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Old 05-26-2010, 11:18 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
I agree completely. Drivers have a way of making cars that have no business performing the same do just that.

Of course, none of us can see the future, but it's always hard to hit a moving target. I imagine GM has a number in mind for the Z28 and is engineering everything to meet that goal. We can only hope they are not targeting the 2011 GT500, however, as I'm sure Ford is well aware that the Z28 is coming and is not likely to simply roll over and let the Z28 take the top spot in the ponycar segment without a fight.

We shall see and, as consumers, we will all be the better for it.
If this war keeps up the Mustang GT and SS will both probably be at 600HP in 10yrs..
either that or they both cut weight
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:28 PM   #70
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I was talking to our Camaro club President who is a manager at a chevy dealership and he said that they were told that the Z28 will have non other than the LS9, do to the fact that GM has a contract with the engine builders of the LS9 to build x amount motors. The problem is the dealerships are not saling the ZR1,so they have a large stock of the LS9s with no car to put them in. So thats what they will put in the Z28. He also said it would be detuned, But did not specify hp. It will be offered in 2012. They don't want to hurt the convertible.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:32 PM   #71
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Ha. If that happens, it should certainly surpass the GT500 in performance, but I think it would also mean it would significantly surpass it in MSRP, too.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:40 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
Ha. If that happens, it should certainly surpass the GT500 in performance, but I think it would also mean it would significantly surpass it in MSRP, too.
hahaha yeah..
i dont understand why though..
i got my 2.4L 4cyl from 222wHP stock to 380wHP. Ran it at that for 50K miles then at 420wHP for last 30K miles before I sold with no problems. Power mods only costed $5,200 on top of car..
so how hard is it to get a 5L or 6.2L engine to produce 510wHP (600HP)
put two of those 4cyl together u got 444wHP stock and 760wHP what I ran it at modded.. brand new the engine long block costed $1,800
I think ford and GM ripping us off LoL..

Has there been any new news on the Z28. Last I heard there was talks that GM might put it back in the works.
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Old 05-27-2010, 12:24 AM   #73
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What makes you think the 2012 GT500 will only have 550hp?
Even if it does, a 550hp Z28 will not take it. Too much weight difference now that the GT500 has gone to a aluminum block. Anything short of LS9 or tweaked up LSA will mean failure in my mind for the upcoming Z28. I just dont see how they could lose the weight out of the Z28 to match the GT500 without using exotic parts and driving the cost way up if using the stock LSA. If I were in charge of building this car I would have a target hp goal of 580-600 FWHP. I would also make it exactly the same cost as the Shelby and not a penny more. These would be the rules of succes for the new Z28 me thinks. No one is going to buy the new Z28 if it is not at least dead even with the GT500.(outside of total brand loyalty anyway) All this talk of a LS7 is something I dont want to see because it will for sure fall short. Could they make a 550hp-600hp LS7? Most certainly. Will it pass the new CAFE, emission, and mpg standards? most certainly not. The new motor will have to be supercharged or turbocharged in order to meet the hp and mpg, emission goals.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:59 AM   #74
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Hey, I would buy the Z28 over the GT500 no matter if it's faster or not. I'm a Camaro guy all the way! When am I going to race a GT500 anyway? And even if the stars line up and I'm beside one at a red light, I probably wouldn't light 'em up 99 times out of a 100. Having 500+ HP under my right foot is going to be a blast no matter what! The Z28 will be a great car if they build it anywhere near what the rumors are. I for one, can't wait to see how it really ends up. Come on GM, quit screwing with us and give us some facts!
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Old 05-27-2010, 08:00 AM   #75
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I honestly hope that it is not supercharged. If it is...there will be such a large gap between the SS and the Z28 that I think it would seem out of place. I mean the SS already makes over 420 hp...if they give the Z28 500+..it would be like the GT500...the difference is...Ford doesn't currently make a car higher up in performance than the GT500...Chevy does. There's 3 different variants of the Corvette (C6, Z06, and ZR1). If they made the Z28 Camaro with 500+...I feel like there would be too much in brand competition and it would cost too much...but who knows. I think they should do what they did with the upper level 4th gen Camaros and just do added on SLP parts and give it a more aggressive tuning to put it around 450hp...but what do I know.
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:28 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by VADER SS L99 View Post
Even if it does, a 550hp Z28 will not take it. Too much weight difference now that the GT500 has gone to a aluminum block. Anything short of LS9 or tweaked up LSA will mean failure in my mind for the upcoming Z28. I just dont see how they could lose the weight out of the Z28 to match the GT500 without using exotic parts and driving the cost way up if using the stock LSA. If I were in charge of building this car I would have a target hp goal of 580-600 FWHP. I would also make it exactly the same cost as the Shelby and not a penny more. These would be the rules of succes for the new Z28 me thinks. No one is going to buy the new Z28 if it is not at least dead even with the GT500.(outside of total brand loyalty anyway) All this talk of a LS7 is something I dont want to see because it will for sure fall short. Could they make a 550hp-600hp LS7? Most certainly. Will it pass the new CAFE, emission, and mpg standards? most certainly not. The new motor will have to be supercharged or turbocharged in order to meet the hp and mpg, emission goals.
Words of reason - FINALLY!!! Many people keep spouting about LS7 and it would be the best choice and easily make more power and such; getting that power, while passing all of the requirements listed above would likely not be possible. I feel like I've been posting that since early discussions of Z28 began popping up I'd take a DI 6.2, but it'd have to be making at least 500 FWHP and compete at least on par with the then current GT500. Let's face it - with the GT500 getting the new stronger and lighter block, it's only going to get faster in a couple years. I'm thinking Z28 has to at least come with LSA and get dang close to 580 FWHP to remain competitive. I wouldn't have anything to complain about if Z28 arrives along those lines, because though it might not have the full power potential the GT500 has, slapping the usual easy SC bolt-ons, I'll be in the power range that I'm looking for. I just hope that they improve the handling to help justify the IRS Camaro comes standard with; I'm tired of those pesky Track Pack Mustangs giving us the finger, lol.

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Originally Posted by SweetSandMan View Post
I honestly hope that it is not supercharged. If it is...there will be such a large gap between the SS and the Z28 that I think it would seem out of place. I mean the SS already makes over 420 hp...if they give the Z28 500+..it would be like the GT500...the difference is...Ford doesn't currently make a car higher up in performance than the GT500...Chevy does. There's 3 different variants of the Corvette (C6, Z06, and ZR1). If they made the Z28 Camaro with 500+...I feel like there would be too much in brand competition and it would cost too much...but who knows. I think they should do what they did with the upper level 4th gen Camaros and just do added on SLP parts and give it a more aggressive tuning to put it around 450hp...but what do I know.
I just don't understand this train of thought. Why would one want to limit the potential of a car deliberately? Camaro is not Corvette. This whole post and similar ones like it in the past just make no sense, IMVHO.

Respectfully...
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:45 AM   #77
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I just don't understand this train of thought. Why would one want to limit the potential of a car deliberately? Camaro is not Corvette. This whole post and similar ones like it in the past just make no sense, IMVHO.

Respectfully...
I know it's not a Corvette...but How much do you think they are going to charge for a Z28 that has an engine like that in it and power like that?

I'm gussing it would be north of 45k...I just don't think the people in the market for a Camaro are willing to spend that much. I could be wrong...but Ford fans don't have a choice with the Ford GT no longer being produced...if they want to stay Ford and get the most performance, the GT500 is the only choice currently. If Chevy fans want the most performance..they can get any variant of a Corvette.

And with how good looking and well equipped a 2SS is...they would REEAAALLLYY have to do something special to justify the 45k+ price tag that a Camaro with that engine would more than likely cost.
I could be way off base....but I just don't see why they would make THAT big of a gap powerwise between the Z28 and the SS. And IIRC...the SS was always the "faster" of the 2 models.
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:18 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by SweetSandMan View Post
I honestly hope that it is not supercharged. If it is...there will be such a large gap between the SS and the Z28 that I think it would seem out of place. I mean the SS already makes over 420 hp...if they give the Z28 500+..it would be like the GT500...the difference is...Ford doesn't currently make a car higher up in performance than the GT500...Chevy does. There's 3 different variants of the Corvette (C6, Z06, and ZR1). If they made the Z28 Camaro with 500+...I feel like there would be too much in brand competition and it would cost too much...but who knows. I think they should do what they did with the upper level 4th gen Camaros and just do added on SLP parts and give it a more aggressive tuning to put it around 450hp...but what do I know.
Its a smaller gap than between the Mustang GT and the GT500, and a much smaller gap than between the CTS and the CTS-V.
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:58 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by SweetSandMan View Post
I know it's not a Corvette...but How much do you think they are going to charge for a Z28 that has an engine like that in it and power like that?

I'm gussing it would be north of 45k...I just don't think the people in the market for a Camaro are willing to spend that much. I could be wrong...but Ford fans don't have a choice with the Ford GT no longer being produced...if they want to stay Ford and get the most performance, the GT500 is the only choice currently. If Chevy fans want the most performance..they can get any variant of a Corvette.

And with how good looking and well equipped a 2SS is...they would REEAAALLLYY have to do something special to justify the 45k+ price tag that a Camaro with that engine would more than likely cost.
I could be way off base....but I just don't see why they would make THAT big of a gap powerwise between the Z28 and the SS. And IIRC...the SS was always the "faster" of the 2 models.
I would be shocked if it's less than high $40's or low 50's.
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:58 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by SweetSandMan View Post
I know it's not a Corvette...but How much do you think they are going to charge for a Z28 that has an engine like that in it and power like that?

I'm gussing it would be north of 45k...I just don't think the people in the market for a Camaro are willing to spend that much. I could be wrong...but Ford fans don't have a choice with the Ford GT no longer being produced...if they want to stay Ford and get the most performance, the GT500 is the only choice currently. If Chevy fans want the most performance..they can get any variant of a Corvette.

And with how good looking and well equipped a 2SS is...they would REEAAALLLYY have to do something special to justify the 45k+ price tag that a Camaro with that engine would more than likely cost.
I could be way off base....but I just don't see why they would make THAT big of a gap powerwise between the Z28 and the SS. And IIRC...the SS was always the "faster" of the 2 models.
It's my opinion they're going to price it around what a GT500 goes for with probably a similar premium that SS has over the GT. I, personally, have no problem with the idea of that, because I think Camaro comes with goodies that the Mustang doesn't that sustifies the premium. It just looks like my thinking is opposite of yours, whereas I think a person who could afford Z28 would still take it over a base Corvette. What makes me think that is looking at all those people who have tune cars (i.e. Tony Henry, Lingenfelter, Hennessey, etc.) that are spending upwards of $45K on mod'd SSs; they aren't spending that money on Corvettes, so I just happen to think that a person in the position of being able to afford Z28 will spend it there, and not on Corvette. I know if I'm in the position, my money would stay with Camaro.

JMVHO though...
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Old 05-27-2010, 12:25 PM   #81
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^ I agree with radz282003.
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Old 05-27-2010, 12:43 PM   #82
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Words of reason - FINALLY!!! Many people keep spouting about LS7 and it would be the best choice and easily make more power and such; getting that power, while passing all of the requirements listed above would likely not be possible. I feel like I've been posting that since early discussions of Z28 began popping up I'd take a DI 6.2, but it'd have to be making at least 500 FWHP and compete at least on par with the then current GT500. Let's face it - with the GT500 getting the new stronger and lighter block, it's only going to get faster in a couple years. I'm thinking Z28 has to at least come with LSA and get dang close to 580 FWHP to remain competitive. I wouldn't have anything to complain about if Z28 arrives along those lines, because though it might not have the full power potential the GT500 has, slapping the usual easy SC bolt-ons, I'll be in the power range that I'm looking for. I just hope that they improve the handling to help justify the IRS Camaro comes standard with; I'm tired of those pesky Track Pack Mustangs giving us the finger, lol.
I guess I'm late to the party on this thread and after vader and your post there isn't much else left to say. I agree with both of you 100%. Finally two smart voices of reason.
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:32 PM   #83
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id be happy with a smaller displacement, modular, supercharged motor. basically a gt500 with irs. i know im dreaming but i would like to see it.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:15 AM   #84
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i say scrap the z28 and make the bad boy " camaro like car " a firehawk.

any i can see a supercharger, gm seems to like slappin on boost to performance models these days.
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:59 AM   #85
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It's my opinion they're going to price it around what a GT500 goes for with probably a similar premium that SS has over the GT. I, personally, have no problem with the idea of that, because I think Camaro comes with goodies that the Mustang doesn't that sustifies the premium. It just looks like my thinking is opposite of yours, whereas I think a person who could afford Z28 would still take it over a base Corvette. What makes me think that is looking at all those people who have tune cars (i.e. Tony Henry, Lingenfelter, Hennessey, etc.) that are spending upwards of $45K on mod'd SSs; they aren't spending that money on Corvettes, so I just happen to think that a person in the position of being able to afford Z28 will spend it there, and not on Corvette. I know if I'm in the position, my money would stay with Camaro.

JMVHO though...
Make no mistake, If GM builds this car it will be to go after the GT500 market. The same way they went for the Mustang GT market with the SS. In my mind the GT500 has its own market. I dont ever like seeing or hearing the Corvette vs mustang debate. These are 2 different classes of cars and are on different playing fields. I dont care if they cost around the same or even perform around the same. In my mind the Corvette will always be a true sports car while the Camaro and Mustang will be true muscle cars. Now....... since most of us will agree that the Z28 will target the GT500(lol)we want it to cost and perform the same or better.
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