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Old 03-19-2010, 09:06 AM   #18
Canadian_Stig
 
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Agreed, it is not just GM. All cars are cheaper in the US then Canada from a Kia to a Lambo. It's the % difference in price that determines if it's worth it on a case by case basis.

I don't have an issue with the difference in price, US is a larger market, on average the CDN$ is lower then the US$ and Auto Manufacturers set their prices very few times per year often once per year which forces them to speculate on exchange rates over the upcoming year, obviously, leaning to a more profitable side of the equation for them. When the CDN$ to US$ was $.90 that 10% premium on the price of a US$ Camaro selling for $34 (for example) after exchange would be $37500, yes not $10000 difference but it's closer and not as beneficial going through all the work to import. As the CDN$ climbs above the US$ the difference just keeps increasing and the savings grow and grow. As far as I know pricing as already been announce for the Camaro for 2011, but if the CDN$ climbs above the US$ and continues there for the majority of the year, which is predicted you will likely see price adjustments in our favour for 2011.

Where the government should get involved is in situations regarding warranty, recall letters and non-competitiveness. If you look at the apa.ca site linked on a previous post, there are a number of car companies including North American companies (aka Chrysler) that do not warranty imported vehicles. So, for example, I purchase a brand new Challenger SRT8 (built in Ontario) in the US (Buffalo) and import it to Canada I lose the warranty both in Canada and US. Come on! The car's built for Canada and the US are not different enough to constitute voiding a warranty. Second, recall letters, BMW Canada (for example) some how has gotten away with saying that only recall letters from BMW Canada will be acceptable to the RIV (Registered Import Vehicle of Canada - non-profit organization) and you cannot import a vehicle without one (government rules). Unfortunately, BMW Canada does not give this recall letter for free, in fact the charge for it, and charge A LOT! Most cases a recall letter costs almost as much as the savings you would get by purchasing a BMW in the US. Which is why I'll never buy a BMW in Canada or the US EVER! Talk about anti-competitive. Unfortunately, they are having so much success other auto manufacturers are trying to do the same thing. Hence, why we recommend you get your recall letter in the US for your new Camaro instead of in Canada as GM Canada will charge you for it. Finally, sorry to make this long, anti-competitiveness by auto manufactures is ridiculous! Penalizing dealers for selling to Canadian is hugely anti-competitive. If this was allowed manufactures WOULD have to take exchange rate fluctuations into account more often which would result in more people "Buying Canadian". For example, the dealer I bought my Highlander from in the US can no longer sell directly to Canadians and have been penalized by Toyota US for selling directly to Canadians with restricted allocation for new "premium" vehicles. By removing these three items from the equation and Canada new Camaro buyer would win!

Unfortunately, as long as volume of vehicle sales in Canada far outweighs imports and ridiculous anti-competitive policies/rules as stated above continue to be allowed we will continue to pay a lot more for the same vehicle then our neighbours to the south of us.

Sorry for the long winded response.
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:01 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Stig View Post
Agreed, it is not just GM. All cars are cheaper in the US then Canada from a Kia to a Lambo. It's the % difference in price that determines if it's worth it on a case by case basis.

I don't have an issue with the difference in price, US is a larger market, on average the CDN$ is lower then the US$ and Auto Manufacturers set their prices very few times per year often once per year which forces them to speculate on exchange rates over the upcoming year, obviously, leaning to a more profitable side of the equation for them. When the CDN$ to US$ was $.90 that 10% premium on the price of a US$ Camaro selling for $34 (for example) after exchange would be $37500, yes not $10000 difference but it's closer and not as beneficial going through all the work to import. As the CDN$ climbs above the US$ the difference just keeps increasing and the savings grow and grow. As far as I know pricing as already been announce for the Camaro for 2011, but if the CDN$ climbs above the US$ and continues there for the majority of the year, which is predicted you will likely see price adjustments in our favour for 2011.

Where the government should get involved is in situations regarding warranty, recall letters and non-competitiveness. If you look at the apa.ca site linked on a previous post, there are a number of car companies including North American companies (aka Chrysler) that do not warranty imported vehicles. So, for example, I purchase a brand new Challenger SRT8 (built in Ontario) in the US (Buffalo) and import it to Canada I lose the warranty both in Canada and US. Come on! The car's built for Canada and the US are not different enough to constitute voiding a warranty. Second, recall letters, BMW Canada (for example) some how has gotten away with saying that only recall letters from BMW Canada will be acceptable to the RIV (Registered Import Vehicle of Canada - non-profit organization) and you cannot import a vehicle without one (government rules). Unfortunately, BMW Canada does not give this recall letter for free, in fact the charge for it, and charge A LOT! Most cases a recall letter costs almost as much as the savings you would get by purchasing a BMW in the US. Which is why I'll never buy a BMW in Canada or the US EVER! Talk about anti-competitive. Unfortunately, they are having so much success other auto manufacturers are trying to do the same thing. Hence, why we recommend you get your recall letter in the US for your new Camaro instead of in Canada as GM Canada will charge you for it. Finally, sorry to make this long, anti-competitiveness by auto manufactures is ridiculous! Penalizing dealers for selling to Canadian is hugely anti-competitive. If this was allowed manufactures WOULD have to take exchange rate fluctuations into account more often which would result in more people "Buying Canadian". For example, the dealer I bought my Highlander from in the US can no longer sell directly to Canadians and have been penalized by Toyota US for selling directly to Canadians with restricted allocation for new "premium" vehicles. By removing these three items from the equation and Canada new Camaro buyer would win!

Unfortunately, as long as volume of vehicle sales in Canada far outweighs imports and ridiculous anti-competitive policies/rules as stated above continue to be allowed we will continue to pay a lot more for the same vehicle then our neighbours to the south of us.

Sorry for the long winded response.

Thankyou for the very informative post.

There should be a rollback in price in Canada for 2011 with the expected par dollar, at least common sense says so.
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:38 PM   #20
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I'm seriously thinking about doing this in the summer. I want to get a buddy of mine in Oregon to help me out. Does their no sales tax apply to cars too? Since Oregon is only 7 hours away from Vancouver, do people in Vancouver drive the extra few hours to have 0 state sales tax? Does anyone have an opinion on this?
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Old 03-21-2010, 04:12 PM   #21
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Does their no sales tax apply to cars too?
No, you only pay sales tax when you bring the car into Canada.
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:38 PM   #22
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I'm seriously thinking about doing this in the summer. I want to get a buddy of mine in Oregon to help me out. Does their no sales tax apply to cars too? Since Oregon is only 7 hours away from Vancouver, do people in Vancouver drive the extra few hours to have 0 state sales tax? Does anyone have an opinion on this?
Your friend could buy the car and would NOT pay sales tax....He could then 'sell' it to you. You would pay GST at the border and then pay PST when you register the car.
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Old 03-21-2010, 07:40 PM   #23
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Wow. That sounds so tempting. Only thing is I'd have to get him to get Oregon insurance on the car for the day he owns it, right?
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:19 PM   #24
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..... don't even have to do that. YOU need to buy an 'insurance binder' here fromIACBC.....Cost about $130 FOR A WEEK.....so you can drive it home.

He just buys it from a dealer....then signs the title over to you....BUT.....don't let the dealer know...they are not allowed to sell if they know the car it is being exported.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:20 PM   #25
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Oh wow. But won't they know something is up if I'm not getting insurance from them right away? LIke if my friend doesn't get Oregon insurance? When I bought my car new the insurance department was in the dealership....
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:26 PM   #26
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I guess you could just buy a one day permit from the dealership insurance people. Tell them you are just driving it home for the day.

Then he signs the title to you and you have the insurance binder. Make sure you do all your reading on the process but it really is not a big deal.

If I were you....I'd suggest you try and find a used one....save some money on depreciation. Then you can buy it anywhere.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:28 PM   #27
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Ah, I see. That makes sense. I'm not sure how much cheaper used ones are right now... the ones I've seen are barely any cheaper because it's still the current model year. Besides, with a car like this it's hard to tell how much abuse there's been...
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:21 AM   #28
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Having a friend who is willing to purchase the vehicle in the US for you is very fortunate, especially if he lives in a sales tax free state, which Oregon is. What that means is you do avoid the state taxes, however, there still could be other "taxes" payable when the vehicle is registered in the US prior to you shipping it to Canada.

However, I did a quick search for you and you a very fortunate to have someone you know who lives in Oregon as it is the lowest state when it comes to the cost of purchasing and registering a vehicle in the US. See article here.

Another benefit of your friend living the US and in Oregon, is he, and as a benefited result, you have the ability to purchase a car anywhere in the US and using his information, he can register the car for you in Oregon for less then a couple hundred dollars. Once the vehicle is paid for, the original copy of the title would be shipped to your friend in Oregon and you (through him) can arrange the vehicle shipped up to the closest US shipping address near the Washington/Vancouver boarder. As the vehicle is being shipped, he signs and UPSs the original title to you. Once you receive it, you fax it down to your nearest US boarder office, 3 days prior to picking up the vehicle. Once the vehicle arrives at the destination, you call your insurance company and put insurance on the vehicle, provide VIN# then drive (with a friend), walk or take the bus to the receiving destination and drive your brand new Camaro to the boarder. At the boarder to take the original copy of the title into the boarder office to get it "stamped" for export. Once the title is stamped drive across the boarder and declare the vehicle for import. At this point you will pay the GST + A/C tax and they will give you a import form. You go home, fill out the info at RIV.ca site and pay their $196 fee and they send you another import form (Form 2). You take this form with the vehicle to Canadian Tire, they check out the car, fill out the Form 2 (which they fax back to RIV) and you take your form 2 with the Bill of sale to your local ICBC office. Pay your PST, licensing and registration fees. Buy a new 2010 Olympic plate. :-) Then drive the crap out of your new Camaro! About 3 weeks later you will get a sticker in the mail from RIV, which you affix to the side of you door sill.

You a very lucky to have someone in a true non-sales tax state who can register the car for you. Think he'd be willing to buy two? I'm actually surprised, someone in these non-tax states haven't made a business out of helping CDNs buy vehicles through them. Even if you gave them a $1000 to register the car for you, you'd still save a bundle and it allows you to basically buy "new off the lot".
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:07 AM   #29
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Wow, thanks for the information!

I wonder how much I actually save. The difference between MSRP is what I'm thinking so far which is like $8000 for a 2SS. I'd have to pay $196 in RIV and factor in time to go down to the states. I'd probably want to buy it in Oregon so I can test drive it with my friend to make sure nothing's wrong with it and all that. That way I can have the title in person right? The only annoying thing is the 3-day fax and wait. I guess I can fax it from Oregon and wait 3 days? Is there any way to confirm that the US border office has in fact received it? What do you think of this procedure:

- Agree on Camaro I want through friend, get VIN
- Get ICBC Insurance Binder (enough for drive down, 3 day wait, and back up?)
- Drive (with friend?) to Oregon to pick up car (and of course say hi to my friend)
- Fax title to US border office, wait 3 days, confirm received.
- Drive back through border and go through the process written above
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:44 PM   #30
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Wow, thanks for the information!

I wonder how much I actually save. The difference between MSRP is what I'm thinking so far which is like $8000 for a 2SS. I'd have to pay $196 in RIV and factor in time to go down to the states. I'd probably want to buy it in Oregon so I can test drive it with my friend to make sure nothing's wrong with it and all that. That way I can have the title in person right? The only annoying thing is the 3-day fax and wait. I guess I can fax it from Oregon and wait 3 days? Is there any way to confirm that the US border office has in fact received it? What do you think of this procedure:

- Agree on Camaro I want through friend, get VIN
- Get ICBC Insurance Binder (enough for drive down, 3 day wait, and back up?)
- Drive (with friend?) to Oregon to pick up car (and of course say hi to my friend)
- Fax title to US border office, wait 3 days, confirm received.
- Drive back through border and go through the process written above
Thats it exactly....perhaps consider flying to Oregon. Possibly cheaper then driving there and back. When you fax the US border you can call then or send them an email to confirn they got the fax.

Some extra cost to consider is buying it in Oregon versus buying anywhere else in the State. If you buy it in Orgeon the shipping charges to the dealer will be included in th epurchase price from the dealer. if you buy it elsewhere you will then have to ship or drive it from there. As long as you find an Oregon dealer that gives you fair price..I'd do that.

I'm seriously looking for a used one in the States right now. I'm going to have the car significantly modified so I'm looking for a high mlileage car.
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:32 PM   #31
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Your welcome! Anything to help a fellow Canadian get a new Camaro.

How much you can save? Yes, depending on options it seems "on par" savings for a 2SS is between 8 - 10 thousand. Your realized savings is likely to be lower then this number for a few reasons. When I do my calculations I assume the savings I can find on a US vehicle I can find here, therefore, if you find $2000 off MSRP in the US, you can find an equivalent discount in Canada. Assuming, you were buying in Canada you would likely purchase the vehicle near where you live. Therefore, it'll cost you x amount to pick up the car in Oregon and/or ship the car to the Vancouver boarder. This amount is deducted from your savings. All the vehicles I've imported, see my first post, the savings are after all costs associated including transport, travel costs, taxes and licensing. Average costs I've occurred importing (flights, buses, fuel, vehicle transport, etc) are around $600 (most expensive was the RX-8 @ $1100 because it was shipped up from Florida to Buffalo).

Traveling to Oregon and test driving the vehicle first is definitely "your call" personally, I test drive the vehicle here in Canada and once I've decided to make the purchase I just look for what I want at the best price. The way I see it, it's similar to all those Camaro pre-orderers who put deposits down on the Camaro without ever previously driving it. All vehicles myself or family members have purchased were done so without ever seeing the vehicle in person, the only one purchased new off the lot was the Highlander and it had 1 mile on it when I picked it up. None of the vehicles imported "used" have had any problems. "knock on wood"

Yes, if you can crash at your friends place for a few days you can fax it from Oregon to the US boarder office. It just has to be there 72 hours in advance of importing. Your friend can fax it for you as well. Yes, you can call the US boarder office that you are driving through to confirm they have received the fax. My brother did for his RX-8, I didn't for any of my vehicles I just kept a copy of the fax receipt with the date and time stamped on it but they always had the fax copy.

Yep, you got it! Once you have the VIN call you insurance company and add it to your policy. My insurance company doesn't care where the car is coming from and when they ask for value I just give them the CDN$ price of the US vehicle after conversion to CDN$ obviously, you can use the price you would have paid had you purchased the car in Canada.

When I imported my first vehicle I actually took a bus to Niagara Falls and walked across the boarder. The guy who sold me the car met me across the boarder then drove me to the US customs office, where he gave me the keys and I drove home and he got a ride back with his father in-law. Nothing like walking across a bridge over Niagara falls in February and the boarder guard asking "Why are you entering the US" and my response, "Going to buy car". Needless to say, for a moment she was a little confused. The "process" is a lot easier then your led to believe.
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:13 PM   #32
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I see. Thanks for the informative posts guys.

Canadian_Stig, you mentioned that you can get the same discounts here as you do in the states... Is that really true? I remember when I got my Honda new dealers barely sold it for MSRP - a lot of them would have tons of markups, pretty much like how it is now with the new Camaro. I've spoken with a few dealerships in Vancouver so far and all of them think it's a treat to not be selling it to me with a $1K markup. There are a few import companies selling US imported camaros for as much as Canadian MSRP!! I spoke with a few Oregon dealers and they were willing to sell it way below MSRP (there were a few dealers on these forums that were willing to sell below whatever their cost is called just to get quantity). If I bring something like that up to a dealer here, they'd think I was mad. What are you guys' opinions on this?
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:17 PM   #33
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Also....does anyone know when they set pricing? I wonder if for the 2011 cars they adjust the pricing for the dollar?
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:03 PM   #34
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If anything won't US prices go up because of the changing exchange rate (instead of CAN prices going down)? I mean the cars are built here right...
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