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Old 03-13-2010, 09:20 PM   #1
SS Drifter
 
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Neeed Alarm Recommendation

Ok, I'm thinking about an alarm system and I'd like to hear recommendations from people with experience installing their own or professional installers. I do all my own electrical work so I'm not looking for a shop.

Here's what I want:
1. Arm/Disarm with GM key FOB (or a just remote arm/disarm input)
2. Minimal connections to the stock harness
3. Optional inputs (for gas door, etc.)
4. Optional alarm event outputs (for strobe lights or whatever)
5. Remote signaling would be nice (1-way or 2-way)

What I don't want:
1. Must use the alarm remote to arm/disarm
2. Remote start capability (the stock remote works great)
3. Remote windows, lights, etc. (that's just more connections to the harness)


Any suggestions?
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:05 AM   #2
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good luck with that one, first off I dont know of a single company out that makes an alarm that would arms and disarms with the factory fob.
2nd, if they did there would no way to have it 2-way since your factory fob is not 2 way,
.
Why are you so set on using the factory fob?

If you dont want to carry around another thing hanging off the keychain then I would go with Viper, and get your self either a blackberry or Iphone and get the app for it that lets you have a full security, remote start keyless all off of your phone.

Also you say you do all your own electrical, A full alarm, keyless, remote start, I did one on my car with a viper, it is 22 electrical connections, and it took me 5 hours to do and I do this for a living every day. You have to go directly to the cars BCM, have to take out the gauge cluster, I did window roll up module so I had to go into each door and rewire the switches. Not to inclued haveing to go under the hood for pin switch.

I highly dont recommend doing these on your own, find a good shop that sells viper, clifford, python they have life time warranty on product and if you find a good shop they should offer a life time warranty on labor as well.

Last edited by strauchpete; 03-14-2010 at 12:09 AM. Reason: adding more
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by strauchpete View Post
good luck with that one, first off I dont know of a single company out that makes an alarm that would arms and disarms with the factory fob.
2nd, if they did there would no way to have it 2-way since your factory fob is not 2 way,
.
Why are you so set on using the factory fob?

If you dont want to carry around another thing hanging off the keychain then I would go with Viper, and get your self either a blackberry or Iphone and get the app for it that lets you have a full security, remote start keyless all off of your phone.

Also you say you do all your own electrical, A full alarm, keyless, remote start, I did one on my car with a viper, it is 22 electrical connections, and it took me 5 hours to do and I do this for a living every day. You have to go directly to the cars BCM, have to take out the gauge cluster, I did window roll up module so I had to go into each door and rewire the switches. Not to inclued haveing to go under the hood for pin switch.

I highly dont recommend doing these on your own, find a good shop that sells viper, clifford, python they have life time warranty on product and if you find a good shop they should offer a life time warranty on labor as well.
Thanks for your reply. I have no intention of attempting to use the factory FOB as a 2-way. However, the FOB receiver should provide a signal that could be used to enable or disable an alarm for basic use. Also, I think the security build into the FOB and BCM is probably better than anything that's available in an after market unit as far preventing someone from starting the car.

I do want the choice of just carrying the FOB and the after market remote. As an example when staying in a hotel the remote signals a alarm situation, maybe what I need is more of a pager. The cellular idea sounds cool as long as there is cell service.

Apparently, the Viper doesn't fit the bill if it requires 22 wiring harness connections to function. I don't want the alarm to take over the car, just basic protection like glass breakage, courtesy lamp monitor and a couple of user configurable in/out circuits. If a unit provides the basic functionality that I need and its possible to bypass the circuits that I don't need then I can make it work.

On doing the work myself, I've had the instrument cluster out already for another project. The cluster trim ring was a pain but otherwise no big deal. The wiring of this project does not intimate me and no big deal if it takes a couple of weekends.

Last edited by SS Drifter; 03-14-2010 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 03-14-2010, 02:01 PM   #4
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Directed electronics is the #1 world leader in remote starts and alarms, if you want the best and most secure that is the way to go.

Reason why factory fob will not work is because the FCC give each company a set Freq band that they can use, companies cant over lap or go out of that because of security, and just think how much stuff uses radio or RF freq.

As for the wiring,
Remote start side,

You need to power up all ing and acc wires - 5 wires in total.
Factory PATs for factory immobilizer - 3 wires
Break wire - 1 wire
Power - 3 wires
Ground - 1 wire

That is a total of 13 wires for the remote start
NO MATTER WHAT COMPANY YOU GO WITH THIS WILL BE A MUST!!!!

Keyless
Factory arm - 1 wire
Factory disarm - 1 wire
Factory lock - 1 wire
Factory unlock - 1wire
Factory keysence - 1wire
Total 5 wires
THIS IS A MUST FOR KEYLESS ENTRY

Security
Door triger - 2 wires or the cheaper way dome light 1 wire
Trunk triger - 1 wire
hood triger - 1 wire
Total of 4 wires

So as you can see if you want full keyless, remote start, and security pretty much no matter what company you go with you will need to do alot of wiring.
This is wiring that no matter what company you go with you will need to do for a proper integration into your car.
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Old 03-14-2010, 03:35 PM   #5
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Thanks again. I think your missing my point though. The car already has remote start, keyless entry and remote truck release. I don't want to duplicate those features.

A passive alarm that enables and disables with the FOB remote door locks is all I need. Basically, I want it monitor and and provide a couple of spare I/Os for my own mods. A radio paging system would be nice but if that not available I can build my own.

It seems like the new car alarms are trying to control too many features. Just want a strobe, internal siren and maybe a remote signalling. If someone wants to steal my car an alarm will not stop them. My goal is to deter the guys that break a window to grab a gadget or try to steal my gas or wheels.

If you can recommend a good basic unit I'm all ears.
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Old 03-14-2010, 03:59 PM   #6
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You do know you can just add on to the factory alarm.

You want a tilt sensor? Just buy http://www.viper.com/P-507M/Digital-Tilt-Motion-Sensor and hook it up to the factory alarm.

Want a glass break sensor? Buy http://www.viper.com/P-506T/Audio-Glass-Break-Sensor and hook it up to the factory alarm.

From what you are describing, you are not wanting a complete alarm system, just the accessories which all can be wired into the factory unit.

Oh an fyi, the gas tube is anti-syphon. The only way to get gas out of the tank is to remove the tank or punch holes in it.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mr_Draco View Post
You do know you can just add on to the factory alarm.

You want a tilt sensor? Just buy http://www.viper.com/P-507M/Digital-Tilt-Motion-Sensor and hook it up to the factory alarm.

Want a glass break sensor? Buy http://www.viper.com/P-506T/Audio-Glass-Break-Sensor and hook it up to the factory alarm.

From what you are describing, you are not wanting a complete alarm system, just the accessories which all can be wired into the factory unit.

Oh an fyi, the gas tube is anti-syphon. The only way to get gas out of the tank is to remove the tank or punch holes in it.
The glass break and tilt sensor is only for adding on to a viper or aftermarket alarm. You can't just add those on to the factory PATS system.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by strauchpete View Post
The glass break and tilt sensor is only for adding on to a viper or aftermarket alarm. You can't just add those on to the factory PATS system.
Oh really? Then why is it done all the time? Why was there quite a few threads on this last year from people doing the same thing? Why is that the most of the work my local installer gets is from people adding accessories like that to their factory alarm?

Sorry bud but yes they can be added on.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SS Drifter View Post
Thanks again. I think your missing my point though. The car already has remote start, keyless entry and remote truck release. I don't want to duplicate those features.

A passive alarm that enables and disables with the FOB remote door locks is all I need. Basically, I want it monitor and and provide a couple of spare I/Os for my own mods. A radio paging system would be nice but if that not available I can build my own.

It seems like the new car alarms are trying to control too many features. Just want a strobe, internal siren and maybe a remote signalling. If someone wants to steal my car an alarm will not stop them. My goal is to deter the guys that break a window to grab a gadget or try to steal my gas or wheels.

If you can recommend a good basic unit I'm all ears.

Well if that is all you are wanting you can tie the aftermarket alarm into the door lock circuit of the factory remote lock interface. BUT BUT BUT if someone does break into your car all they would have to do to turn off the alarm is to hit the unlock button on the door. That would be the easiest way to do what you are wanting, but it would give some extra protection with out going to in depth into the cars electrical.

OR

Wait about 6 months and Viper is coming out with an interface that works via the cars CAN wiring, pretty much it wires into the cars OBD data port wire and it will do all doors, hood, trunk, heated seats, rear defrost, disarm, arm, lock, unlock, driver door priority, PATS bypass, dome light, and pretty much everything via data. It will work just like onstar does just via a remote.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:24 PM   #10
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Oh really? Then why is it done all the time? Why was there quite a few threads on this last year from people doing the same thing? Why is that the most of the work my local installer gets is from people adding accessories like that to their factory alarm?

Sorry bud but yes they can be added on.
IF you just add those directly on to the cars system there is no way for the cars BCM to know what it is for. You have to add on a controller box, that connects into the cars OBD port wiring to transfer the information from the cars system to to the aftermarket addons.

And if you are so sure about it tell me where you are going to wire in to glass break sensor momentary out put, warn away and full trigger?

I have all ready contacted viper about trying that with those parts there is NO way to do it with out a controller box that communicates with the car.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:27 PM   #11
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Oh really? Then why is it done all the time? Why was there quite a few threads on this last year from people doing the same thing? Why is that the most of the work my local installer gets is from people adding accessories like that to their factory alarm?

Sorry bud but yes they can be added on.
You show me on here where someone has directly addon on a glass break or tilt sensor, with no other parts to a factory PATS system on a 2010 camaro. Because I have contacted viper before about this and they said there is no way to do it with out other pieces.

And please give me the name and phone of the local shop that is doing this because I will bet my 10 years of doing this that he is not just putting a glass break sensor directly on to the cars factory system.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:38 PM   #12
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Factory alarm score - I (for incomplete)

The factory remote start works great. I've used it to 200 feet with a clear view of the car, much less if operating through buildings. I doubt that an aftermarket remote start will work any better.

As disappointing as the factory alarm is, I will not opt for an aftermarket alarm until someone makes a kit that doesn't require butchery of the wiring harnesses. I don't like the crimp lock wire taps they damage wire strands. Unfortately, this seems to be the normal method of installation.
Also did looking, really from your quote here at least at my shop, WE Never use crimp locks, wire taps, or anything like that.
So if your local shop is then he is a hack. I mean I under stand why you would not want alot of connections into your car but any good alarm and good shop should give you a life time warranty on both product and labor. My shop does.

ANY alarm should be install with military connection and solder. Also 200 feet way for a remote start line of site is horrible, most all good remote starts will be 2000feet and if you get the good ones they are 1 mile or even any place on the planet. My last truck that got wrecked I started mine from over 200 miles away from it.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:08 AM   #13
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Oh wow, I feel a bit overwhemed with responses Mr Draco was pretty close on what I need, a factory alarm plus a couple of features. Unfortunately, the dealer wanted another $500 for the factory alarm and I told them they could keep it.

Strauchpete, I'm happy to hear that you make proper connections. I don't doubt that you know your stuff. If I was confident that most shops did not use t-taps I'd go for a bike ride while someone installs the alarm for me. Truth is I'm been burned time and time again by people working on my stuff and doing crappy work. At least if I do my own work I know what to expect. If I'm not sure what I'm doing then I'll educate myself before proceeding.

So I didn't post to butt heads but, rather just to learn whats out there. The online descriptions of alarms systems are weak, mostly sales pitch stuff. That new Viper bus based system sounds interesting and it may very well be worth waiting for. I'll keep an eye out for it. Hopefully they will make an adapter jack so you can just plug into the buss with no splicing Thanks for that tip!

On that note, I think I have the information that I need for now. Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:06 PM   #14
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ok man I didnt mean to sound like an ass but when you have been in this industry for a while like I have, you get alot of people who think they are experts. By all means there is no one person that knows all about the different parts that make up car audio and performance. Me personally I have dedicated my self to be all about factory integration, my shop was the first shop to do a full alarm on the 2008 maxima put button start, we helped R&D with viper to make it work with everything.

I do understand that most shops that do this kind of work are hacks to say the least, I mean. So if you are wanting to tackle this on your own PM me and I will give you all the info for locations and wire colors pin configs that you need.

It is not a difficult thing to do as long as you take your time and just dont get in a rush, I mean your car is probably your 2nd most expensive thing you own why would you want to do a crap job on it.

So best of luck to you and ya I would wait for the DEI piece that will be all canbus.
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:56 PM   #15
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Quote:

Wait about 6 months and Viper is coming out with an interface that works via the cars CAN wiring, pretty much it wires into the cars OBD data port wire and it will do all doors, hood, trunk, heated seats, rear defrost, disarm, arm, lock, unlock, driver door priority, PATS bypass, dome light, and pretty much everything via data. It will work just like onstar does just via a remote.
where did u hear about this from sounds real nice
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:10 AM   #16
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where did u hear about this from sounds real nice
Im a retailer for Directed they own Viper I talked with the tech guys about it about a week ago.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:13 AM   #17
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There is this one but I dont like that company that much so I am waiting on the DEI one.
http://store.idatalink.com/index.php...ct_detail&p=20

It only works for the V6 so far from what I can tell.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:55 AM   #18
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ok man I didnt mean to sound like an ass but when you have been in this industry for a while like I have, you get alot of people who think they are experts. By all means there is no one person that knows all about the different parts that make up car audio and performance. Me personally I have dedicated my self to be all about factory integration, my shop was the first shop to do a full alarm on the 2008 maxima put button start, we helped R&D with viper to make it work with everything.

I do understand that most shops that do this kind of work are hacks to say the least, I mean. So if you are wanting to tackle this on your own PM me and I will give you all the info for locations and wire colors pin configs that you need.

It is not a difficult thing to do as long as you take your time and just dont get in a rush, I mean your car is probably your 2nd most expensive thing you own why would you want to do a crap job on it.

So best of luck to you and ya I would wait for the DEI piece that will be all canbus.
No worries, your just passionate about what you do. The world needs more people that take pride in their work! I'll take your advice and wait for the DEI. I need a little time to recover the bank account from a busy upgrade schedule anyway. Also want to start planning a carputer so there's little risk of running out of projects.

It seems like GM threw a few new kinks in the CAN so I hope Viper can stay on track with this new product. It's always nice to have a few options other than what the factory deems is best for you.
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:25 PM   #19
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I ordered a computer for the car from mp3car.com should be here in about a week!!!
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:16 AM   #20
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Cool! I've been poking around that site. What PC and touch screen did you order and what OS will you run?

I want to run Linux and dual boot into XP only for data logging, tuning, etc. I like the "free" aspect of open source programs and I'm real happy with Linux on the netbook. There are several home theater type programs for this OS but not sure whats available for mobile applications. It will probably be a another couple months before I start buying hardware so there's still time to think this one through.
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:25 PM   #21
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DEI just released a module for factory over ride, for alarms.
its called the canmax400, you can add an after market alarm with control via factory fob.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:42 AM   #22
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I freaking love my new alarm. Yes i have a 6spd LS3 and Yes i do have remote start. its incredible the alarm is the Clifford 590.2x I will try to have a video to you soon.
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