Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
River City Camaro Customs
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions

5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions General 5th generation Camaro topics not covered by other subforums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2011, 01:38 PM   #176
Amenti
 
Amenti's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 1LT RS A6, C&C, Victory Red
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oxnard, CA
Posts: 584
In one of his replies, this guy mentions he has been "covering" the auto-industry for 20 (I think) years. I wonder if, in that 20-odd years, he's managed to come up with one reasonably logical argument.

As far as I can tell, there aren't any well-constructed arguments in his 2006 article or his most recent article predicting Camaro's demise. He also appears to be fairly quick provide conflicting arguments/information when confronted with a counter-argument.

I've been having a little fun picking through his articles a bit. I'm glad it's a slow day at work.
__________________
Performance Mods: Injen Powerflow CAI, Doug Thorley Cat-Back Exhaust, Doug Thorley Shorty Headers, Trifecta Tune, TSW Nurburgring Wheels 20x9, 3.45 Ratio LSD Swap, VMax Black Ice-Olator

Appearance Mods: RiderGraphix LS7 Front Fascia Blackout Vinyl, Gill Insert Vinyl, Rear Deck Lid Vinyl (Gloss Black), Gary's Customs Painted Bowties

Coming Soon: BMR Trailing Arms
Amenti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 03:02 PM   #177
armysig
Catch me if you can
 
armysig's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 IOM ZL-1
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,469
I just ready anotehr article from this site, I think this guy is off his rocker.

He basicly is saying that the Camaro, Challanger, and Mustang are not Muscle cars? EH?

Camaro, Challenger and Mustang: Great Cars – But Not Muscle Cars…


Quote:

By eric December 27, 2010
The Dodge Challenger, Chevy Camaro and Ford Mustang are great performance cars, but they aren’t muscle cars. That species is extinct – and there’s no bringing them back.
Muscle cars were born at a unique moment in American history when technology had developed to the point that enormously powerful engines were becoming available but the government hadn’t caught up with them yet. When it was possible to build a machine with a six or seven liter engine with no concern whatever for how loud it was, how much pollution it belched or how much gas it drank. Before government regulators made it legally impossible to offer such unchained wildness to the general public. When there were no requirements that new cars be fitted with electronic safety nets ranging from air bags to ABS. When it was still possible for a person just out of their teens (not well into middle age, as now) to buy a V-8 powered tire-fryer, brand-new – right off the showroom floor.
Those days are decades gone and will never return. Accordingly, neither will the muscle car.
Challenger and Mustang and Camaro look the part. They are macho and big-tired and powered by large V-8 engines. But it is not the same.
Their V-8s are as docile as they are powerful. They idle like Camrys and pull plenty of vacuum to run power brakes and other accessories. They all have AC… climate control AC. They are happy with automatic transmissions behind them. They can be driven by… anyone.
If you’re old enough to remember, that was most definitely not the case with something like a ’70 SS 454 Chevelle or RA III GTO. Cars like these were marginally house-trained and could be very scary. They did not do well in traffic; heavy clutches and a tendency to overheat kept you working- and sweating. They were loud, poorly built and evil-handling things. Most rode on 15-inch steel wheels. Some – including a Plymouth GTX 440 Magnum owned by a high school friend of mine – had 14s. Imagine: a 4,000 pound car with a huge V-8, no traction control – with a contact patch about the same size as a current Toyota Corolla.
Muscle cars were dangerous. It was easy to get in over your head. My high school friend ended up being killed in that GTX. It almost got me, too. This car had over-boosted power steering as vague as a politician’s promise – and drum brakes, all around. At 125 mph – which it would do, easily, the front end of the car began to rotate like a C-130 on its take-off roll. But you didn’t have wings and once those skinny 14 inch Hurst mags up front got some air under them, your life was in the hands of the Motor Gods. Almost all the muscle cars of the ’60s and ’70s were ass-light and nose heavy, which resulted in violent, often uncontrollable oversteer when you gave it too much gas, too soon. This was part of the fun, of course. But it’s also part of the reason why muscle cars died off. Once the insurance companies began to tabulate their losses – and predict future ones – they began to jack up the premiums to compensate. Which quickly made muscle cars unaffordable to the 18-25 set that lusted after them the most. Then gas prices went up – and soon, it was all over.

By 1975 – the first year of catalytic converters – there were no muscle cars. A few nameplates – such as Camaro and Trans-Am – persisted. But the Z28 was history and the Trans-Am had been steered; underneath the still-menacing bodywork with its flares and scoops and angry-looking eagle on the hood, the biggest and baddest you could get was a 200 hp 455 and mid 15 second quarters.
A 2011 Camry V-6 is quicker.
So, what we have in cars like the revived Camaro Z28, Mustang GT and Challenger R/T are performance cars, certainly - but not muscle cars.
A muscle car, by definition, is dangerous and wild. It is rude, crude – and obnoxious, too. The closest thing to it that’s remotely new is a Yamaha V-Max with straight pipes. Muscle cars were about sideways skittering burnouts and hard tire chirps on the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts down the quarter mile, tail out powerslides barely under control and the strutting presence of an obstreperous rooster when rolling slowly through the local drive-thru joint on Saturday nights with your buddies.
Only a handful of real muscle cars even made a pretense of handling or braking ability; only one – the Pontiac Trans-Am – even offered disc brakes all around.
Not a single real muscle car ever came with traction control, stability control – or air bags and ABS. “Safety” and muscle cars go together like mustard and ice cream. Hell, being unsafe was the whole point. It was a way of thumbing your nose at The Man and showing everyone you had a pulse and something between your legs, too.
Modern performance cars like the Challenger R/T, Mustang GT and Camaro have all the safety stuff – like it or not. They also handle and brake as well as they go in a straight line. They don’t make your eyes water if you stand near the tailpipe, actually manage not-bad gas mileage and your grandmother could drive one.
Which nicely proves the point that whatever these things are trying to be, they’ll never be the real deal. It can’t be done. That era – and those cars – are history, like the wild west and carrying kids unbuckled and rolling around like cordwood in the back of an Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser.

A lot of us pine for those days, which explains the attempted resurrection of muscle cars. But like the old Eddie Money song says: “I wanna go back and do it all over but I can’t go back, I know…


__________________
armysig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 03:03 PM   #178
THATS NO M00N
it's a space station!
 
THATS NO M00N's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 1LT RS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 114
That's the article I was referring to.
__________________
THATS NO M00N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 03:10 PM   #179
Devon
The Ace of Spades
 
Devon's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ear Falls, ON, Canada
Posts: 639
This is the second time I had to whip this out today...

Just goes to show that if you kiss the right asses, it doesn't matter how little you know about something or how wrong you are in general, you can still keep a cushy job.
Attached Images
 
Devon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 03:25 PM   #180
cab2g
love. my. car.
 
cab2g's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by armysig View Post
I just ready anotehr article from this site, I think this guy is off his rocker.

He basicly is saying that the Camaro, Challanger, and Mustang are not Muscle cars? EH?

Camaro, Challenger and Mustang: Great Cars – But Not Muscle Cars…
dude needs to turn off traction control and report back... These cars will get out of control in a heartbeat if you turn off TC. and if he still says they're not muscle cars because they have airbags then he's about the biggest idiot ever. There was a time when cars didn't have seatbelts. If that happened to be in the 1960's and early 70's he'd have argued that a muscle car couldn't have seat belts. Safety features don't make a car not a muscle car. Grant it you can argue that they're pony cars, well the challenger is no pony car, but arguing that these aren't muscle cars because the exhaust is quieter, they have catalytic converters, and they have new safety features is about the worst argument known to mankind. If he's that picky like I said, turn of TC, and cut off the mufflers. my 6.2L V8 is 378 cubic inches and that's in the size range of the muscle cars of years past. It may handle well because of improved safety features, but dang it, this car is full of muscle, totally unnecessary muscle.

I also hate this guy's arguments that only Gen X and baby boomers want the car to relive their childhood or young adulthood. I will admit that I would love to own a 1966-1971 model year muscle car, but I personally have never ridden in one. I was born more than a decade after the historic muscle cars. I didn't buy this car because I wanted to re-live anything. I bought this car to enjoy living today! There are lots of people like me!
__________________
cab2g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 03:54 PM   #181
Revo1
Don't Like it? Suggit.
 
Revo1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 14,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by armysig View Post
I just ready anotehr article from this site, I think this guy is off his rocker.

He basicly is saying that the Camaro, Challanger, and Mustang are not Muscle cars? EH?

Camaro, Challenger and Mustang: Great Cars – But Not Muscle Cars…
"The V8s are as docile as they are powerful"?

Flaunting a narrow-minded perspective and contradicting himself. How is this guy still employed?
__________________

"Tops off, tach up baby- loud and proud!"
A Camaro lover from day one- 1996 3.8 V6 Camaro, to 1996 5.7 LT1 Camaro Z28, to the sold 2002 5.7 LS1 Camaro SS, and NOW, a [I]6.2 L99 VR 2SS/RS: XS Power stainless full exhaust, Airaid CAI, BMR drop springs and sways, custom tune by Cal Speed- 411rwhp
Revo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 03:58 PM   #182
armysig
Catch me if you can
 
armysig's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 IOM ZL-1
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,469
My first car was a 1966 GTO, tri power, 4 on the floor, posi. Yes that car had some balls and great styling, and I want another one. BUT, I wouldn't make it my daily driver and it is no where as safe as my Camaro. The Camaro has gobs more power than my GTO ever had.

This is the golden age of Horse power and muscle. The 60's and 70's were the start of it, it's now just coming into it's own. Hell, in 1966 do you ever think that GM, Ford, or MOPAR would have dreamed of putting a car on the road with 550+HP and have a safe vehicle? I say no....Not then...But now it can be done..
__________________
armysig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 04:25 PM   #183
cab2g
love. my. car.
 
cab2g's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by armysig View Post
My first car was a 1966 GTO, tri power, 4 on the floor, posi. Yes that car had some balls and great styling, and I want another one. BUT, I wouldn't make it my daily driver and it is no where as safe as my Camaro. The Camaro has gobs more power than my GTO ever had.

This is the golden age of Horse power and muscle. The 60's and 70's were the start of it, it's now just coming into it's own. Hell, in 1966 do you ever think that GM, Ford, or MOPAR would have dreamed of putting a car on the road with 550+HP and have a safe vehicle? I say no....Not then...But now it can be done..
I agree with you 100%. This is a HP golden age! I am so happy to be living in it honestly. When I was in college (HP wars were just getting started) I used to joke with my dad that he was so lucky to have been young when the muscle car era was at it's peak. Grant it he was in high school at its peak, but he was still of buying age when he could buy a lightly used Hemi Cuda for 4k.

But really I don't stop to think often enough of how lucky I am or we all are to have these HP monsters amidst all these new EPA regulations and oil price spikes! In the 70's, the HP monsters were there one year and within 2-3 years their output was cut probably 50%!!! Can you imagine buying a new car that was half as as fast as a car 2 years older than yours???? I don't think that will happen today, but these cars will be harder and harder to afford in the future. We should all be thankful that we can still buy these HP monsters new and be average joe kinds of people.

I remember the first thing my dad said when I told him how much HP my car had he said "why???" and I said "because I can" And that's why I love my muscle car so much, I can smoke the tires, I can pass anybody on the highway with ease, and I can hear that beautiful V8 idle in my own garage.
__________________
cab2g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 04:29 PM   #184
CamaroC-17
Formerly Camaroc5
 
CamaroC-17's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro LT/RS M6
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by blocky View Post
So where is this dude now? The camaro is alive and well! MORON!
Well by looking at the Staff list on that website and his name not being there....I'm guessing he got fired after the success of the New Camaro
CamaroC-17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 06:04 PM   #185
Ravirn
Account Unaccounted for
 
Ravirn's Avatar
 
Drives: Black SS
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,794
Nicely done, Scott!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
I am SIMPLY DELIGHTED BEYONE WORDS...............

............that someone dug this thread up!


A word of caution: Let's not all pile on by sending him scathing notes - that does no one any good and makes us all seem like heathens...........

That said: I just sent him a note inviting him to come and meet many of you!



Here's a copy I just sent.............


Dear Mr. Peters -

On June 21 of 2006, you wrote an article entitled "Why The New Camaro Will Fail" --

In light of your thoughts back then, I'd like to cordially invite you to attend one of two events this year . I hope you will see that rather than 'failing' - the Camaro has been a success! It's important to understand WHY it has succeeded - and WHY those who have bought one (we have many who have bought two or three!) -- or desire to buy one -- find the car so captivating.

The first event will be held April 15th and 16th at Firebird International Raceway. The name of the event? The Second Annual Camaro5Fest sponsored by www.camaro5.com. Last year, we had 585 new Camaros show up at the first event in Valdosta, GA. This year? Who knows, but I can assure you that it will surpass 585!

The second event will be held June 10 and 11 -- the "Ontario Nationals" sponsored by the Ontario Camaro Club. The location will be at the GM Assembly Plant in Oshawa, Ontario. (Tours on Friday)

I ask you to consider making a soujorn to one of these trips because I really want you to see the passion and enthusiasm these new Camaros create from their owners. Great design and engineering DOES sell cars - not everyone wants a car that is an "appliance." Moreover, you might find that people from all walks of life are buying new Camaros - and LOVING them. I've been in this business all my life - and I have never seen the level of passion and enthusiasm that these new Camaros create. (..........................did I mention that the Camaro outsold the perennial favorite - the Mustang - easily - and this with only a coupe available - no Convertible!)

So -- I do hope I'll hear from you - and I look forward to spending some time with you should you be able to attend.

Warm regards,

Scott Settlemire
__________________
WARLOCK (Black 2SSRS LS3) - A work in progress.
Ravirn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 06:17 PM   #186
The Beard
 
The Beard's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS HWSE M6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
I am SIMPLY DELIGHTED BEYONE WORDS...............

............that someone dug this thread up!


A word of caution: Let's not all pile on by sending him scathing notes - that does no one any good and makes us all seem like heathens...........

That said: I just sent him a note inviting him to come and meet many of you!



Here's a copy I just sent.............


Dear Mr. Peters -

On June 21 of 2006, you wrote an article entitled "Why The New Camaro Will Fail" --

In light of your thoughts back then, I'd like to cordially invite you to attend one of two events this year . I hope you will see that rather than 'failing' - the Camaro has been a success! It's important to understand WHY it has succeeded - and WHY those who have bought one (we have many who have bought two or three!) -- or desire to buy one -- find the car so captivating.

The first event will be held April 15th and 16th at Firebird International Raceway. The name of the event? The Second Annual Camaro5Fest sponsored by www.camaro5.com. Last year, we had 585 new Camaros show up at the first event in Valdosta, GA. This year? Who knows, but I can assure you that it will surpass 585!

The second event will be held June 10 and 11 -- the "Ontario Nationals" sponsored by the Ontario Camaro Club. The location will be at the GM Assembly Plant in Oshawa, Ontario. (Tours on Friday)

I ask you to consider making a soujorn to one of these trips because I really want you to see the passion and enthusiasm these new Camaros create from their owners. Great design and engineering DOES sell cars - not everyone wants a car that is an "appliance." Moreover, you might find that people from all walks of life are buying new Camaros - and LOVING them. I've been in this business all my life - and I have never seen the level of passion and enthusiasm that these new Camaros create. (..........................did I mention that the Camaro outsold the perennial favorite - the Mustang - easily - and this with only a coupe available - no Convertible!)

So -- I do hope I'll hear from you - and I look forward to spending some time with you should you be able to attend.

Warm regards,

Scott Settlemire
Well put sir!
__________________
The Beard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 06:23 PM   #187
nards444

 
nards444's Avatar
 
Drives: 1SS/RS Black
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New york
Posts: 2,128
Gm will never catch up to mustang in numbers sold or profit, they have always been behind. With that said I will always like a camaro better.
__________________
2010 1SS/RS Black, CGM stripes, polished Rims, Tinted windows, Hurst shifter
nards444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 06:54 PM   #188
sed34
 
Drives: a
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 113
this thread is too funny. The author was proven wrong big time.
sed34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 07:58 PM   #189
nUcLeArEnVoY
Oldbie that nobody knows
 
nUcLeArEnVoY's Avatar
 
Drives: people crazy.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Homestead, FL
Posts: 3,334
Send a message via AIM to nUcLeArEnVoY
That rant on how the three modern muscle cars aren't true muscle cars is stupid. MODERN muscle car is the emphasis, here. Family jalopies and economy cars of the 60's/70's had shite suspension, crapola drum brakes, terrible build quality, manual steering, brakes, etc., etc as well. You think Grandma Mildred's 72 Bonneville was built any better better than Uncle Wilkie's 68 Goat? Hell no. It's called advancement of technology.

Muscle cars didn't establish their identity because of their crude nature or what option list was checked, they established it for what they are: big ass V8 engines in mid to full size coupes and a not too outrageous pricetag, which the new three muscle cars have... in spades, I might add.

As for the generational thing, I'd say history repeated itself when it comes to what generation garners the most interest in this car. Yeah, lots of baby boomers sand Gen X's bought this car, sure... but I hate to say it, 80% of the Camaro club I'm in (which has over 25+ members and growing) is under 30 years of age. A vast majority of them are Gen Y, myself included. GM nabbing their targeted audience? Chh-yeah. :\
nUcLeArEnVoY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 09:40 PM   #190
Oh Wise and Esteemed One
 
Drives: Camaros
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All knowing and all seeing...
Posts: 53
well then !


Our Hero Mr. Peters has his OWN website these days-



www.i'mafreakingmoron.com


Click on it and THERE HE IS!

Oh Wise and Esteemed One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 12:37 AM   #191
dcarlos55

 
dcarlos55's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 1,035
I also would disagree with the idea that the new Camaro isn't a muscle car. It's everything they were and a whold lot that they were not.

I was a kid back then and had a bunch of the 60s muscle. 1966 GTO 3 deuce 4 spd, 1969 Roadrunner 440, 1967 Camaro SS 396 (with a transplanted L88 427), 1966 Charger (lowly 383)... Those were fun cars and he is right in his assesment that those cars were capable of getting away from you pretty quick if you weren't paying attention. They were quick and fun. But they rode like crud and were a horror to get stopped once you got them going.

All in all, I love my new 2ss. It has all the good things from the "Old time" muscle and none of the bad. If you really want a squirrly car, just turn off the TC and Stabilitrac and hold on.
__________________
My build thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224342
Go is good. Stop is better.
dcarlos55 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Popular Hotrodding article on new Camaro (+ sketches of Camaro convertible) Tran Camaro Convertible Forum 50 10-01-2010 11:25 AM
Detroit News panel wants GM to build Camaro concept Tran 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 12 03-15-2009 05:38 PM
Article: Driving the Camaro Concept Towards Production. Tran 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 1 03-04-2009 01:17 PM
ZL1 Camaro 94blackcamaroz28 Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 57 07-11-2008 12:09 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.