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Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

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Old 09-17-2008, 11:44 PM   #51
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Does any one remember that the Camaro 4th gen was killing corvette sales during that time? People were getting the Camaro and doing little mods and were performing better and running better. That was part of the reason the car was stopped, but not the whole reason.
Yeah, don't mess with those Vette guys and their mid life crisis. Nothing good can come from that. LOL...j/k.
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Old 09-18-2008, 09:24 AM   #52
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1) The camaro was NOT cancelled because it outsold or outperformed another GM product. It was cancelled because they did not sell well enough to justify the continued production. GM "likes money, they have a little, they want more of it."

2) From 1993 on the camaro has always outperformed the mustang on every level, with exception to 2-3 iterations. The camaro v6 always beat the mustang v6. The camaro v8 always beat the mustang v8, and the SS would run with the "cobra" or svt.

3) Yes we will need to mod the SS to run with the GT500, but you will only have to spend $2-3K to do it. Dollar for Dollar...with the same amount of money the camaro would win.
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Old 09-18-2008, 09:33 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Shifty 6 View Post
1) The camaro was NOT cancelled because it outsold or outperformed another GM product. It was cancelled because they did not sell well enough to justify the continued production. GM "likes money, they have a little, they want more of it."
Yes, and for that reason among many, was why the Camaro/Firebird were killed. Not to mention that the F-body was pretty much obsolete by 2002, and a new platform was needed. Then the "Geniuses" over at GM figured, let's come out with new products like the SSR, and the Pontiac GTO a year and two later to replace them... And yeah... look what happened there. They were better off just keeping the Camaro and Firebird around, and maybe using them off of the Monaro's platform, although that was seeing the last of it's days too...

Oh well, hey the important thing is the Camaro is coming back! And looking better then ever!
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:43 AM   #54
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thats bph, not whp.




Ill give ford credit.

they own the big dog from the factory.

That being said. modded car threads are worthless so Ford still gets big dog kudos.

But if you think the SS wont spank the GT500 after 3k worth of mods, none of which include a supercharger, than your in lala land.

520 hp 3800lbs vs. 500hp 3950lbs

That being said. Modded car threads are worthless. Ford still has the big dog here, so kudos to them.
yes indeed they do have a mighty powerful car form the factory. BUT its not the best handling pony in the stable, read any magazine or online video review they all say the same thing. So even if the camaro cant get 520BHP we could get as close as possible and then out handle them. there are other styles of racing besides drag racing, Trans am revival anyone
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:05 AM   #55
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yes indeed they do have a mighty powerful car form the factory. BUT its not the best handling pony in the stable, read any magazine or online video review they all say the same thing. So even if the camaro cant get 520BHP we could get as close as possible and then out handle them. there are other styles of racing besides drag racing, Trans am revival anyone
definately, the Camaro will be the BETTER CAR. Ford just took their plastic box and droped a supercharger in it.

after 5k worth of mods, i cant think of anything within the price range that can tango with an SS
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty 6 View Post
1) The camaro was NOT cancelled because it outsold or outperformed another GM product. It was cancelled because they did not sell well enough to justify the continued production. GM "likes money, they have a little, they want more of it."

2) From 1993 on the camaro has always outperformed the mustang on every level, with exception to 2-3 iterations. The camaro v6 always beat the mustang v6. The camaro v8 always beat the mustang v8, and the SS would run with the "cobra" or svt.

3) Yes we will need to mod the SS to run with the GT500, but you will only have to spend $2-3K to do it. Dollar for Dollar...with the same amount of money the camaro would win.
also because the union contract where they were being made was raping GM. because as sales went up the union kept pushing for more and more money. it also had an exclusivity deal that the camaro could only be made by workers in that specific area.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:12 PM   #57
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I think and stress I, is that the younger generation (18-29) buyer loved the Fbody due to looks and performance. On the other hand the baby boomers and older (40-60), that have the money and wanted an American V8 sports car were purchasing the Mustang? WHY? Well, I will use my father as an example.... 55 years old and hates my TA... Why... Because he hates having to roll out of a seat every time he wants to get out of the car. Yet with the stang he had no issues with the seats and it’s a lot easier to get in and out of. Also, to him it is not about performance it is about fun to drive. While every now and then it is about feeling the power of a V8. Also, the Mustang was just a classier looking car for older people. As for the new Camaro.... I LOVE IT and my Father LOVES the new look. So hopefully this generation Camaro will do better than the last.... Just my thoughts on why the Camaro was X'ed (Sales)
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:41 PM   #58
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I think and stress I, is that the younger generation (18-29) buyer loved the Fbody due to looks and performance. On the other hand the baby boomers and older (40-60), that have the money and wanted an American V8 sports car were purchasing the Mustang? WHY? Well, I will use my father as an example.... 55 years old and hates my TA... Why... Because he hates having to roll out of a seat every time he wants to get out of the car. Yet with the stang he had no issues with the seats and it’s a lot easier to get in and out of. Also, to him it is not about performance it is about fun to drive. While every now and then it is about feeling the power of a V8. Also, the Mustang was just a classier looking car for older people. As for the new Camaro.... I LOVE IT and my Father LOVES the new look. So hopefully this generation Camaro will do better than the last.... Just my thoughts on why the Camaro was X'ed (Sales)
Well said, Cmyskill.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:52 PM   #59
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I would like to stir the pot with a quote directly from the almighty father.
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well -- we learned a long time ago (unlike some people we won't mention....) that there is this thing called a "Dyno" -- and if you advertise a horsepower, you'd better be SURE you can deliver.


If we advertise 422hp -- you can write it in Granny's Bible that all cars will have at least 422 hp with that particular engine.
Which I interpret to mean that if you put this thing on a dyno, it is going to read 422. I venture to guess that like many of the General's cars before it, they are giving the whp rating after drivetrain losses.
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Old 09-18-2008, 01:19 PM   #60
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I would like to stir the pot with a quote directly from the almighty father.


Which I interpret to mean that if you put this thing on a dyno, it is going to read 422. I venture to guess that like many of the General's cars before it, they are giving the whp rating after drivetrain losses.
Good old Fbodfather. I guess that pretty much kills this thread lol.
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Old 09-18-2008, 01:19 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
I would like to stir the pot with a quote directly from the almighty father.


Which I interpret to mean that if you put this thing on a dyno, it is going to read 422. I venture to guess that like many of the General's cars before it, they are giving the whp rating after drivetrain losses.
its sae certified which means it is tested outside of the car. they arent allowed to fudge numbers like they used too
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:36 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
I would like to stir the pot with a quote directly from the almighty father.


Which I interpret to mean that if you put this thing on a dyno, it is going to read 422. I venture to guess that like many of the General's cars before it, they are giving the whp rating after drivetrain losses.
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Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
its sae certified which means it is tested outside of the car. they arent allowed to fudge numbers like they used too
What I think FbodFather is implying is that if you grab the LS3s out of 100 new ‘Vettes or Camaros and put them on engine dynos they will all make at least 422hp. The implication is that if you did the same with another manufacturer’s cars you might find that the average power was greater than the rated power, but that some would fall short.
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:41 PM   #63
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What I think FbodFather is implying is that if you grab the LS3s out of 100 new ‘Vettes or Camaros and put them on engine dynos they will all make at least 422hp. The implication is that if you did the same with another manufacturer’s cars you might find that the average power was greater than the rated power, but that some would fall short.
I disagree. The auto rags that test these cars aren't going to take the time to pull an engine and strap it to a dyno (with the exception of maybe CHP and GM High Tech). When looking for something big to criticize, most mags go for the power rating. They take it and strap it to a chasiss dyno to see if the manufacturer is fibbing or not. To protect themselves from this, GM has a history of giving closer to a whp estimation.
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Old 09-18-2008, 07:27 PM   #64
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Whatever the numbers, let's just hope it comes out best in class head to head versus the competition. Both HP and $$$
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Old 09-19-2008, 06:54 AM   #65
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GM wants to be "honest" in the rating of their cars. They don't want to tell you it has 450 when it has 422 and they don't want to tell you it has 380 when it has 422 (the GT-R is suffering from this). Everybody hates it when you come belly up to the bar and brag about your car having 450 hp when it doesn't. Everyone laughs and dismisses you as the idiot you are. Everyone also hates it when you belly up to the bar and brag how fast your car is with 380 hp and they know it has 422. Everyone looks in disgust because they know you are sand bagging, and you are LYING. What else are you lying about? Why are you hiding this information? Don't you respect me or trust me?

Only Scott can say for sure, but I think what he is saying is "yeah there are going to be a couple cars with 3-4 more hp, and there are going to be cars with 3-4 fewer hp, but you can count on our stuff being consistant, and accurate. You can trust us on other stuff too".

Or.....I am just a big fat jerk.
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