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Old 02-25-2010, 04:47 AM   #1
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Question Old Muscle Cars vs. New Muscle Cars

Whenever someone's talking about muscle cars, everyone thinks about the ones from the 60's and 70's. I don't have anything against that. I think those were the "real" muscle cars too.
I wanna know what the people with those older 10 second muscle cars actually think of the people with the newer muscle cars. I know I'm gonna be tons of mods to my 2010 SS in the near future. Would you say we belong in the same group? What is your mind set?
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:08 AM   #2
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Back in the old days, the only big difference I see is the attitude of the owners. Today you have "Fanboys" back then it was more just "Car Guys" , it didn't matter what type of car you drove as long as it looked cool and was fast.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:14 AM   #3
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Back in the old days, the only big difference I see is the attitude of the owners. Today you have "Fanboys" back then it was more just "Car Guys" , it didn't matter what type of car you drove as long as it looked cool and was fast.
Well I gotta say I used to be one of those "fanboys" but then I realized a while ago what you said is true. It shouldn't matter whether it's a Ford, or a Chevy, or even an import as long as it's fast and looks cool.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:15 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by SamSS View Post
Whenever someone's talking about muscle cars, everyone thinks about the ones from the 60's and 70's. I don't have anything against that. I think those were the "real" muscle cars too.
I wanna know what the people with those older 10 second muscle cars actually think of the people with the newer muscle cars. I know I'm gonna be tons of mods to my 2010 SS in the near future. Would you say we belong in the same group? What is your mind set?
Muscle cars were built to be affordable. Power was at the center of muscle cars back in the 60's and 70's. Performance, handling, suspension, all was an afterthought at that time. Today, muscle cars are all about finesse, performance, and refinement. My gripe with today's cars is the sheer amount of computer controlled parts. I find it annoying that all these sensors and everything can trip at a moment's notice for doing virtually nothing and they are a pain in the ass to reset. Examples:

- I think the muscle cars of yesteryear were simple, easy to upgrade, even for casual drivers/owners. Didn't have to worry about calibrations, and all these transmission sensors in auto transmissions like you do in modern cars. This was probably the sole reason I will never own an automatic transmission anymore. One sensor trip and it's right to AAMCO for a $2000.00 job just to lift the transmission out to get to the bad sensor so it would STOP tripping the "Check Engine" light. Done with that crap.

- I hate the idea of trying to mod my vehicle and if you don't "tune" things exactly, the car's computer gets all flustered and puts out all this crap about error reports, etc. If I owned a '68 Camaro, I'd never have to worry about problems replacing tires or adding a supercharger. All these car companies want to reaffirm that they have elements of control on you by creating "sensitive" computers to error out so that you are either dissuaded from modding your car or you have to pay THEM to do it. Unless you are a gearhead, an average car guy like me would find all of this nonsense a waste of time and money.

Give me an old muscle car to mod, but unfortunately if you want refinement, power and finesse of modern muscle cars, you'll have to deal with a lot of crap. At least I've experienced this.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:27 AM   #5
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Oh man, I agree with everything you said DkknightX. If I only could get my hands on one of those old muscle cars...
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by DkknightX View Post
Muscle cars were built to be affordable. Power was at the center of muscle cars back in the 60's and 70's. Performance, handling, suspension, all was an afterthought at that time. Today, muscle cars are all about finesse, performance, and refinement. My gripe with today's cars is the sheer amount of computer controlled parts. I find it annoying that all these sensors and everything can trip at a moment's notice for doing virtually nothing and they are a pain in the ass to reset. Examples:

- I think the muscle cars of yesteryear were simple, easy to upgrade, even for casual drivers/owners. Didn't have to worry about calibrations, and all these transmission sensors in auto transmissions like you do in modern cars. This was probably the sole reason I will never own an automatic transmission anymore. One sensor trip and it's right to AAMCO for a $2000.00 job just to lift the transmission out to get to the bad sensor so it would STOP tripping the "Check Engine" light. Done with that crap.

- I hate the idea of trying to mod my vehicle and if you don't "tune" things exactly, the car's computer gets all flustered and puts out all this crap about error reports, etc. If I owned a '68 Camaro, I'd never have to worry about problems replacing tires or adding a supercharger. All these car companies want to reaffirm that they have elements of control on you by creating "sensitive" computers to error out so that you are either dissuaded from modding your car or you have to pay THEM to do it. Unless you are a gearhead, an average car guy like me would find all of this nonsense a waste of time and money.

Give me an old muscle car to mod, but unfortunately if you want refinement, power and finesse of modern muscle cars, you'll have to deal with a lot of crap. At least I've experienced this.

Times change, old guys back in the 60's and 70's use to say the same thing about the cars of their time period. They hated the new fangled stuff they were seeing. As technology changes, so do the products it's used in. Remember back in the 60's there weren't any electronics, they didn't start coming into play until the mid to late 70's ...
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:19 AM   #7
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I remember my cousin was given a 68 Mustang when he was out of high school (his step dad built it for him). It was a fun car, and seemed pretty fast off the line. However, there wasn't much else to it (other than the $3,000 sterio my cousin put in it). It was a really fun car, but I always liked getting in my full size Ford Bronco Eddie Bauer Eddition at the end of the day because it was more comfortable.

I do however, look forward to driving my very first muscle car when it arrives. Sure it's the modern version, but is there really anything wrong with heated leather seats?
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by SlingShot View Post
Back in the old days, the only big difference I see is the attitude of the owners. Today you have "Fanboys" back then it was more just "Car Guys" , it didn't matter what type of car you drove as long as it looked cool and was fast.
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Times change, old guys back in the 60's and 70's use to say the same thing about the cars of their time period. They hated the new fangled stuff they were seeing. As technology changes, so do the products it's used in. Remember back in the 60's there weren't any electronics, they didn't start coming into play until the mid to late 70's ...
SlingShot, you "hit the nail on the head" I feel the same way. the technology we have now is why we have a little v6, out of the box making 304 hp, "Back in the Day" if you had a little v6, it was gramma's grocery getter, and small blocks didn't make 426 hp from the factory either. Times have changed, and for teh better too. but we old timers do pine for "the good old days".
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:56 AM   #9
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I have a 71RS, 88 IROC with a 502BB and my 2010 Camaro, I love them all.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:08 AM   #10
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i sold my 72' Chevelle project so my wife could have this Camaro. i love the car too, don't get me wrong.......but i'd rather have my Chevelle.

as far as the folks who are buying these Camaros.........even in the forums you can tell who the gearheads vs. fanboys are. to each there own, but i find it repulsive (my opinion) to put 24" wheels on it. guess i'm in it because of the 67', 73, 80, and 84 Camaro's i've had........Camaro = performance muscle.........not a "unique whip".

one thing i will say, is that an LS3 driveline in a Chevelle might be a future project down the road!
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:02 AM   #11
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OH,THE OLD DAYS.I REMEMBER THEM WELL.(boy am i going to tell my age).I WILL TELL YOU ,THE CARS OF TODAY WILL RUN CIRCLES AROUND THE MUSCLE CARS OF THE 50s,60s,70s AND 80S.YOU CAN TAKE A BONE STOCK 2010 V6 CAMARO AND OUT RUN ABOUT ANY OF THE OLD CARS.REMEMBER BACK THEN,IF YOU HAD A 14 SECOND CAR,YOU HAD A BAD MACHINE.A CAR NOW,WITH LESS CUBIC INCHES AND LESS HORSE POWER WILL BE FASTER THAN ONE OF THE OLD BIG BLOCKS.(yes it's true.)A LOT OF YOU OUT THERE COMLAIN ABOUT YOUR ON BOARD COMPUTERS HAVING TO RE-TUNE THEM,BUT THEY ARE THE REASON THE CARS RUN AS GOOD AS THEY DO.IN 1957 CHEVY CAME OUT WITH THE FUEL INJECTED ENGINE.WE ALL WENT NUTS.IT WOULD RUN,BUT WITH A SEASON OR TEMPERATURE CHANGE THE FUEL INJECTION WOULD NOT WORK,.EVERYONE WAS TAKING THEM OFF AND REPLACING THEM WITH A 4 BARREL.WITH THE INVENT OF THE COMPUTER WITH ALL THE SENSORS,EVERY THING HAS CHANGED.I COULD GO ON AND ON,BUT I WILL STOP HERE.TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.THE CARS OF TODAY ARE MUCH BETTER THAN THE OLD MUSCLE CARS.THE CARS OF TOMORROW WILL BE MUCH BETTER AND FASTER THAN THE CARS OF TODAY.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:11 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by SlingShot View Post
Back in the old days, the only big difference I see is the attitude of the owners. Today you have "Fanboys" back then it was more just "Car Guys" , it didn't matter what type of car you drove as long as it looked cool and was fast.


Exactly, and thats not just Camaro owners. I see the "fanboy" attitude on the Mustang, and Challenger forums also. I think for the most part, a majority of us appreciate any muscle car no matter what the brand.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:43 AM   #13
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Check out Jay Leno's web site. (jay Leno Garage). He talkes about old muscle vs new all the time when compairing his cars with the new ones. He has done a review of the new Camaro as well.
It's my second favorite site. www.jaylenosgarage.com
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:56 AM   #14
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Well I gotta say I used to be one of those "fanboys" but then I realized a while ago what you said is true. It shouldn't matter whether it's a Ford, or a Chevy, or even an import as long as it's fast and looks cool.
Don't start with the crazy talk!!!!
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:03 AM   #15
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I've never liked the term fanboy when describing a Chevy enthusiast. I think the Ford/Chevy/Dodge rivalry has been out there for many years both for those of us who worked and built up our own cars (Mine was a 73 Dodge Charger SE with a 440 magnum)...and also those of us that have followed NASCAR over the years. It's a somewhat friendly rivalry...with, and this is hard to say, some respect for the other vehicles. That doesn't stop the ribbing of Fords sucky quality and inherent cheapness from Chevy enthusiasts like myself. And, I'm glad for the rebirth of that rivalry. I'm glad Ford makes Mustangs, because without them we'd have nothing to beat!

As far as the OP's original question...For me there is a large difference in the amount I am going to tinker with the car. I built up my Charger replacing the 383. It also required constant maintenance.

My Camaro has been trouble free and already came fast. The Charger needed a bit of work to get and keep running well. Though the Camaro is a muscle car, it also has the look and feel of a racecar compared to most of the older muscle cars.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:09 AM   #16
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I am one of the old guys here. Yeah the cars were cool back in the day. I loved Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Plymouths Olds, Buicks, even AMC's. But boy were they ever tempermental. When you look at the overall perfomance numbers from 'back in the day", and compare them to what these cars today are cpable of, its not really a contest.

Nostalgia is wonderful,. I love the old cars, no doubt about it. But, when I go out and fire up Rosie, knowing he has 426 horsepower, is fast enough for me, and I can still get over 25 mpg without dealing with the issues of cars from the old days, I love it.

Been there done that, not a fan boy here. Car guy to the max.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:15 AM   #17
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As much as I enjoyed my C6 Corvette, or my Trailblazer SS, or even my new Camaro 1SS ... there is NOTHING like an old muscle-car!

I'm 41 and got my license in 1984 ... so I was unfortunately unable to partake in the "Golden Era" of the American muscle-car ... but I have owned/restored/modifed over 100 cars since I was 15 and there is no other feeling in the world.

Muscle-cars are visceral .... the cackle of the exhaust, the roar of the exhaust, the screaming of the tires ... they are an assault on the senses. They were never intended to be "comfortable", they were made to perform ... and usually only in a straight line. But that's OK ... because they do it SO freekin well! Those of you that have one or have had one know what I mean .... Are they practical? Hell no! But when you light off 500HP thru 3" exhaust ... screw practical!

Modern muscle is not better or worse in my opinion ... just different. They are made to be all-around performers ... quick in a straight line, but also sharp thru the curves and easy to maneuver. They can be your daily driver, but still get the blood pumping with a flick of the right foot. They do many things well thru the wonders of modern technology ... and all can benefit from that.

My only complaints are that 1)they tend to make us (or me at least) complacent behind the wheel ... half the time I don't even know how fast I'm going because I can't FEEL the speed ... NEVER happen in an old muscle-car. And 2) the auto-makers have taken the car-guy out of the picture when it comes to modifications/repairs. Sure, simple bolt-ons are one thing, but unless you have a degree in mechanical engineering and $25K in computer diagnostic equipment in the garage, fugedaboudit!

One more thing while I'm on my soap-box ... I have a real problem with the "Fast and Furious" mentality when it comes drag/street racing being portrayed in movies or TV. These Hollywood wanna-bee's need to stop showing punk-ass rich kids in new Eclipses and Civics with big wheels and neon lites and start showing it like it REALLY is/was ... with a box Nova that looks like it just rolled out of my old wrecking yard on open exhaust yanking the front wheels a foot in the air and clicking off a 10-sec pass. I may be a little "Old Skool" in my mentality, but sorry import guys, the exhaust note comin out of your Civic just doesn't do it for me ...
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:29 AM   #18
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. . .. those older 10 second muscle cars . . .
I think those "10 second cars" were a lot fewer and farther between than legend has it.

Reality is the new V6 will beat most of the cars from back in the day in the 1/4 mile, and handle a lot better, and be a lot more comfortable, and drink about 1/4 the gas doing it.

I owned a '70 Olds 442, and that thing was a beast; but it was in rough shape when I owned it so probably not a good comparison. I couldn't afford a real "nice" muscle car like the old Camaros because I was just a little too young and they were a little too expensive by the time I got my license.

If I was to choose right now between rebuilding that old 442, or buying one for $100K versus buying a brand new Camaro, I'd go for the new Camaro for sure. And I'm pretty sure the new V6 Camaro would be quicker than the old 442, unless the 442 was top-of-the line W30 and in perfect running shape with a few mods.

Last edited by Bert; 02-25-2010 at 09:32 AM. Reason: more
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by DkknightX View Post
Muscle cars were built to be affordable. Power was at the center of muscle cars back in the 60's and 70's. Performance, handling, suspension, all was an afterthought at that time. Today, muscle cars are all about finesse, performance, and refinement. My gripe with today's cars is the sheer amount of computer controlled parts. I find it annoying that all these sensors and everything can trip at a moment's notice for doing virtually nothing and they are a pain in the ass to reset. Examples:

- I think the muscle cars of yesteryear were simple, easy to upgrade, even for casual drivers/owners. Didn't have to worry about calibrations, and all these transmission sensors in auto transmissions like you do in modern cars. This was probably the sole reason I will never own an automatic transmission anymore. One sensor trip and it's right to AAMCO for a $2000.00 job just to lift the transmission out to get to the bad sensor so it would STOP tripping the "Check Engine" light. Done with that crap.

- I hate the idea of trying to mod my vehicle and if you don't "tune" things exactly, the car's computer gets all flustered and puts out all this crap about error reports, etc. If I owned a '68 Camaro, I'd never have to worry about problems replacing tires or adding a supercharger. All these car companies want to reaffirm that they have elements of control on you by creating "sensitive" computers to error out so that you are either dissuaded from modding your car or you have to pay THEM to do it. Unless you are a gearhead, an average car guy like me would find all of this nonsense a waste of time and money.

Give me an old muscle car to mod, but unfortunately if you want refinement, power and finesse of modern muscle cars, you'll have to deal with a lot of crap. At least I've experienced this.
I agree A LOT with just about all of this. My first car (at 15) was a 1967 Mustang and while it was 9 seconds, it was damn fast with it's 390 we rebuild and put in there.

I am a computer nerd (that's what I came to school for, and that's what my job is going to be) but I LOATHE that just about everything is controlled by computers. It was much more fun working on just a raw engine where spark, air, and fuel were all you had to worry about. Now you have to worry about all the sensors, programming, and crap. I'd love to spend hours upon hours of just tinkering with the engine, but you just can't now days.

I will give a +1 to the attitude. Whenever I would go to shows, drive-ins, get togethers, etc. it was all fun with everyone sitting around BS'ing about those times, having a laugh and whatnot. Now it seems like most 'enthusiasts' are divided by the models. See the Camaro vs GTO thread for proof.

I like to go cruising a lot in Lubbock, and that 'art' seems to be lost as well. I can't make a loop without some random tween pulling beside me and lurching every few seconds for the next however many miles. I'm all for hot rodding, but seems hardly anyone knows how to cruise and appreciate it. More often than not when I do get someone cruising with me I'll pull in to chat and they'll start spouting nonsense "man what you got, i got a grand on me lets race, i'll wreck your sh!t, blah blah"... WTF!? I was more interested if you know where we can get non-ethanol 91 octane gas. I knew what you had when you pulled beside me I'm not interested in racing.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:32 AM   #20
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Yeah, I'm an old school hot rodder, still have a 57 Chevy Belair, 400hp+. My SS is still on order so any comments on the new muscle is from an "observer" soon to be owner prespective.
The 57 handles like a brick, drum brakes so after about two hard stops you better have plenty of distance. I do recognize whats under the hood and for the most part can do my own work in my backyard/garage.
Hard to out run the technology they are putting in the new cars. Anyway you measure it HP, torque, quarter mile, stopping distance, and for an old man something gaining in importance, creature comfort.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:35 AM   #21
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I have driven and worked on both new and old muscle cars, IMO the new Camaro blows the old out of the water in ALL categories.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:42 AM   #22
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I still have my "old school" Muscle (since 1983) and I have "New muscle". I love both but the old one is much easier to work on and "tune" by myself. Both cars are different animals, the 70 Z-28 is just bad ass out of the shoot and you really have to "drive" her with the torque she puts out and the high 11 second runs in the quarter. The new SS is a different anamial as she does handle better out of the shoot and has more top speed but do you really need to go over 150 MPH on a back road? Done it once and still had 5th and 6th gear, I don't need them, that was way too fast for the road but I will say it is nice to know that she will go that much faster than the "older" muscle car. I love both and am just beginning to "explore" the aftermarket add ons for the new muscle. Just my two cents.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:45 AM   #23
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I decided when I got my 72 Nova I was going to keep it forever, well forever is a long time. I have owned it for 38 years now. It now has a 383 stroker, about 450 HP give or take 50. 12 bolt with 3:73 gears, with automatic trans.
What I like:
When you start it up the ground rumbles, do not pass your self going down the road. Answering all the questions, "I'm sure you had one just like it" the magic word is HAD. Looking down at the mechanical gages, 8 track in dash mind you, no tacky add on here. Having manual disc brakes, ease of working on.
What I dislike: Gas mileage or lack of 5-8 mpg. handling or what handling. Cop caller,
No air, every kid trying to prove his 4 cylinder can out run you.
Will I sell it, no. Just a fun thing to own. But the Camaro just about does it all.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:46 AM   #24
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I'm sorry if I've given everybody the wrong impression of my perspective on this because I am 33 years of age, but know many guys around my age that rebuilt wrecked Impalas and Novas from the 60's. I've seen them work and gained insight by talking to them/helping them. If you want to take what I say with a grain of salt, then please do, but though I wasn't around in the muscle car era, I still have a great grasp on what it was about. Just didn't want to mislead people. Thanks folks!
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:54 AM   #25
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I had a customer come in last summer with a 73 Mustang almost identical to my first Mustang. After driving it, I had no desire to go back to the 73. Noise, vibration, harshness, yep it's in there. I'll take new cars anyday.
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