Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Dyno Max
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons

Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-26-2009, 12:42 PM   #26
Baldturbofreak
Turbo kit Jedi
 
Drives: 95 vette,07gxp,02wrx,slazer,
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Honeoye,NY
Posts: 44
Send a message via AIM to Baldturbofreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickss View Post
I have one major concern with any V6 mods and that would be the transmission`s. The manual 6 speed is rated at 345 ft-lbs of torque with an engine rated at 273 ft-lbs of torque and the auto`s are rated even lower than the M6, this would mean that there is about 75 ft-lbs of wiggle room before you exceed the transmission`s torque rating. So am I wrong in my logic or is there something I`m missing? To me it would seem that the trannies may be the weak link in any engine mods.
Remember, those ratings are based on a 24hr continuous cycle.
They only rate the aisin 5sp in our GXP for 260ft lbs. We have been far far over that for 20K. no issues.
Baldturbofreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 01:35 PM   #27
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickss View Post
I have one major concern with any V6 mods and that would be the transmission`s. The manual 6 speed is rated at 345 ft-lbs of torque with an engine rated at 273 ft-lbs of torque and the auto`s are rated even lower than the M6, this would mean that there is about 75 ft-lbs of wiggle room before you exceed the transmission`s torque rating. So am I wrong in my logic or is there something I`m missing? To me it would seem that the trannies may be the weak link in any engine mods.
Yes, I was thinking this same thing.

But it should hold up fine for the numbers most people will be at.
- X
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 02:59 PM   #28
jdbaker82
Banned
 
Drives: None
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanthosV6 View Post
Yes, I was thinking this same thing.

But it should hold up fine for the numbers most people will be at.
- X
You will be at 400+ HP soon though for under 7k right?
jdbaker82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 03:06 PM   #29
Xanthos
Almost-Original Postwhore
 
Xanthos's Avatar
 
Drives: Stick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 12,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbaker82 View Post
You will be at 400+ HP soon though for under 7k right?
Don't know about soon since I'm waiting till 2011 MY, but 400 hp with this car should be right about 360 ft*lbs, which is still well within an acceptable range, and doubtful to cause any failure.

The tranny in my 86 was only rated for 230 ft*lbs and it didn't fail till I was closer to 400.
- X
__________________
Xanthos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2009, 03:10 PM   #30
THE EVIL TW1N
Banned
 
Drives: 2003 Cobra Convertible
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 2,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldturbofreak View Post
Not to poo on the party, but until programming is availbile there will be ZERO increase in hp torque within 3-4 drive cycles. You may get an increase in the pull rught after the install, but the bosch will quickly learn down the increase.

The bosch med9x system is based on % torque demand from the driver.
There is a max torque and an Airmass table that dictate what cyl filling shall be. It will then adjust throttle angle ,cam timing, ignition timing in that order to achieve the closest match it can to the requested airmass table.

It is something we have been battling in the LNF camp for a few years now.
+1

The same thing would happen to the 5.0 guys (87-93) when an adjustable fuel regulator was added. Good gains on the dyno (to lean it some), but after a few cycles and the gains were gone.
THE EVIL TW1N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2009, 06:46 PM   #31
dagolfguy
 
dagolfguy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT RS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Saratoga County, New York
Posts: 172
This thing with the Bosch PCM is new info for me, perhaps also new for many of us.
It is also something that sounds like a pretty big deal; mods have no positive impact without an alteration of the tables in the unit if I'm reading this correctly. We need more info on this for sure!
dagolfguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2009, 06:49 PM   #32
patriotpa
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 02 Silverado, 09 Vue, 10 1SS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tired of apologizing when we should be kickin' butt!
Posts: 1,967
Cheapest way to boost MPG and performance is to reduce weight.
patriotpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 10:42 AM   #33
MadMaxx
Master of the V6
 
MadMaxx's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 1LT/RS
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickss View Post
I have one major concern with any V6 mods and that would be the transmission`s. The manual 6 speed is rated at 345 ft-lbs of torque with an engine rated at 273 ft-lbs of torque and the auto`s are rated even lower than the M6, this would mean that there is about 75 ft-lbs of wiggle room before you exceed the transmission`s torque rating. So am I wrong in my logic or is there something I`m missing? To me it would seem that the trannies may be the weak link in any engine mods.
The 6L50 automatic is rated @ 500nm/tq, or about 370lbs/tq flywheel with a max of 5,000lbs GVW. In reality, the holding power is probably closer to 600nm/tq given GM's history of low ratings.

The 650L is a decendent of the 4L60E, and internally pretty close in design with an upgraded pump system and larger input shaft. The 4L60 was put behind the LS1 and LS2 GTO's, which have both a similar weight and final drive as the LLT equiped camaros. The LS2 GTO was rated at 400hp and 400lbs tq at the flywheel... which is kinda funny seeing how the 4L60 is only rated at 360lbs/tq

While the transmission is a point of concern, it is for just about any production car (except a very select few, like the Vipers T56 and V160 getrag box in the supra for example).

Heat and torque kill transmissions. GM's torque management feature takes some of the "shock" between shifts by retarding the timing, so in theory the transmission will be even more resilient than the older units at the expense of some reduction in accelration. Proper cooling is a must regardless of the trans power rating -- anyone who begins to mod the auto platform needs to have a good cooler and possibly deeper pan. I'm curious to find out of the stock tranny PCM will drive the 6L80 series or not... it's not much physically biger, and already fits on the chassis. Might require a driveshaft mod though, tailshaft may be a bit longer than the 50 series...but I digress.

Dropping 100-200lbs from the 1LT/2LT cars is the name of the game first and foremost, then get into the tuning bits. I've got a sinking feeling I'll be shocked when I weigh the 20" rims this weekend

Last edited by MadMaxx; 06-30-2009 at 10:53 AM.
MadMaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #34
scrming
Red Brick of Vengeance!
 
scrming's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 Second Brick
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: at my pulpit
Posts: 7,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMaxx View Post
The 6L50 automatic is rated @ 500nm/tq, or about 370lbs/tq flywheel with a max of 5,000lbs GVW. In reality, the holding power is probably closer to 600nm/tq given GM's history of low ratings.

The 650L is a decendent of the 4L60E, and internally pretty close in design with an upgraded pump system and larger input shaft. The 4L60 was put behind the LS1 and LS2 GTO's, which have both a similar weight and final drive as the LLT equiped camaros. The LS2 GTO was rated at 400hp and 400lbs tq at the flywheel... which is kinda funny seeing how the 4L60 is only rated at 360lbs/tq

While the transmission is a point of concern, it is for just about any production car (except a very select few, like the Vipers T56 and V160 getrag box in the supra for example).

Heat and torque kill transmissions. GM's torque management feature takes some of the "shock" between shifts by retarding the timing, so in theory the transmission will be even more resilient than the older units at the expense of some reduction in accelration. Proper cooling is a must regardless of the trans power rating -- anyone who begins to mod the auto platform needs to have a good cooler and possibly deeper pan. I'm curious to find out of the stock tranny PCM will drive the 6L80 series or not... it's not much physically biger, and already fits on the chassis. Might require a driveshaft mod though, tailshaft may be a bit longer than the 50 series...but I digress.

Dropping 100-200lbs from the 1LT/2LT cars is the name of the game first and foremost, then get into the tuning bits. I've got a sinking feeling I'll be shocked when I weigh the 20" rims this weekend
Yep, i was really noticing the torque management system this weekend... Timing was going from 24 or 25 to -10! Shifts were also pretty slow...

One thing I found on my Mustang is to change the tranny fluild well before the recommend interval... And like the S197 Mustang auto, i see my new camaro doesn't have a dip stick for the tranny either...


Yeah... can't even imagine what those rear wheels/tires weigh!
scrming is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mods and warranty E-wing Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls 44 11-09-2011 11:36 PM
Anyone considering any external mods? headpunter Cosmetics and Lighting Modification Discussions 136 10-27-2008 06:46 AM
mods to get the Maro ls3 back to 436 hp Caliman93230 Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 15 10-08-2008 08:13 PM
Mods for 4th Gen.. Jeff 4th Generation Camaros 31 04-17-2008 05:20 PM
mods for 98 camaro boxmonkeyracing Off-topic Discussions 2 10-09-2006 07:17 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.