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Old 02-27-2010, 02:46 PM   #1
cdigiovanni
 
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subs facing out or subs face in (to the front of the car)

question about placing a box with 2 10in Ultra Audio's DVC in the car with the sub face -facing the interior or the car or facing the tail lights .... anyone with a good solid information. which performs better, bass/ loudness/ etc
running 1500 watt RMS in the car 6in seperates in the doors/ 6in seperates in the rear deck.
center dash will be powered via head unit for phone/onstar etc.
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:52 PM   #2
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From an experience standpoint, you probably won't hear the difference. FRom the competition side of things, facing the rear is usually louder on the mic. it tends to allow the waves to develop and peak.

Personal preference, rear facing.
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Old 02-27-2010, 11:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrray13 View Post
From an experience standpoint, you probably won't hear the difference. FRom the competition side of things, facing the rear is usually louder on the mic. it tends to allow the waves to develop and peak.

Personal preference, rear facing.
This statement is absolutely correct....the longer the "wavelength" travels, the better chance it has to get "louder."

We did several enclosures for high end customers and most all of them used the rear panel of the vehicle as a "reflector" for the soundwave.

Good luck!,
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Karma View Post
This statement is absolutely correct....the longer the "wavelength" travels, the better chance it has to get "louder."

We did several enclosures for high end customers and most all of them used the rear panel of the vehicle as a "reflector" for the soundwave.

Good luck!,
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not only that... but in competitions you are measuring sound pressure. Th wave moving forward from a speaker is going to have great pressure than the 180* wave simply for the fact that the face of the speaker is moving the air. If the speaker is facing away from the mic, you wont have that added compression forcing air towards the mic.

When you see SUVs with a system, they have the speakers facing the rear too and it makes the sound appear louder and you feel it more. In that sense, the speakers push the air towards the back of the SUV, which forces the air up and back towards the front along the roof. Which makes your head feel it more.

If you had it facing towards the seat, it cant move that air and you lose that affect.

Not to mention, the face of the speaker looks better than the back of the box does.


If you want to do competition though... put each speaker in the back of your trunk (behind the tail lights) and have them facing each other. Then when you put the mic in there it has them blasting from each side.. not just one
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:24 PM   #5
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not only that... but in competitions you are measuring sound pressure. Th wave moving forward from a speaker is going to have great pressure than the 180* wave simply for the fact that the face of the speaker is moving the air. If the speaker is facing away from the mic, you wont have that added compression forcing air towards the mic.

When you see SUVs with a system, they have the speakers facing the rear too and it makes the sound appear louder and you feel it more. In that sense, the speakers push the air towards the back of the SUV, which forces the air up and back towards the front along the roof. Which makes your head feel it more.

If you had it facing towards the seat, it cant move that air and you lose that affect.

Not to mention, the face of the speaker looks better than the back of the box does.


If you want to do competition though... put each speaker in the back of your trunk (behind the tail lights) and have them facing each other. Then when you put the mic in there it has them blasting from each side.. not just one

Huh? The ideal is to let the wavelength develop. Low frequency sounds are huges waves, they take a while to develop, which is why SUVs tend to be louder then cars, they are longer. You want the wavelength to peak where the mic is at, usually the windshield or kickpanel. Some to reality, or headrest, some do driveby. Each mic location can require a different box, tuning and/or box placement to reach peak numbers. No serious competitor I know doesn't know what resonant frequency his/her vehicle peaks at, where the box needs to be and what tuning it takes to get it to peak there. Then let's not get into legal or outlaw. That changes things all over again.

I don't know of any serious organization that measures in the trunk, unless they are doing port wars. Even then, the globe goes in the port.
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:25 PM   #6
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not looking for SLP set up... done that already, looking for more sound quality, and heavy bass

had a 08 CTS with 1500w rms hitting 161.4db all day been there done that... sound quality is my this car is going!
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Old 03-01-2010, 05:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by cdigiovanni View Post
not looking for SLP set up... done that already, looking for more sound quality, and heavy bass

had a 08 CTS with 1500w rms hitting 161.4db all day been there done that... sound quality is my this car is going!
161.4 ALL DAY sounds like bull.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:27 PM   #8
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161.4 on 1500wrms???? Ummmm, no??? Seriously, no. Unless it was a tweaked out AudioControl mic, in the port...maybe.


Sorry, but like jordan 572 above, I call BS.
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Old 03-02-2010, 11:43 AM   #9
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161.4 is kinda loud, I couldnt get that out of my Atomic 18 and four Orion HCCAs powering it.. but anyhow, to add my humble opinion, the answer depends on the type of box, correct box, etc. I may do a port through on mine, but will have to take the rear window out to do it correctly, maybe i will, anyhow, in my case, you may not see the speakers at all, I dont know yet (they may be inside the box)... but i did noticed you said "SLP" maybe your talking about something else, or you type as fast as i do...lol

but in agreement with others, rear facing (although you should know the answer, with the 161)
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:02 PM   #10
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doing a system for SPL... is easier then sound quality, completely different animals...
fellas' trust me

talk to Lambro at Sound Station in SINY if you need details on how one 18in ULTRA Audio and 6 speakers inside can hit 161.4db
ARC audio amps are a beast!
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Old 03-04-2010, 05:17 PM   #11
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I've built several spl only setups, and some of these along side world record holders and top competitors. 160db legal, on a TermLab is hard to achieve, damn near impossible for a daily setup, and all of them have way over 1500wrms. Now, put in an AudioControl mic, turn on your heat, and place the mic in the kick with the door open, sure you might see a 161, especially if you tweak the k-factor.

In other words, in the real world, it didn't happen. Period. Say what you want about the shop, but on a real mic, legal, it didn't won't happen.

ARC Audio makes some quality stuff, of that there is no doubt. Very little of it finds it's way into the hands of the loudest people on the planet though. Now, in the hands of SQ fiends, ARC is in it's happy place.

And SPL is only easy up to 150db or so. After that, it gets expotenitally (<--spl?)harder. Since, in theory, it'll take twice the power, or displacment to achieve a 3db gain, or a theorictial doubling of sound, and 160db is 30 times louder then 150db, you do the math. 1500 wrms just isn't going to get it. Not in car. Not on a TermLab. Not in this lifetime.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdigiovanni View Post
doing a system for SPL... is easier then sound quality, completely different animals...
fellas' trust me

talk to Lambro at Sound Station in SINY if you need details on how one 18in ULTRA Audio and 6 speakers inside can hit 161.4db
ARC audio amps are a beast!
sorry but no.
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:07 AM   #13
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sorry to dig up an old thread but this was the only one I could find that was dealing with front firing or rear firing subs. So I figured it be best to ask here then start a new one.

I'm currently waiting on the subthump FARK from Steve. Then I'll be ordering a box from him but I'm still up in the air regarding front firing or rear firing box. I like to have a nice deep hitting bass, but of course I want it clean and not a lot of excess rattle. Of course I will need to get sound dampener for that. I've seen in another thread 50 sq feet can cover the entire trunk, back deck and doors. Has anyone been able to confirm this?

I plan on running 2 12" Rockford Fosgate P3 subs with a T1500-1BDCP amp and the system to running on a 4 ohm load.

I also want to take out the BA system and put in Rockford Fosgate components (T1652) and 6"x9"s (T1692) running off a Rockford Fosgate T600-4 amp.

The door speaker amp will run about 400W RMS and the sub amp will run about 1000W RMS. How well do the 150 amp SS alternators hold up when bass hits running approx 1400W of power?

Another question I have is, has anyone used speaker baffles with their camaros? I know they were recommended to be used in the door speakers in the Colorado I used to drive.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:20 AM   #14
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The alternators hold up pretty well, at least it has for us so far. One Camaro we built is running over 10k watts with 4 batteries and the alternator is still going. It takes a little while to charge but it hasnt crapped out yet. With the wattage you'll be running you should be in good shape. You might want to upgrade your battery or maybe even add in a second smaller battery. And since those subs are 600w rms, I would run that amp at 2 ohm and get 1500w out of it and turn the amp down, just so that way you get full play out of your subs. For the doors, when you put your components in put dampener on the inside of the outer door shell and on the inner panel around where your speakers will bolt in.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:37 AM   #15
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I have 2 audio Que hdc3 10s and a sound digital 5000.1 it is putting out around 6000 watts to the subs and I'm fine ... but then again I have a 270 amp alt and 2 xs power 3100 batteries... overkill never hurts when it comes to giving your system the right amount of juice

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Old 12-09-2011, 01:03 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cdigiovanni View Post
not looking for SLP set up... done that already, looking for more sound quality, and heavy bass

had a 08 CTS with 1500w rms hitting 161.4db all day been there done that... sound quality is my this car is going!
IMPOSIBLE!!!!!
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:12 AM   #17
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IMPOSIBLE!!!!!
Yeah, i'd have to see that one. Our tahoe with 5 18's and 25k watts is only hitting low to mid 160's. I did see a guy hit 155 with 2 12's and 4k watts at SBN last year.
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:22 PM   #18
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So is the verdict front facing or rear facing? Looking for this also, I have mine front facing and think it should be louder than it is. I'll have it rear facing and check out the diffrence.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:16 AM   #19
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Corner loading is where it's at. If you can't fab or do that, then go rear facing.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:05 PM   #20
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We build almost all of our boxes for Camaros front facing now but we port them through the back deck and wall off the space behind the seats. If youre just gonna do a basic box front facing I dont believe it is gonna sound as good as rear facing. Just make sure if you face them to the rear to sound deaden your trunk to reduce rattle and improve DB.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:13 PM   #21
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Okay so I switched my box around from facing foward to facing back to check out the diffrence and diffrence was big lol you could feel the bass hitting you more so its going to stay facing back till I get some better subs lol
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:20 PM   #22
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had a 08 CTS with 1500w rms hitting 161.4db all day been there done that... sound quality is my this car is going!
So are you deaf yet?


OP, it sounds like rear facing is the way to go.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:14 AM   #23
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Its not so much the subs that you are running, its just acoustics. The bass waves want something to hit off of plus it takes a bass wave 7 feet of travel to hit its optimal sound range, so 2.5 feet to the trunk and 5 feet back to your head. Its about right.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:47 AM   #24
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Its not so much the subs that you are running, its just acoustics. The bass waves want something to hit off of plus it takes a bass wave 7 feet of travel to hit its optimal sound range, so 2.5 feet to the trunk and 5 feet back to your head. Its about right.
That is a simple way to say it...and a good ballpark as to what is going on. With sub bass we are looking for 1/4 wave or 1/2 wave points inside of a car...thus again why we measure in SPL and not really dB. 30 hz is 30 cycles per sec...speed of sound...yadda yadda...math math...it completes its cycle outside of your car. LOL

All of us like Todd (TC Audio) on here, myself...few others...that compete in USAC and IASCA in the upper tiers pay attention to path length and soundwave recreation. It makes a big difference on staging with the front speakers. This is one reason you see seats moved back in SQ cars. My GN has the seats back like 9 inches. My seating position puts driver and passenger smack dab middle of front mids and rear subs. You can do the same in a camaro...look at Todd's build.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:14 AM   #25
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So it looks like the answer to the question "rear v front facing" clearly leans towards the rear. So my q would be is it better to have two rear facing JL 10s, or will a JL stealthbox be just as good?
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