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Old 06-03-2011, 09:57 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by gahammerle View Post
I might be interested in a group buy. Still up in the air on my next upgrade: brakes, suspension, or wheels/tires.
Foundation, foundation and foundation.

The CTS-V brake upgrade is awesome. It puts much higher loads on the OE hydraulically filled radius bushes. The hydraulic bush is there to minimise NVH and not performance. What back when, GM was building a Camaro GS race car prototype that showed at SEMA 2009.




Before they did intense track testing, GM asked Pedders to build a set of urethane radius bushes. They did not want to overload the hydraulically filled bushes with a highly modified car. As you upgrade your Camaro you always want to maintain balance between components. With a big brake kit we should be installing either the full replacement urethane bus (EP6577) or the small snubber (EP6578) or the large snubber (EP6579). All three will reduce movement under braking loads and all three will reduce caster changes under all driving conditions.

The harder you drive with your new CTS-V brakes, the more benefit you'll derive from sub-frame inserts or bushes. Sub-frame and radius bush inserts are the foundation of ALL 5th Gen modifications. With your foundation ins place your CTS-V brake upgrade will perform better.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:06 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Foundation, foundation and foundation.

The CTS-V brake upgrade is awesome. It puts much higher loads on the OE hydraulically filled radius bushes. The hydraulic bush is there to minimise NVH and not performance. What back when, GM was building a Camaro GS race car prototype that showed at SEMA 2009.




Before they did intense track testing, GM asked Pedders to build a set of urethane radius bushes. They did not want to overload the hydraulically filled bushes with a highly modified car. As you upgrade your Camaro you always want to maintain balance between components. With a big brake kit we should be installing either the full replacement urethane bus (EP6577) or the small snubber (EP6578) or the large snubber (EP6579). All three will reduce movement under braking loads and all three will reduce caster changes under all driving conditions.

The harder you drive with your new CTS-V brakes, the more benefit you'll derive from sub-frame inserts or bushes. Sub-frame and radius bush inserts are the foundation of ALL 5th Gen modifications. With your foundation ins place your CTS-V brake upgrade will perform better.
Thank you for all the great advice.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:23 AM   #227
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Every mod you do, weather it is engine, drive train, brakes, tires, wheels, suspension benefit and will work more affectively if you address the foundation first.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:54 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Foundation, foundation and foundation.

The CTS-V brake upgrade is awesome. It puts much higher loads on the OE hydraulically filled radius bushes. The hydraulic bush is there to minimise NVH and not performance. What back when, GM was building a Camaro GS race car prototype that showed at SEMA 2009.

Before they did intense track testing, GM asked Pedders to build a set of urethane radius bushes. They did not want to overload the hydraulically filled bushes with a highly modified car. As you upgrade your Camaro you always want to maintain balance between components. With a big brake kit we should be installing either the full replacement urethane bus (EP6577) or the small snubber (EP6578) or the large snubber (EP6579). All three will reduce movement under braking loads and all three will reduce caster changes under all driving conditions.

The harder you drive with your new CTS-V brakes, the more benefit you'll derive from sub-frame inserts or bushes. Sub-frame and radius bush inserts are the foundation of ALL 5th Gen modifications. With your foundation ins place your CTS-V brake upgrade will perform better.
I'm all for better bushings for many reasons, but this claim (emphasis added in red above) is ridiculous! Unless there is a significant tire change (like racing slicks), the braking loads will be nearly the same or perhaps only slightly increased. The laws of physics are not impressed by larger calipers and a "V" logo. Besides, the CTS-V calipers don't provide any more clamping force anyway.

There are benefits to the larger pad area and better thermal management properties of the CTS-V Brembos vs. the SS Brembos -- for sure!! But let's not get ourselves crazy here. For one thing, the CTS-V rotors are far from state-of-the-art. They are just not very special compared to actual 2-piece floating rotors, other than they are certain to be quieter (no rattling) for the duration of their life, which is why Brembo did these for GM.

Regardless, it is a very good idea to get your bushings upgraded ASAP!
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:29 PM   #229
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If you drive you CTS-V brake equipped Camaro exactly the same as you drive your bone stock Camaro there will be no additional load and Chris-B would be correct. Most people, including GM with their GS project, modify their Camaros to increase the level of performance and drive them harder. As I have written hundreds of times, keeping your car in balance is mission critical. We recommend inserts or bush radius bush replacement for a bone stock Camaro. The recommendation becomes stronger with the CTS-V upgrade because you will be pushing the car and all the components harder.

The GS is running on 18 slicks. It is a purpose built race car. The performance of the GS is ridiculous. The full bush is a purely Pedders design. The design for the snubbers (EP6578 and EP6579) came directly out the the GS program. They were intended for GM use until there were changes at GM racing. Check out the video to see how the rubber of the radius bush slides into the steel sleeve. The concern with more intense track use is the fluid will leak and or the rubber will slide out. To be clear this is not a concern in daily driving or with the 5th Gen in stock trim.



Aside from track concerns, the hydraulic design of the radius bush, the compression in daily driving, allows a wider range of caster changes than desired. With or without the brake upgrade, the EP6578 snubber is in order. A pad change to Cobalt friction XR1 front and XR3 rear makes a significant difference in braking performance. Brembo offers a GMPP two piece rotor for the front of the CTS-V which fits perfectly on the Camaro with the CTS-V front caliper. Combine the two piece rotors with Cobalt friction pads, the CTS-V front calipers and either the EP6579 full face insert or EP6577 full bush and you have a RIDICULOUS braking package.

Note: Pedders USA, LLC has no financial interest in the CTS-V upgrade. We provided the information in the thread for the benefit of the Camaro5 community. Pedders USA, LLC has no financial interest in Brembo or Cobalt Friction although we do use their products at our own expense.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:28 PM   #230
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I am talking with a couple of vendors right now. And so far the pricing minus shipping is less than the link for Pace.

How many people would be interested in a group buy?
If you want to set something up, I've sold a few of these kits and would be happy to give you a PRICE. I've sold individual kits for less then $1,400 delivered to customers doors.

Last edited by RichieRichZ06; 06-17-2011 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:23 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by RichieRichZ06 View Post
If you want to set something up, I've sold a few of these kits and would be happy to give you a Group Price. I've sold individual kits for less then $1,400 delivered to customers doors. A GP would reduce that amount.

Shoot me a PM and we can chat.
PM sent
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:47 AM   #232
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Hey guys, just wondering if anyone knows the specs of these 09-11 CTS-V rotors

Diameter: 15" or 14.75" (380mm or 370mm)
Thickness: 32mm?
Height: height of the rotor+hat

Thank you!

Last edited by jai; 06-22-2011 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:49 AM   #233
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folks, i just realised a gotchya about using ctsv rear calipers on the G8 and camaro. i have 2011 black diamond editions

so on the ctsv the calipers are mounted on the front of the axel centerline, whereas on the g8 they are to the rear of the centerline. this simple rotation of 90 degrees backwards means the small/large piston order changes, meaning the smaller piston that is meant to apply pressure to the pad "first" is now last. i dont know how critical this is but you may be able to swap the pistons around easily enough before installing them if the piston bores are the same. because the camaro caliper location is the same as g8 you wont find this issue if retrofitting camaro calipers on the g8. i might take mine to a brake specialist for advice as i am fitting to a g8.
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:45 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by jai View Post
folks, i just realised a gotchya about using ctsv rear calipers on the G8 and camaro. i have 2011 black diamond editions

so on the ctsv the calipers are mounted on the front of the axel centerline, whereas on the g8 they are to the rear of the centerline. this simple rotation of 90 degrees backwards means the small/large piston order changes, meaning the smaller piston that is meant to apply pressure to the pad "first" is now last. i dont know how critical this is but you may be able to swap the pistons around easily enough before installing them if the piston bores are the same. because the camaro caliper location is the same as g8 you wont find this issue if retrofitting camaro calipers on the g8. i might take mine to a brake specialist for advice as i am fitting to a g8.
Try swapping the calipers back to the correct side they were removed from.....
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:02 PM   #235
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Try swapping the calipers back to the correct side they were removed from.....
My calipers are brand new. The Brembo castings are identical between left and right on these calipers (unlike the fronts), so the difference in piston size is accomodated by different sized seals.

On the ctsv the small piston is at the opposite end of the caliper to the fluid transfer pipe, which must face down. So because the caliper is forward of the axel line this works - pipe is at the bottom and the small piston is first in line for the rotor rotation. Now look at moving this caliper back on the camaro and in keeping the fluid transfer pipe at the bottom all of a sudden the small piston is now at the top of the equation and second in line to the bigger piston.

So when you compare a left and right caliper side by side they're mirrored, bleeders and transfer pipe at opposite ends, and the pistons are mirrored. So this is why I believe the pistons could be easily swapped because the caliper bodies are the same part number from left to right.
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:05 PM   #236
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My calipers are brand new. The Brembo castings are identical between left and right on these calipers (unlike the fronts), so the difference in piston size is accomodated by different sized seals.

On the ctsv the small piston is at the opposite end of the caliper to the fluid transfer pipe, which must face down. So because the caliper is forward of the axel line this works - pipe is at the bottom and the small piston is first in line for the rotor rotation. Now look at moving this caliper back on the camaro and in keeping the fluid transfer pipe at the bottom all of a sudden the small piston is now at the top of the equation and second in line to the bigger piston.

So when you compare a left and right caliper side by side they're mirrored, bleeders and transfer pipe at opposite ends, and the pistons are mirrored. So this is why I believe the pistons could be easily swapped because the caliper bodies are the same part number from left to right.
On most Brembo calipers, the line and the bleeder can be interchanged... just swap the line for the bleeder and put the caliper on the other side.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:10 AM   #237
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Would you be able to run the CTS-V 6 pistons and rotors on all four corners? Just curious
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:59 AM   #238
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Would you be able to run the CTS-V 6 pistons and rotors on all four corners? Just curious
You would probably need to use a bias valve to tone down the rears for braking balance so... There would be no point to running them.
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