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Old 09-18-2008, 03:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
You dont payment shop because you want to negotiate on the overall price of hte car FIRST. Never talk payment options up front. You want to get the most off the bottom line of the car, once you have done that you can start to talk methods of payment. (Which really pi55es them off b/c they know you out negotiated them)

The reason for this is they tier interest rates, can sometimes play with residual values of the car, and will quote your price THEN roll taxes and fees into it raising payments. Also if you come in with a ballpark payment and it is a little high they will hold you to that and NEVER give you a better price on the car.

Also downpayments and trades come into play. Always negotiate the trade before as well. Get to the out the door price of the vehicle with tax and tags before talking payment. Most buyers are not finance majors and get eatin alive and don't even know it. They got their 450 a month and think it was a steal when they weren't aware that the 1000 rebate that was offered went right into the dealers pocket.

Negotiating a car deal is an art. Never be desperate, always be able to walk away with a calm face. Never go into a dealer so excited (knowing you are going to buy a car) that you give off your tell that you are going to purchase TODAY.

Always negotiate any and all incentives FIRST before you start talking about the price of the car. People get trapped in this all the time. There will be a 2500 rebate and what they don't realize is that it is a dealer rebate. So if the car is 30,000 the dealer will tell you it is now 27,500 JUST FOR YOU!!!. NO, that rebate is from the factory and has no bearing on the dealer price. That money will be given back to the dealer by GM. So you START your negotiation at 27,500 not 30,000. Invoice is still king.

Once you get them to their lowest price (hopefully near invoice which you should absolutely know ahead of time with options and all) you then pull out dealer holdback. The dealer gets a loan from the parent to keep those cars on the lot, if they sell them before the holdback runs out then they pocket the rest of that $. Use it to your advantage. Tell them you will split the holdback with them.

Now say you are at 25,500. Add tax and title. Make sure they add no kind of advertising fees, doc fees, dealer fees, pinstriping, etc. Pay ONLY what you tax rate is and say $300 for motor vehicle fees. They will try to kill you here too. So if we were in NJ tax is 7% so the car would be $27,585 after $300 for motor vehicle.

NOW you talk payment methods. There is nowhere for them to hide ANYTHING at this point other then a lease or finance rate. And if you know they are offereing 2.9% to qualified buyers and they are trying to give you 6.99% you know they are screwing you. Let THEM work up the payment amount at that point and if it doesn't fit in your budget then the car is too expensive or you didn't do a good job negotiating.

I have done this many many times and it takes a good poker face, negotiation skills, and patience. Just remember, there is always room to move for them, always!
I'm printing that...
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:27 PM   #16
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Refresh it I added to it

Feel free to ask me any questions if something doesn't make sense. II have a BS in Finance and work with finance, budgets, costing etc every day of my life.
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:42 PM   #17
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EDIT -

I mistyped something I wrote above and I want to clarify it ( I was typing so fast I didn't realize)


I stated that if there was a 2500 rebate they would try to tell you MSRP was 30,000 but for you the price is now 27500 and for you to start negotiating there. That isn't what I meant or what you should do.

You need to FIRST negotiate the price of the car down to the lowest possible price with you FORGETTING about rebates and incentives. Say invoice is 27,000 on the car. You want to awlays shoot for at least invoice on a car. So you tell him you just want to talk price of the car without incentives. They will ask you what price do you have in mind. You say 26,500. They will say "where in the world did you come up with that" and you cool and calm say that is the price I am working for.

They will laugh and tell you it isn't possible blah blah blah and need to go talk to their manager. They will come back and say $28,000 is what I am approved to sell it for. You say 26,500 they will go bac one more time and say manager said I can go to 27,500. Then you say if they are willing to move this car today you will do the deal for 27,000.

they will go back and forth and finally if you hold they will meet you. NOW you use the 2500 rebate. See the difference. That rebate is YOURS, never use it on the top price use it when you are done negotiating. My mistake above.

So now you have them at invoice (27,000) and you get your 2500 rebate and the cars price is now 24,500 for you! That is how you do it, sorry about above
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Old 09-18-2008, 03:57 PM   #18
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payment

as long as im under $500 per month im fine. right now i have 2 $400 per month payments those will be gone in a few months and then ill be ready.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
EDIT -

I mistyped something I wrote above and I want to clarify it ( I was typing so fast I didn't realize)


I stated that if there was a 2500 rebate they would try to tell you MSRP was 30,000 but for you the price is now 27500 and for you to start negotiating there. That isn't what I meant or what you should do.

You need to FIRST negotiate the price of the car down to the lowest possible price with you FORGETTING about rebates and incentives. Say invoice is 27,000 on the car. You want to awlays shoot for at least invoice on a car. So you tell him you just want to talk price of the car without incentives. They will ask you what price do you have in mind. You say 26,500. They will say "where in the world did you come up with that" and you cool and calm say that is the price I am working for.

They will laugh and tell you it isn't possible blah blah blah and need to go talk to their manager. They will come back and say $28,000 is what I am approved to sell it for. You say 26,500 they will go bac one more time and say manager said I can go to 27,500. Then you say if they are willing to move this car today you will do the deal for 27,000.

they will go back and forth and finally if you hold they will meet you. NOW you use the 2500 rebate. See the difference. That rebate is YOURS, never use it on the top price use it when you are done negotiating. My mistake above.

So now you have them at invoice (27,000) and you get your 2500 rebate and the cars price is now 24,500 for you! That is how you do it, sorry about above
i have never bought from a dealer before...
dude im making you my friend!
theres no way im going to the dealer blindfolded. i have been doing my share of research but i'll take all the help i can get...

Camaro, here we come!
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:21 PM   #20
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No problem! Ill help all I can. I bought my 2005 legacy GT (which was the very fisrt year of the totally redone model) for $500 UNDER invoice.

Dealers thrive on idiots. They love to move cars though. So even if you come in and get a terrific deal, they are ok with it b/c 99% of those that come in get raped by their smoke and mirrors which is how they make the $. Don't let them make $ on you, just let them move a car you be the 1%
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
You dont payment shop because you want to negotiate on the overall price of hte car FIRST. Never talk payment options up front. You want to get the most off the bottom line of the car, once you have done that you can start to talk methods of payment. (Which really pi55es them off b/c they know you out negotiated them)

The reason for this is they tier interest rates, can sometimes play with residual values of the car, and will quote your price THEN roll taxes and fees into it raising payments. Also if you come in with a ballpark payment and it is a little high they will hold you to that and NEVER give you a better price on the car.

Also downpayments and trades come into play. Always negotiate the trade before as well. Get to the out the door price of the vehicle with tax and tags before talking payment. Most buyers are not finance majors and get eatin alive and don't even know it. They got their 450 a month and think it was a steal when they weren't aware that the 1000 rebate that was offered went right into the dealers pocket.

Negotiating a car deal is an art. Never be desperate, always be able to walk away with a calm face. Never go into a dealer so excited (knowing you are going to buy a car) that you give off your tell that you are going to purchase TODAY.


Edited
Always negotiate any and all incentives AFTER you start talking about the price of the car. People get trapped in this all the time. There will be a 2500 rebate and what they don't realize is that it is a dealer rebate. So if the car is 30,000 the dealer will tell you it is now 27,500 JUST FOR YOU!!!. NO, that rebate is from the factory and has no bearing on the dealer price. That money will be given back to the dealer by GM. So you START your negotiation at 30,000. Invoice is still king. Shoot for invoice and when you end the negotiation THEN you take off the 2500! Dont let them get your 2500(if you have a trade you want to negotiate the trade seperately with them and do NOT let them say oh we calculated your trade in the monthly payment haha. Negotiate the trade price and get it in writing BEFORE you even take price on the new car that way they can't go back on you there)

Once you get them to their lowest price (hopefully near invoice which you should absolutely know ahead of time with options and all) you then pull out dealer holdback. The dealer gets a loan from the parent to keep those cars on the lot, if they sell them before the holdback runs out then they pocket the rest of that $. Use it to your advantage. Tell them you will split the holdback with them.

Now say you are at 25,500. Add tax and title. Make sure they add no kind of advertising fees, doc fees, dealer fees, pinstriping, etc. Pay ONLY what you tax rate is and say $300 for motor vehicle fees. They will try to kill you here too. So if we were in NJ tax is 7% so the car would be $27,585 after $300 for motor vehicle.

NOW you talk payment methods. There is nowhere for them to hide ANYTHING at this point other then a lease or finance rate. And if you know they are offereing 2.9% to qualified buyers and they are trying to give you 6.99% you know they are screwing you. Let THEM work up the payment amount at that point and if it doesn't fit in your budget then the car is too expensive or you didn't do a good job negotiating. Unless you are reallllllly bad you are always a "qualified buyer" it just gives them another out to try to screw you or the next guy.

I have done this many many times and it takes a good poker face, negotiation skills, and patience. Just remember, there is always room to move for them, always!


Also remember that you want to put as much down as possible on a purchase but ZERO down on a lease. If you are going to own the asset you want to pre pay as much of the value of the asset now so you aren't paying interest on it. On a lease you never want to give them $ up front b/c you could put that in even a bank account and make 3% on your money over the years and help pay each lease payment as they come up with what would have been your capital reduction.

Hope that helps anyone that may be new to this or intimidated!

hey this is why I will never go to Vegas. I am doing the one payment plan. I am hopping to get the SS for under $36K w/ selected oppions.
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:37 PM   #22
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MBlock66,
do you think there is any room to negotiate on the '10 Camaros or is MSRP pretty much gonna be it for the first few months?
Also Im looking at putting $10K-$18K down on the vehicle. do you think it would be wise to NOT mention so the dealer may go down on the price because he thinks he may be getting interest from me financing a larger amount there, OR should I use the power of cash as a leverage in the bargaining so he'll take me seriously??? Just thought I'd throw that out there for you seasoned car shoppers......
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
No problem! Ill help all I can. I bought my 2005 legacy GT (which was the very fisrt year of the totally redone model) for $500 UNDER invoice.

Dealers thrive on idiots. They love to move cars though. So even if you come in and get a terrific deal, they are ok with it b/c 99% of those that come in get raped by their smoke and mirrors which is how they make the $. Don't let them make $ on you, just let them move a car you be the 1%
Sounds like a plan. Thanks again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by srtclg1007 View Post
MBlock66,
do you think there is any room to negotiate on the '10 Camaros or is MSRP pretty much gonna be it for the first few months?
Also Im looking at putting $10K-$18K down on the vehicle. do you think it would be wise to NOT mention so the dealer may go down on the price because he thinks he may be getting interest from me financing a larger amount there, OR should I use the power of cash as a leverage in the bargaining so he'll take me seriously??? Just thought I'd throw that out there for you seasoned car shoppers......
good question

My guess would be to hold off, so that the dealer won't have room to work with the difference they have left over after your down payment.
but we'll let MBlock66 answer this one
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:02 PM   #24
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for the first few months. If you can get them down to MSRP with all the hype you are rocken.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:13 PM   #25
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Agreed it depends on when you are buying. If you are going to buy immediately you will be lucky to even get MSRP from dealers that won't budge. They will get enough business from the people willing to pay 5k over so they will not negotiate with you. If you are talking December 2010 you will get a nice discount.

Also another tidbit for you all. ALWAYS go shopping for your car on the last business day of the month. Salesmen need to make a quota and will do almost anything to move a car, especially a sports car in a winter month!

So if you can hold out and let the lunatics buy their camaros 5k over you will probably be able to get invoice +1,000 within 3 months and invoice within 6 months.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:27 PM   #26
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Mblock66, you have very good advice about going to the dealer.

I'm going to hire you to talk to my dealer for me.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:35 PM   #27
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I would ideally like to keep my payment below $350, which should be simple since I'll have around 22-25K saved to put down by the time I actually get the car which will be a moderately well-loaded SS. I want my term to not exceed past 48 months either. Whenever I can, I'll overpay the monthly payment too.
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Old 09-18-2008, 05:44 PM   #28
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For those of us who CAN'T drag MBlock66 to the dealer

I've been doing some reading on the following website and found it to be very helpful in car buying. It begins with your credit score and works its way up to finalizing that car sale. You may find that it has good advice on avoiding dealer scams and dealing with crafty sales people.

Take a look!

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/carintro.html
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