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Old 09-18-2008, 02:28 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
I guess.... I am not claiming to be the richest man ever, far from it lol. But I wouldn't even look at this car if I couldn't get the SS. (THIS IS JUST ME)

I would always hate myself for not figuring out a way to buy the SS and would never truely be happy with my base model, especially when I saw an SS on the road. It is only a few grand difference between the two models, if you can afford a new V6 and you can't afford a new SS you probably should be looking at a Kia.

I am in finance and the difference over 48 months or whatever you want to term the loan for 28k/29k vs 22k/24k is peanuts. Unless you are totally happy with the V6 as is and feel 300 HP is enough and you have no plans to mod the car at all then I am cool with owning a V6. But most all of us that are spending time on these boards are enthusiests, not everyday buyers. And with all the threads on modding the V6 it boggles me. I think some of the younger guys who may not be able to afford much don't understand how little the payments will differ between these two models.

Another option for guys who can't afford as much would be instead of purchasing a V6 LEASE the SS. I bet it is actually a bunch cheaper only monthly payments. Then you can give it back in 36 months for the Z28 when it drops
That's how I was with the Cobalt... I would have never looked into the Cobalt until the SS/SC came out. Same applies if I get another one. It's the SS Turbocharged or bust...

However personally, as much as I would love to get the Camaro SS. Due to the fact that whatever car I get next has to be my daily driver, there's no way I can afford the gas on the V8, so it wouldn't be practical for me. Now if it was a 2nd car... Definitely...

But I'll happily settle for the V6... for now...

Yeah. I looked into the lease vs buy when I got the SS/SC and there was quite a bit difference. I ended up leasing it and I'm glad I did....

But the Camaro will be purchased...

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Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
My poor little 2.4. I want to put in the Hahn Turbo for that easy 290+ horsepower. But since I'm saving for a 5th gen I don't think that will happen. We'll have to see how finances turn up.
I know someone that has a turbo on their 2.4 and it's much quicker than my SS/SC... I was planning on jumping right into the SS/TC after my lease ends, but I'm going to see if the Camaro can pan out for me first...
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:52 PM   #36
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I dunno about the solstic argument. By the time you buy the kit, have it installed, then have it tuned I bet you are in the 4-5 grand area. They are only 4 grand apart in price at invoice picing which is what they were offereing me.

So maybe bolting on a turbo to the base car would get you a few more ponies then a stock redline but it would still cost you the same and you would lose your warrenty. (Not that you wouldn't if you modded the Redline) I am just saying, if you want a bit more juice it isn't that much more. And you can always lease if you don't drive a gazillion miles a day.

I would also be careful about the fuel argument between the SS and the V6 too. Vettes get 30+mpg hwy with the ls3 now. Yes they have a better drag coef but other then that it is the same trans and same engine. So I would think with a light foot you could get 28 mpg in 6th at 70 mph. With the V6 maybe you could get 30. To me 2 mpg is like nothing. I believe both are tuned for 93 octane too I could be wrong there but I think the DI V6 needs 93 (or recommended) so there is no savings there either. 2 mpg is about 34 miles on a full tank (using only hwy mileage here) which is about $4 (premium is $3.61 here). So since i fill up once ever 12-14 days. $4 is so worth it.


* Note - I am totally not trying to be a negative nancy when I post. I hope no one takes it that way. I am just trying to bring up opinions and points that people may not have thought of and maybe help those decide between V6 and SS. More people will opt for the V6 and I know this but most everyone that take the time to post on this board KNOWS they want an SS at heart. I say go for it. Lease it if you have to and save over buying a V6 and put a smile on that face
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:13 PM   #37
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I dunno about the solstic argument. By the time you buy the kit, have it installed, then have it tuned I bet you are in the 4-5 grand area. They are only 4 grand apart in price at invoice picing which is what they were offereing me.

So maybe bolting on a turbo to the base car would get you a few more ponies then a stock redline but it would still cost you the same and you would lose your warrenty. (Not that you wouldn't if you modded the Redline) I am just saying, if you want a bit more juice it isn't that much more. And you can always lease if you don't drive a gazillion miles a day.

I would also be careful about the fuel argument between the SS and the V6 too. Vettes get 30+mpg hwy with the ls3 now. Yes they have a better drag coef but other then that it is the same trans and same engine. So I would think with a light foot you could get 28 mpg in 6th at 70 mph. With the V6 maybe you could get 30. To me 2 mpg is like nothing. I believe both are tuned for 93 octane too I could be wrong there but I think the DI V6 needs 93 (or recommended) so there is no savings there either. 2 mpg is about 34 miles on a full tank (using only hwy mileage here) which is about $4 (premium is $3.61 here). So since i fill up once ever 12-14 days. $4 is so worth it.
Yeah, I don't know whether it'll require premium or not. I read on the forums that it will only take regular unleaded, but I'm pretty sure in the CTS, since it is the same engine, the CTS does take premium, or at least mid-grade...

The Corvette not only has a better drag coefficient but it's 500-600lbs lighter. Which makes a big difference.

The Camaro is a lot heavier, so I'd expect it to not get anywhere near the same mpgs as the Corvette despite having the same power & drive train...

If it does, then I may just be surprised. Unless the V8 gets better than expected gas mileage then if the difference between the fuel mileage of the V6 vs V8 is marginal then why not get the V8?

All I know is if I do get one I'll be in a little bit of gas price shock seeing that I get 30+ on the highway and mid to high 20's city in my little supercharged 4cyl Cobalt. + the 11.6 gallon tank, hasn't cost me over $50 yet to fill up on premium yet...
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:32 PM   #38
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Yeah, I don't know whether it'll require premium or not. I read on the forums that it will only take regular unleaded, but I'm pretty sure in the CTS, since it is the same engine, the CTS does take premium, or at least mid-grade...

The Corvette not only has a better drag coefficient but it's 500-600lbs lighter. Which makes a big difference.

The Camaro is a lot heavier, so I'd expect it to not get anywhere near the same mpgs as the Corvette despite having the same power & drive train...

If it does, then I may just be surprised. Unless the V8 gets better than expected gas mileage then if the difference between the fuel mileage of the V6 vs V8 is marginal then why not get the V8?

All I know is if I do get one I'll be in a little bit of gas price shock seeing that I get 30+ on the highway and mid to high 20's city in my little supercharged 4cyl Cobalt. + the 11.6 gallon tank, hasn't cost me over $50 yet to fill up on premium yet...
Haha yeah you will be in gas shock with either i am afraid. About the weight you are right that is another factor BUT since the V6 and V8 as so close in weight the argument still stands with the delta between the two. So it may not be 30 and 28. It may be 26 and 24 but the delta should still be like 2 mpg.

The thing is that the vette says 16-24 on the sticker but almost everyone reports getting 30+ on the highway

I estimate the camaro will say 16-21 for the SS (something like that) and still pull off 25-26 easy on the hwy.
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:41 PM   #39
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:47 PM   #40
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FYI: the 6-cylinder in the Camaro drinks regular-grade fuel. Premium is not even recommended.

and FYI (2): The V6 Camaro will put a smile on your face, too. See the disciples videos: they were ALL smiling...A more accurate way to say it would be "The SS will put a bigger smile on your face".
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:52 PM   #41
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This may be true that the 335 has little to no spool and makes max tq at 2000 but holding to 5500 means it is dead up top. That is the problem with turbos you cannot get big power through the entire range its either small turbos for fast spool and quick takeoff or large single turbos for max kick but major bog down low.


Don't forget that these cars are created and designed from the factory with turbo setups making them much more resonsive and adaptive. You will not get the same effect when throwing a turbo on the v6 camaro as a stock 335 its just totally different.
Just FYI: the 335 is twin-turbo'd with two smaller turbos; to reduce the spool time; so; individually they are smaller turbos but together they equal one big one, boost-wise.

However: you are right about them being dead up top because of their size; they can't hold the high-power band.

And personally; I'd probably wait for a factory option on a S/C or turbo if I decided i wanted one anyway... I completely agree; it's much safer all around that way. My Frontier is factory 'charged and I love it... but I'd be scared if I'd done it myself; or even had someone else do it for me; only because of the simple fact that if it comes from the factory; it's all meant to go together. Putting it on yourself on equipment that wasn't meant for it is just a gamble to me.

But I honestly think I'd be perfectly fine with my 422-hp SS
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:27 PM   #42
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Oh I understand the 335 and small twins. Single turbos will always outperform twins (especially sequential turbos) for overall massive HP at peak. This is why all the late 90's supra TT owners convert their cars to a single garret BB monster turbo.

The 335 is designed for lighting response off the line with little to no lag. With a tune alone they are incredible and will run 12's. However with those small snails they are sitting ducks on the highway

You will be amazed by the power of the Ls3 at 422. No one needs that much power, until about month 3 when well it could use a little better pickup (Intake) and month 5 when ya know it could use a little better breathing and some top end (Headers/Cat Back) then 1 year well she seems to have lost some punch (SC) lololol
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:00 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
Oh I understand the 335 and small twins. Single turbos will always outperform twins (especially sequential turbos) for overall massive HP at peak. This is why all the late 90's supra TT owners convert their cars to a single garret BB monster turbo.

The 335 is designed for lighting response off the line with little to no lag. With a tune alone they are incredible and will run 12's. However with those small snails they are sitting ducks on the highway

You will be amazed by the power of the Ls3 at 422. No one needs that much power, until about month 3 when well it could use a little better pickup (Intake) and month 5 when ya know it could use a little better breathing and some top end (Headers/Cat Back) then 1 year well she seems to have lost some punch (SC) lololol
I agree with you on all fronts. The only point I want to make is that lag is a thing of the past so long as the tuner installing a turbo chooses the right turbo for that particular application. If you get a turbo that is too big, you simply won't get all of the benefits. This probably won't be as much of a problem for Camaro driver because most of us are more mature than the guys on some 4-banger forums. Those guys usually think that bigger is better in terms of forced induction, exhaust piping, spoilers, and rims.

Obviously, the above is a general statement that is not intended to offend anyone but instead corrects the misconception that bigger is always better.
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Old 09-18-2008, 06:35 PM   #44
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Again this may be a decent option for the V6 but I just don't get the logic on why people would even consider this route?

It will cost you more to put on a turbo or blower on the V6 and lose your warrenty then it would to just buy the SS with a full coverage. On top of which the SS will still be putting more power to the wheels stock then the V6 with FI.

Stock LS3 vettes have put down as much as 400 whp. Most are in the 390-400 range. So lets just say that the camaro will but down about 385 stock. The V6 will put down at best 270 probably more like 260. There isn't much of a chance for that V6 with FI to safely get to 385 whp and if it does it would be at its limit.

that would be a 125 HP increase or 48% which i dont see happening.
You have a very good point and I agree. I just started this thread because the thought ran through my mind because maybe ill start with an V6 because of the price and mpg, then maybe wayyy into the future i wanted to add more power. But im almost 100% sure im getting an SS.
By the way i found a link that has a long list of details about the V6. But im sure im not the first to find something like this.
http://drupal.caddyinfo.com/?q=node/44
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:33 PM   #45
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Hey whatever floats peoples boat. Make sure you are making the right choice for you! If you ever think there will be a doubt in your mind that you didn't save for 6 months more for the SS then don't put yourself through that, save and get the SS.

If you will question why you got the auto, don't get an MT. I have been down that road and it is really hard living with a car that is everything you want but you decided to get the auto. Don't let yourself have regrets! The V6 will NEVER have the potential of the V8 no matter which way you slice it. Make the choice that is the right one for your needs/desires
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:34 AM   #46
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how many hp could you gain without putting a turbo or super in your car
could someone make a list and list how many hp it adds thanks

im a noob car guy :(

thanks guys
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:12 PM   #47
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how many hp could you gain without putting a turbo or super in your car
could someone make a list and list how many hp it adds thanks

im a noob car guy :(

thanks guys
It depends on how extreme you want to go. You could probably get the 3.6 over 400 NA hp if you tried. I imagine that you could build the LS3 to over 600 hp NA. But doing that will be rather expensive and you would have to replace a lot of parts.
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:03 PM   #48
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I dunno man, at 3.6 liters, 304 hp NA is pretty dang good. Seems it's already been 'tuned' from the factory to scream at near its best. I'd be surprised if you could get 340 out of it with bolt ons (headers, exhaust, intake, computer tune). I mean, the little guy's already got DI and over 11:1 CR! He's already overworked! (but doing a fine job of it! ) Another thing that I like to conveniently overlook is the 3.6's torque rating of 270 foot pounds. It's good, yes. But I'd like to see mods that bumped IT up into the 300s too. As cool as it is to say to a mustang GT owner "I have more hp than you," he can retort quite handily "Ah, but I have a substantial excess in torque. And I weigh less. "
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:37 PM   #49
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I dunno man, at 3.6 liters, 304 hp NA is pretty dang good. Seems it's already been 'tuned' from the factory to scream at near its best. I'd be surprised if you could get 340 out of it with bolt ons (headers, exhaust, intake, computer tune). I mean, the little guy's already got DI and over 11:1 CR! He's already overworked! (but doing a fine job of it! ) Another thing that I like to conveniently overlook is the 3.6's torque rating of 270 foot pounds. It's good, yes. But I'd like to see mods that bumped IT up into the 300s too. As cool as it is to say to a mustang GT owner "I have more hp than you," he can retort quite handily "Ah, but I have a substantial excess in torque. And I weigh less. "
I doubt a couple of bolt on's could give it much more than 340 as well. But I was referring to a full on build up to get the maximum amount of power out of those things, naturally aspirated. Stock it does pretty good for its size, ~83 hp/L. My argument was based on if full on race engines can make over 140 hp/L then toping 110 hp/L should be build-able on a direct injected modern engine like the 3.6 IF you've got the cash, are willing to replace a lot of parts, and do a lot of maintenance. Its still the same engine so long as you keep the same block . . .
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:07 PM   #50
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Yeah, I know if I get the V6, I'd probably only do bolt-ons and a tune if available, (cat-back, headers, CAI, tune) and would be happy if that got me around 340hp.

But later on I'd consider a supercharger, depending on the work involved will be. I'm not going to be up for swapping out all the internals...
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:55 PM   #51
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I doubt a couple of bolt on's could give it much more than 340 as well. But I was referring to a full on build up to get the maximum amount of power out of those things, naturally aspirated. Stock it does pretty good for its size, ~83 hp/L. My argument was based on if full on race engines can make over 140 hp/L then toping 110 hp/L should be build-able on a direct injected modern engine like the 3.6 IF you've got the cash, are willing to replace a lot of parts, and do a lot of maintenance. Its still the same engine so long as you keep the same block . . .
Agreed. I'm not sure if that will be a common occurrence, a radically-built 3.6 putting out over 400hp NA, but yes, anything's possible if you've got the cash.

I'm also a fiero forums member and this engine is a hot topic for swaps. There was a post on there a few months back that had an article about the new global GM v6, and all its iterations. Seems they make or are planning to make a low-compression, DI turbo 2.8 L version with the VVT and QOHC. Don't remember horsepower numbers, but this could be an interesting powerplant for a future camaro, probably get fantastic mileage if you kept your foot out of it too...
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