more they can add.
__________________
Jimmy
bouncertime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 01:03 PM   #5
Kyle2k
LVL 50 Troll Stomper
 
Kyle2k's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 3,250
I started driving at 14 (yes, eerily, we can get them that soon in ND), The only accident I have had was from a deer..and it actually ran into me- smashed its skull right into me drivers side fender and flipped over the hood. So I think it's more of a common sense and responsibility issue (which isn't determined by age) .
__________________
Kyle2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 01:10 PM   #6
bouncertime
Miller High Life
 
bouncertime's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 Silverado and 2007 Cobalt SS
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
I started driving at 14 (yes, eerily, we can get them that soon in ND), The only accident I have had was from a deer..and it actually ran into me- smashed its skull right into me drivers side fender and flipped over the hood. So I think it's more of a common sense and responsibility issue (which isn't determined by age) .
Yes that is very true, which is why this is a difficult subject to find a cure for. I have witnessed many adults who you wonder how they got a drivers license and teenagers who drive better than most adults.
__________________
Jimmy
bouncertime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 02:00 PM   #7
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 14 Spark
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 17,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle2k View Post
I started driving at 14 (yes, eerily, we can get them that soon in ND), The only accident I have had was from a deer..and it actually ran into me- smashed its skull right into me drivers side fender and flipped over the hood. So I think it's more of a common sense and responsibility issue (which isn't determined by age) .
The real problem is Matruity and Experience.

Responsibility (Maturity) helps you to keep from doing things in a car you know you shouldn't. Like doing burnouts in the middle of a crowded freeway. Drag racing because someone revved his engine up at the stoplight next to you etc., and realizing you don't have the experience and are more careful when you drive.

Experience, helps you to not make bad decisions when driving. like when to pull out when a car is coming, how to drive in the rain, at night etc... all which the more you do the better you get at it.

Raising the driving age may help in the Maturity part (I know several immature 50 year olds), but not the experience part. that is why I feel a graduated system is better, give you more experience before you are released to venture out on your own.

Edit:
I forgot a big one, Learning respect.. Respect the rules of the road and the danger that can lurk around every corner. Just because the guy in front of you makes that illegal turn, or runs the redlight, does not mean it is OK for you to do the same.
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.

Last edited by Angrybird 12; 09-09-2008 at 02:11 PM.
Angrybird 12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 02:15 PM   #8
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
The real problem is Matruity and Experience.

Responsibility (Maturity) helps you to keep from doing things in a car you know you shouldn't. Like doing burnouts in the middle of a crowded freeway. Drag racing because someone revved his engine up at the stoplight next to you etc., and realizing you don't have the experience and are more careful when you drive.

Experience, helps you to not make bad decisions when driving. like when to pull out when a car is coming, how to drive in the rain, at night etc... all which the more you do the better you get at it.

Raising the driving age may help in the Maturity part (I know several immature 50 year olds), but not the experience part. that is why I feel a graduated system is better, give you more experience before you are released to venture out on your own.

Edit:
I forgot a big one, Learning respect.. Respect the rules of the road and the danger that can lurk around every corner. Just because the guy in front of you makes that illegal turn, or runs the redlight, does not mean it is OK for you to do the same.
A BIG
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 02:36 PM   #9
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
It should be MUCH HARDER to aquire a license...but the age should not be raised -- it won't do anything. Like Blur said -- you don't suddenly gain the ability to drive safe at any age. And like Skyman said: It takes 1)training/experience, 2)maturity, and 3)common sense. None of which are directly, and undoubtedly linked to age.

1) Experience: raising the age would delay the time it takes to get experience behind the wheel; it's just going to take that much longer to get experience if you have to wait.......

2) Maturity: admittidly, it is generally true that the older you get, the more mature you get...but there are enough teenagers who ARE mature enough to drive that they end up being 'punished' under this generalization.

3) Common-Sense: If you don't have it, it's going to be har to get it...age has nothing to do with this beyond the mid-teen years.

If you raise the age...it's just going to raise the age of those people who are constantly dying in stupid car crashes. The only REAL way to eliminate the problem is to properly train people to drive...not the scare-tactics-1970's-videos that they shove down your throat in these bogus "courses"...actually TEACH people how to drive. Make it mandatory, make it all-conclusive, and make the test harder to pass (both road and paper).

This will weed out anybody not qualified to drive. From 16 to 90+. If you're a good driver, then there's nothing to worry or get upset about: you'll pass. But if you fit the stereo typical 16 year old, or even a middle-aged person who takes stupid risks and endangers others on the road...you won't pass. Good.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 02:47 PM   #10
CamaroSpike23
Mr. Nitpicky
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,861
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
what if it were raised to 18 for the license, but permits and drivers ed started at 16?

or do like germany where you have to go thru a crap ton to get your license, and pay a donkey buttload
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 03:12 PM   #11
The_Blur
Moderator, USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Pensacola
Posts: 14,192
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncertime View Post
I agree with Blur, raising the age for a drivers License is not going to help, it will only change the statistics.

The first thing they need to do is bring drivers edjucation classes back to the school system. For some reason kids nowadays are not getting the same training they did when I was in school. There is no easy cure for teenage stupidity while driving, but moving the driving age will only make things worse. Atleast now they have more control over who trains them on how to drive.

This should be a federal law, it should be illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to operate a cell phone while driving a moving vehicle. And illegal for anyone to use a cell phone while driving without a hands free type device. And they need to enforce it, this law went into effect back in July for CA, but I still see people holding their cell phones while driving all the time.

This one is not going to be like by many, but I don't think anyone with less than 2 years of driving experince should be driving a car with power to weight ratio of 14/1 or less. Unless they have been through a professional performance driving course. How many times have you heard of a kid killing themselves or others driving a car that is faster than they can handle.

I am sure others have more they can add.
It's not always the power that's so dangerous. Sometimes its the likelihood that it will roll or that the car is underpowered and the driver feels the need to show off. It's dangerous for someone to question the ego of a Civic Si driver because that 17-year-old will go nuts and try to weave through traffic. While examples like Hogan's son exist where a ridiculously fast Supra with a drunk driver decides to Hollywood at night (3 independent cases of stupid: drinking, showing off or Hollywooding, driving fast at night), there are plenty of middle class high school students that are driving hand-me-downs with equal or greater threats to other drivers.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncertime View Post
Yes that is very true, which is why this is a difficult subject to find a cure for. I have witnessed many adults who you wonder how they got a drivers license and teenagers who drive better than most adults.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
The real problem is Matruity and Experience.

Responsibility (Maturity) helps you to keep from doing things in a car you know you shouldn't. Like doing burnouts in the middle of a crowded freeway. Drag racing because someone revved his engine up at the stoplight next to you etc., and realizing you don't have the experience and are more careful when you drive.

Experience, helps you to not make bad decisions when driving. like when to pull out when a car is coming, how to drive in the rain, at night etc... all which the more you do the better you get at it.

Raising the driving age may help in the Maturity part (I know several immature 50 year olds), but not the experience part. that is why I feel a graduated system is better, give you more experience before you are released to venture out on your own.

Edit:
I forgot a big one, Learning respect.. Respect the rules of the road and the danger that can lurk around every corner. Just because the guy in front of you makes that illegal turn, or runs the redlight, does not mean it is OK for you to do the same.
Respect is a very important one. It is important to respect other drivers as well as the law. Even if sometimes the enforcers of the law—the same guys that wrote you that parking ticket for letting your bumper 3 inches too close to the intersection—are sometimes tools, it is important for you to respect that the law is a disembodied authority that keeps people safe. The law, at the same time, is not infallible. If you do not like a local traffic law, lobby your city hall to change it for everyone. It isn't safe to just act like the law is the way you want it to be, and so often it is that wrongful behavior that leads to accidents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
It should be MUCH HARDER to aquire a license...but the age should not be raised -- it won't do anything. Like Blur said -- you don't suddenly gain the ability to drive safe at any age. And like Skyman said: It takes 1)training/experience, 2)maturity, and 3)common sense. None of which are directly, and undoubtedly linked to age.

1) Experience: raising the age would delay the time it takes to get experience behind the wheel; it's just going to take that much longer to get experience if you have to wait.......

2) Maturity: admittidly, it is generally true that the older you get, the more mature you get...but there are enough teenagers who ARE mature enough to drive that they end up being 'punished' under this generalization.

3) Common-Sense: If you don't have it, it's going to be har to get it...age has nothing to do with this beyond the mid-teen years.

If you raise the age...it's just going to raise the age of those people who are constantly dying in stupid car crashes. The only REAL way to eliminate the problem is to properly train people to drive...not the scare-tactics-1970's-videos that they shove down your throat in these bogus "courses"...actually TEACH people how to drive. Make it mandatory, make it all-conclusive, and make the test harder to pass (both road and paper).

This will weed out anybody not qualified to drive. From 16 to 90+. If you're a good driver, then there's nothing to worry or get upset about: you'll pass. But if you fit the stereo typical 16 year old, or even a middle-aged person who takes stupid risks and endangers others on the road...you won't pass. Good.
Common sense is not as common as its name implies.

*I am playing the devil's advocate. For future reference, I will note this over and over again. Sometimes I will agree with you even though I am posting contrary material.
The_Blur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 03:29 PM   #12
shank0668


 
shank0668's Avatar
 
Drives: 1998 Sahara
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,547
Send a message via AIM to shank0668
f u all not the forum members. how bout the good drivers
shank0668 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 05:20 PM   #13
ucla1ove3

 
ucla1ove3's Avatar
 
Drives: soon to be 2010 CAMARO :]
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 1,287
dude shank you realize you just proved their point. you said "f u" to a bunch of guys older than you which:
1.) showed you have no respect.
2.)proved you have no maturity
and 3.) showed exactly why this thread exists

I am sixteen and am a very good driver(not trying to sound cocky) and I actually don't trust myself with driving. much less my friends and fellow classmates. I agree that the driving age should be highered or somewhat changed in the way to get your license but we do have to remember that not all driving accidents for teens are because of bad driving. A lot are, like others said, because of "showboating" or "hollywooding". a lot of ppl like to mess around with their driving because they are with their friends and wanna have a good time and feel they are invincible and cant get in a serious wreck no matter what. that's the thought that screws the majority of high school students over. the other one is the drinking. A majority of high schoolers that go to the football games go to have fun, which involves drinking. They get semi- drunk or buzzed and then go and drive their friends home while the music is blaring and they are all yelling and happy cause they are having a good time and then bammm they get into a wreck. so that's the other big problem that needs to be regulated in some how. such as like they do at NFL games where you can't bring your own opened bottles into the stadium and such.
ucla1ove3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 07:15 PM   #14
Kyle2k
LVL 50 Troll Stomper
 
Kyle2k's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 3,250
There are a lot of noobs with an attitude lately. Let the mods do their job.
__________________
Kyle2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 07:30 PM   #15
shank0668


 
shank0668's Avatar
 
Drives: 1998 Sahara
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,547
Send a message via AIM to shank0668
Quote:
Originally Posted by shank0668 View Post
f u all not the forum members. how bout the good drivers
i didnt tell anyone here f u. i like everyone here. except fbodfather lol joking we all are cool [excluding me]
shank0668 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 07:44 PM   #16
drivingincamaro


 
drivingincamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 civic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago Illinois
Posts: 5,807
heavy sigh: :(
__________________
drivingincamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 10:39 PM   #17
diddiyo


 
Drives: .
Join Date: May 2008
Location: .
Posts: 3,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
Are there any Germans who would like to give some feedback on how they learned?


you have to go to a real school for several weeks. twice a week you sit in a classroom with a bunch of other people and you work together with an instructor on a book and video-samples of different traffic-situations. they even teach you how to read the correct tire pressure on a tire and stuff. then after you've passed a test you get to the actual driving-part. you have to spend a certain amount of hours (two hours a day for example) with your instructor driving in the city, on the autobahn and at nighttime before you can take the driving-test. the instructor gets to decide when you are ready to take the test, so some people might have to take more practice-hours than others.

i don't remember exactly how much my license was, but i think it was about 1500eur (about $2100) right after i turned 18 in 2002.

*edit*
btw, In germany, if you fail the first test (before you get to actually learn how to drive) three times you have to take what we call the "idiot's test", officially called a Medical Psychological Assessment

Last edited by diddiyo; 09-09-2008 at 11:00 PM.
diddiyo is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GM Video of Camaro Convertable Driving rchaskin Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 4 09-25-2009 07:40 AM
Lower the Drinking age? Mr. Wyndham Off-topic Discussions 61 08-30-2008 03:00 AM
Why we love driving TheMadHatter99 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 42 08-25-2008 12:05 AM
Cool Video of Camaro driving (with sound) Mr. Wyndham Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 4 07-04-2007 12:31 PM
Videos from Z28.com driving concept TAG UR IT Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 1 11-14-2006 10:48 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.