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Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission Tune and diagnostics for engines and auto transmission.

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Old 03-21-2010, 07:52 PM   #1
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Tuner will VOID warranty

you may want to read this before buying a tunner
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:08 PM   #2
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there has been several threads on this.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:12 PM   #3
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Warranty on mine was gone on Day 1...LOL

And my car is SOOO much better for it!

If it breaks, it'll get better parts...
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:14 PM   #4
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if you read thr pdf files you will see how gm knows how people have tunes on there cars, this will put an end to will it void my warranty or not, i would like to see a vendor show how if you go back to stock, gm will not be able to notice
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:28 PM   #5
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nice docs to have

Nice of GM to put it out there that as a matter of course any change voids warranty. If I have a problem and mods caused it, I pay; but, if there is a problem and it is caused by defect in the vehicle not the mods, then GM is going to pay. I don't believe a jury will like GM canceling warranties as a matter of course. This is just a humble country lawyer's opinion from Ga.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:32 PM   #6
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Hmm yea you're about a year late.

As for how it works going back to stock, when a tuner saves the factory tune, it also saves those verification numbers that those PDF's are talking about. So when you reinstall the factory tune, you also reinstall the factory verification numbers.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:43 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by honeybucket99 View Post
Nice of GM to put it out there that as a matter of course any change voids warranty. If I have a problem and mods caused it, I pay; but, if there is a problem and it is caused by defect in the vehicle not the mods, then GM is going to pay. I don't believe a jury will like GM canceling warranties as a matter of course. This is just a humble country lawyer's opinion from Ga.
i'm the same way, just trying to see what the tuners that say if you go back to stock tune the dealers will not know. i work at a dealer were we took a escalde in on trade and sold it and the motor blew up on it and it had a tune for the speedo nothing els(after market wheels), gm looked at the computer and did not pay for the warranty. so for the customer that had it when the motor went south we pick up half the bill of $4500
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:44 PM   #8
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Hmm yea you're about a year late.

As for how it works going back to stock, when a tuner saves the factory tune, it also saves those verification numbers that those PDF's are talking about. So when you reinstall the factory tune, you also reinstall the factory verification numbers.
I would like to see that
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:54 PM   #9
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I would like to see that
Then talk to Vector Motorsports. They do it all the time and have tunes in hundreds of cars and quite a few of them have been checked by GM with no issues what so ever.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:36 PM   #10
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if your worried you can simply return the stock tune and ther are no changes and it can not be detected period.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:49 PM   #11
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wonder how much money GM will save from warranty work they will not have to do on the camaro?
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:53 PM   #12
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not again!

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Old 03-23-2010, 03:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Stealth 2010 2SS/RS View Post
if you read thr pdf files you will see how gm knows how people have tunes on there cars, this will put an end to will it void my warranty or not, i would like to see a vendor show how if you go back to stock, gm will not be able to notice
easy, plug in predator or trinity, install tune, restore stock tune, go to dealer.

They will NEVER know.

Anyone ever wonder what GM engineers do when they leave GM? They go to work in the aftermarket....lol. Trust me, we know what we are doing!
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport View Post
easy, plug in predator or trinity, install tune, restore stock tune, go to dealer.

They will NEVER know.

Anyone ever wonder what GM engineers do when they leave GM? They go to work in the aftermarket....lol. Trust me, we know what we are doing!

Diablosport

Data logging custom tune and you control the program file to return your car to the stock tune if needed. Go to a dyno shop and you have to take your car back to them to return the stock tune.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:30 PM   #15
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if your worried you can simply return the stock tune and ther are no changes and it can not be detected period.
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

But thanks for trying.

I love how now I don't have to be the one to jump on these threads and be the "Fun Governor".

I used to get attacked for it..................now threads get started with it.

But most folks know that you "pay to play", the some think it's ok to commit fraud.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport View Post
easy, plug in predator or trinity, install tune, restore stock tune, go to dealer.

They will NEVER know.

Anyone ever wonder what GM engineers do when they leave GM? They go to work in the aftermarket....lol. Trust me, we know what we are doing!
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, apparently you left a while ago.

This is a major issue for GM, particularly in the performance segment. Steps have been taken.

But I do understand how part of your business depends on convincing people otherwise.
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:42 AM   #17
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This is like Apple iTunes vs Palm lol...surely an update will be developed to circumvent GM's verification.

If anything short out the PCM...its covered under the federal emission laws for 8 or 10 years anyways
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbusa View Post
Diablosport

Data logging custom tune and you control the program file to return your car to the stock tune if needed. Go to a dyno shop and you have to take your car back to them to return the stock tune.

All my fello camaro friends are doing so, but its annoying having to go back and forth
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:54 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

But thanks for trying.

I love how now I don't have to be the one to jump on these threads and be the "Fun Governor".

I used to get attacked for it..................now threads get started with it.

But most folks know that you "pay to play", the some think it's ok to commit fraud.

I believe he's CORRECT!, all my friends are doing it and its not noticable. Hench, I worked for BMW and Mitsubishi dealer as a Technical Engineer and it does not VOID the warranty taking back your tune to stock.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:56 AM   #20
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I believe he's CORRECT!, all my friends are doing it and its not noticable. Hench, I worked for BMW and Mitsubishi dealer as a Technical Engineer and it does not VOID the warranty taking back your tune to stock.
Sorry but times and technology continue to progress. What you experienced in the past with BMW and Mitsubishi does not have a lot to do with what GM is doing now.

If it's true that rolling back your tune and committing fraud can not be detected then the tuners can easily back up their work by backing up the warranty if it is voided.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:45 AM   #21
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Sorry but times and technology continue to progress. What you experienced in the past with BMW and Mitsubishi does not have a lot to do with what GM is doing now.

If it's true that rolling back your tune and committing fraud can not be detected then the tuners can easily back up their work by backing up the warranty if it is voided.
So, enlighten us sir, what is your engineering background?

When was the last time you reverse engineered an E38, or ANY GM processor for that matter?

I'm sure they say its impossible to hack the Pentagon too, but it has happened. As you have eluded to, times and technology do change, and that does not just work one way. The OEMs are not at some super duper level of programming that we cant figure out. Build a better mouse, we'll build a better mousetrap, follow?
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Old 03-24-2010, 02:19 PM   #22
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So, enlighten us sir, what is your engineering background?

When was the last time you reverse engineered an E38, or ANY GM processor for that matter?

I'm sure they say its impossible to hack the Pentagon too, but it has happened. As you have eluded to, times and technology do change, and that does not just work one way. The OEMs are not at some super duper level of programming that we cant figure out. Build a better mouse, we'll build a better mousetrap, follow?
I'm with Mike on this.

If we are able to reverse engineer most any GM controller you don't think we know exactly how they work?

Two other quick points.

1. If GM really wanted us out of these controllers we could not get in. GM knows that there is a huge aftermarket for many of their cars and don't want to kill sales because no one can modify them. Chrysler did this and it certainly hurt their sales.

2. I keep seeing words like "fraud" come up. After tuning well over 1000 2006 and newer GM vehicles, I have yet to see a warranty issue caused by one of our tunes. I have never heard of a Diablo calibration causing a a failure either. Where is the "fraud" if GM is not paying for claims that do not exist?

I keep telling myself I won't get dragged into another one of these threads, but I am proud of the service we provide our customers.
I was born in Detroit and most everybody I know is somehow connected to the auto industry. So I take offense when it is claimed that I would somehow hurt the industry that provides for my friends and family.
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:31 PM   #23
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Agreed...our company is based in Detroit, our President and CEO worked for Ford for years, and we recently hired 2 extremely talented engineers from the GM program, and none of them are looking to screw their friends and FAMILY who work for the OEMs.
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:49 PM   #24
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First, I'm not saying you guys can't recalibrate an ECM. And don't misunderstand me, I'm all for enthusiasts that use your services to provide said recalibrations. So it isn't that I doubt your mad hacker skills. So don't go there, that isn't the issue.

But as you guys come on this forum to represent your business, I come on here to represnt mine.

I don't need to know how to recalibrate a powertrain control module in order to have this discussion. But I do know the guys that do and I am informed that steps have been taken to be capable of recognizing when the ECM has been reprogrammed and re-reprogrammed. And I trust what these guys are telling me.

And lastly, fraud is defined as: A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

For a customer to violate their warranty and then try to hide that violation to secure warranty work is by that deffinition, fraud. But that is my opinion. Maybe yours is different.

So again, I support you guys. It is absolutly awesome that you guys can help customers squeeze more HP out of the Camaros. And it's cool that you have businesses that help customers achieve higher levels of performance. The cars are calibrated to achieve the best balance of performance, emissions, fuel economy and durability. If a customer wants to use your product to trade off durabilty for performance, awesome!!! It just shouldn't be at GM's expense, and that is why I get bothered when someone suggests you can undo the recalibration to get the work done.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:06 PM   #25
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First, I'm not saying you guys can't recalibrate an ECM. And don't misunderstand me, I'm all for enthusiasts that use your services to provide said recalibrations. So it isn't that I doubt your mad hacker skills. So don't go there, that isn't the issue.

But as you guys come on this forum to represent your business, I come on here to represnt mine.

I don't need to know how to recalibrate a powertrain control module in order to have this discussion. But I do know the guys that do and I am informed that steps have been taken to be capable of recognizing when the ECM has been reprogrammed and re-reprogrammed. And I trust what these guys are telling me.

And lastly, fraud is defined as: A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

For a customer to violate their warranty and then try to hide that violation to secure warranty work is by that deffinition, fraud. But that is my opinion. Maybe yours is different.

So again, I support you guys. It is absolutly awesome that you guys can help customers squeeze more HP out of the Camaros. And it's cool that you have businesses that help customers achieve higher levels of performance. The cars are calibrated to achieve the best balance of performance, emissions, fuel economy and durability. If a customer wants to use your product to trade off durabilty for performance, awesome!!! It just shouldn't be at GM's expense, and that is why I get bothered when someone suggests you can undo the recalibration to get the work done.

In brief, guys.. girls.. you CAN take back your tune to STOCK for service & warranty will NOT be voided.

with regards,
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