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Old 03-23-2010, 10:16 PM   #1
CBH
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Suspension Shootout

Has anyone seen a published article comparing suspension upgrades ?

It's great to see everybody praise so-and-so's products, but the most helpful thing for prospective buyers is to have a side-by-side evaluation done of several products. A real evaluation describing and comparing each setup, with an overall winner declared....or at least track and street winners.

CamaroFest seems like an ideal place to do this. Nobody would have to buy and install all the various companies' kits and components for the comparison since I'm sure at least one car with each major supplier's parts would be on hand.

Volunteers ?

Pedders
Pfadt
Hotchkiss
Eibach

Other popular setups woudl be welcome, but I believe all those companies supply entire kits (springs, swaybars, bushings, etc).
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:41 AM   #2
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We will all be at the Optima Challenge in Las Vegas. We are game!

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what's that?
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:55 PM   #3
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wow ... just wow nice driving and a very nice car!
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:36 PM   #4
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Another company that I am going with is Spohn
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by killinemsoftly View Post
what's that?
It was a very impromptu event at SEMA, where pedders got Paul Tracy to drive their car with 10xs the parts (and money) of several competitors heck...Hardly a challenge in reality, it was just a marketing event for company's with a good budget.

Are real challenge is a time attack event of sorts, with the same driver and conditions and power restrictions, and then we can test the real results of suspension engineering and product quality. Not the joke that was the optima challenge.

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Old 04-09-2010, 09:02 AM   #6
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Our Pedders Camaro is the best handling Camaro for the street in the USA. the Pedders Camaro is used for daily driving except when it is snowing. The outstanding Bridgestone RE11s are too wide for snow. Pete's girls love to be picked up in the Camaro. And of coarse, his girls have no problems spotting or hearing the Pedders Camaro in the school parking lot with all the other parents.

We have performed an extremely large amount of testing in dozens of stages of development, using telemetry equipment to g force meters, timing equipment,professional drivers, etc, etc. So we took our Camaro to the best we could make it, in the time frame we had, and monitoring the improvements, step by step. Our Camaro is now significantly better than it was at Sema and the Optima Challenge, and rides even better than it did last year.

Doing the process that we did, we know exactly what to expect in handling improvements with every component we have, as well as the specs we recommend for our setups.

With that said, when Pedders goes out to show and play, we go out with our best efforts. Some suspension companies are perfectly happy with getting their Camaros to a .97g. This would be a failure for us. Our Pedders Camaro can turn a 1.38g. We were over 1.0gs without a complete system. We know what tire combinations work the best. Many builders are into the looks of split configured, oversized wheels and tires for the rear. That may work for connecting better going straight, but is a hinderance thru the twisties and skid pad tests. Do to our testing, we set up our Camaro different than other companies as well. Why? Because we tested huge amounts of settings, and quantified the settings we have. They work! Maybe this is one of the big differences in the suspension companies and this shows everyone how serious we are. We brought people to Optima that could fine tune our Camaro to Paul Tracy's desires. Paul Tracy said "It's perfect, don't change a thing." With 3 professional drivers who have tested our Camaro, their only comments for improvements were better brakes, and R compound tires. We now have killer brakes, but since the Pedders Camaro is a street legal car, and a daily driver in non snow, R compound tires are not what we will do. but the tire experts tell us if we had the DOT R compound tires that many of the people at Optima were running, we would have decreased our track time upwards of 4 to 6 seconds.

We have some great things happening in 2010 and our plate is pretty full. We are applying the processes we developed with the Camaro development, to other US vehicle platforms. Lots of hard work, but it pays off in quality, reliability, and of coarse, results.


With respect to the Optima Challenge, most of the major suspension manufacturers knew they would be going to the Optima Challenge months and months ahead of time. If they knew they were going, and knowing the amount of automotive press that would be there, wouldn't you want your vehicle to perform the best you can make it? There were other 2010 Camaros there running equal hp, and full systems, yet they were 20-25 seconds slower. Is Paul Tracy a fantastic driver and advisor to us?? Absolutely. But the racing talent of other suspension owners is seriously great. Pedders should not be criticized for coming to the table with a properly prepared Camaro, ready to show off what we can do to the world and looking every bit as aggressive as she handles.

The only prep work we did to the Camaro was the exterior. We did esthetic treatments in preparation for SEMA because being on display there, we wanted her to look awesome, which is expected!


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Old 04-11-2010, 11:45 PM   #7
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let go to the track and pruve this take off the blower and put the stock tires on and lets find out , my car air lift and your car
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:20 PM   #8
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Getting everyone together will be quite a challenge. the cost will be emense to do such a project. Plus there will always be someone to say they had more hp than me, or they had a better driver than me, or they had better tires than me.........

Everyone saw what the Pedders Camaro could do. It is seriously better now. So the question will be what will show up at the Optima Challenge this year?

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Old 04-12-2010, 11:28 PM   #9
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it would be too expensive and too hard to make sure all cars were equal other than suspension...

just go with test results already available ....

imo for the ultimate suspension go pedders.. if you just want looks.. get a cheaper drop kit
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:59 PM   #10
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It is challenging sometimes to make comparitive data anaylsis based on what is published. I.E. There is info that a suspension company has published about one of their parts in terms of strength that is mathematicaly impossible to achieve. So I can seriously understand the challlenges the Camaro consumer has. There are 3 serious manufacturers bidding for your business, and a half dozen other non serious companies doing a sudo attempt for the Camaro business as well.

So I do not know what the best solution is. Things to consider when making your selections are:
1. How well is the manufacturer represented on the forum
2. How easy is it to get technical data from them
3. Does the manufacturer own a Camaro for their own testing
4. Does the manufacturer offer complete solutions for the Camaro
5. Does the manufacturer offer you data on improvement. their product makes

There is more to this but it is a great start

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Old 04-13-2010, 10:31 AM   #11
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We'd welcome a suspension shootout anytime. In fact, there are even a few major companies that offer parts for the 5th Gen that have no forum presence that we would like to see in the mix. Couldn't think of a better outlet for a shootout like that then Camaro Performers Magazine - and they have an excellent testing facility at El Toro Airbase. If forum members sent email to CamaroPerformers@sorc.com and asked for the shootout, we bet they'd do it.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:52 PM   #12
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I'd really like to see the test on a stock car with stock tires. What suspension components will be tested? You can't have one guy come with springs and sways and another come with coilovers, sways, and bushings...everyone needs to be on an equal playing field.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:43 PM   #13
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Thanks for keeping this thread alive !!

I'm pragmatic - I just want a subjective assessment by a couple of regular forum members after driving/riding in people's cars at CamaroFest next weekend. Ride quality/comfort is subjective by nature anyway, and that's one of my most important criteria. This is my only car, so comfort means more to me than 0.01 better lateral G......

Any takers ?

Of course a full-blown write-up from a published source would be fantastic. I'd love to see that too.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:22 PM   #14
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Any C-Fest observations on various suspension setups ?
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Thanks for keeping this thread alive !!

I'm pragmatic - I just want a subjective assessment by a couple of regular forum members after driving/riding in people's cars at CamaroFest next weekend. Ride quality/comfort is subjective by nature anyway, and that's one of my most important criteria. This is my only car, so comfort means more to me than 0.01 better lateral G......

Any takers ?

Of course a full-blown write-up from a published source would be fantastic. I'd love to see that too.

With a concern on comfort, yet wanting to have serious improvement, So I might suggest doing things in steps. But first I would want a specific description of your driving habits, goals, wheels and tires, engin mods. I wish you were in the SF Bay area. I have 3 outragous Camaros that you could test

Pedders offers lots of choices from basic stuff to full outright track capable systems. We have a system for everyone.

But we are a huge supporter of getting you in the front seat of a Pedderized Camaro.

mike
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:55 PM   #16
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Any C-Fest observations on various suspension setups ?
I did my first ever autocross in my V6 with Pedders XA coilovers at C5F. I got to make 4 passes with my car. Best time of 39.680 was better than a lot of the V8s there (and best V6 by a couple of seconds)!

I used Mike's alignment specs and setup info and was VERY pleased with the results! Keep in mind, that time was posted with stock P-Zeros as well!

The everyday ride quality is a bit stiffer for me since I run the dampening settings pretty high. When softened up the ride is supple and better than stock IMHO.

I am not new to suspension setup either. I've road raced motorcycles at a professional level so I'm fairly well versed in suspension setup.... probably more so than most. I can tell you, you will not be disappointed with this setup!

And if these XAs are too "mundane" for you, Pedders has a new version out with remote reservoirs that will suite any need up to and including professional level competition!

One of the guys at the fest shot some HD video, of my runs, that I will post here when he sends me the footage....

Big thanks to Mike (DMS) for the help with the setup! It ROCKS!

PS: I also had the fastest V6 1/4 mile time of the event at 14.37@96.51 (DA was +1978)



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Old 04-22-2010, 08:31 PM   #17
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I did my first ever autocross in my V6 with Pedders XA coilovers at C5F. I got to make 4 passes with my car. Best time of 39.680 was better than a lot of the V8s there (and best V6 by a couple of seconds)!

I used Mike's alignment specs and setup info and was VERY pleased with the results! Keep in mind, that time was posted with stock P-Zeros as well!

The everyday ride quality is a bit stiffer for me since I run the dampening settings pretty high. When softened up the ride is supple and better than stock IMHO.

I am not new to suspension setup either. I've road raced motorcycles at a professional level so I'm fairly well versed in suspension setup.... probably more so than most. I can tell you, you will not be disappointed with this setup!

And if these XAs are too "mundane" for you, Pedders has a new version out with remote reservoirs that will suite any need up to and including professional level competition!

One of the guys at the fest shot some HD video, of my runs, that I will post here when he sends me the footage....

Big thanks to Mike (DMS) for the help with the setup! It ROCKS!

PS: I also had the fastest V6 1/4 mile time of the event at 14.37@96.51 (DA was +1978)



You did fantastic since it was your first autocross. Pete and I did a autocross out here in California and had a ton of nubies. We helped them a huge amount. Many had improvements of 10 seconds!!

this is such a fun thing to do

thanks
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:43 AM   #18
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I was there in the Pfadt booth, and watching some of the auto cross times, and it seemed the pfadt products did very well, taking number one and number two.

Info can be found here http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78563

Regards

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Old 04-23-2010, 09:45 AM   #19
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It was a very impromptu event at SEMA, where Pedders got Paul Tracy to drive their car with 10xs the parts (and money) of several competitors heck...Hardly a challenge in reality, it was just a marketing event for company's with a good budget.

Are real challenge is a time attack event of sorts, with the same driver and conditions and power restrictions, and then we can test the real results of suspension engineering and product quality. Not the joke that was the optima challenge.

-Regards
There was nothing impromptu about it. Jimi Day plans the Challenge along with a number of supporters very carefully. It was televised on the SPEED channel. Impromptu, no way.

Wow, were the other guys blindfolded with one hand tied behind their back and running on only three tires with a bowl of goldfish on the seat. I find these after the fact explanations comical. I used to here them when I was a careless young and foolih street racer, from the guy that just lost...

Pedders was a LAST MINUTE ADDITION to the Optima Challenge. The car we ran is MY DAILY DRIVER. My wife drives the kids to school in the car. The event is the Ultimate Street Car Challenge and not excuse-fest. A number of 5th Gen Camaros went head to head on track. Only one was the fastest by a large margin. Pedders took their DAILY DRIVER and posted the 3rd fastest time overall (with a very good driver who had never been in the car before, but is a long time friend and advisor) at the event on the road course and the fastest time for any 5th Gen Camaro. Aaron is a race car driver. He drove the Pfadt prepped Camaro. The results are what they are. The Pfadt car ran what it ran. There are no excuses on a race track and all that matters is the time you run and where you finish.

I see no data acquisition equipment in any brand x-suspension car running road course to document performance and post it on the forum other than Pedders. I have seen a lot of parking lot exhibitions for brand-x, but no hard core runs on a road course with performance detailed data posted.

Pedders was hands down the first to be fast with the 5th Gen and post exactly how to be that fast on the forum. We posted the corner weights, we posted the alignment specifications, we posted the coil rates, the damper settings, the RWHP, the wheel and tire details, the sway bar rates, brake information, pad information, tire, caliper and rotor temps all right here on the forum. We told everybody BEFORE the OPTIMA CHALLENGE EXACTLY HOW TO BE FAST AND EXACTLY WHAT WE HAD ON OUR CAR. Pedders taught the 5th Gen community how to be fast on a road course ON THE FORUM. With all the Pedders data published on the forum, how could ANYONE show up at an event and NOT be prepared?

There is too much whining, complaining and BS on the board. The Pfadt car ran what it ran. You lost. It is over and done and nothing you say can change the results.

I / Pedders corporate did not make it to C5Fest, and that is a huge disappointment to me. Worse I did not run a prepared car in the autocross or arrange a prepared car. Shame on me. I should have. Aaron planned well for C5Fest. His two prepped cars with carefully selected drivers posted the fastest times. Pedders CONGRATULATES Aaron and Pfadt for their success at C5Fest. Well Done TEAM Pfadt!
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauwulf View Post
I did my first ever autocross in my V6 with Pedders XA coilovers at C5F. I got to make 4 passes with my car. Best time of 39.680 was better than a lot of the V8s there (and best V6 by a couple of seconds)!

I used Mike's alignment specs and setup info and was VERY pleased with the results! Keep in mind, that time was posted with stock P-Zeros as well!

The everyday ride quality is a bit stiffer for me since I run the dampening settings pretty high. When softened up the ride is supple and better than stock IMHO.

I am not new to suspension setup either. I've road raced motorcycles at a professional level so I'm fairly well versed in suspension setup.... probably more so than most. I can tell you, you will not be disappointed with this setup!

And if these XAs are too "mundane" for you, Pedders has a new version out with remote reservoirs that will suite any need up to and including professional level competition!

One of the guys at the fest shot some HD video, of my runs, that I will post here when he sends me the footage....

Big thanks to Mike (DMS) for the help with the setup! It ROCKS!

PS: I also had the fastest V6 1/4 mile time of the event at 14.37@96.51 (DA was +1978)



Really WELL DONE! Congratulations!!!
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:53 AM   #21
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Suspension Shoot Out -- How about a Sexiest Shoot Out

Most everyone with a 5th Gen is into bolt-on technology. Pedders is now involved with the ULTIMATE BOLT-ON DREAM PROJECT



Oops, wrong dream. This dream is to build a NASCAR style circle track car from a body in white and do it in an environmentally positive way. The dream is to go racing with E85, cats and be socially responsible AND beat the traditional style race cars that are HD polluters. On top of that, we do it on a reasonable budget with off the shelf parts so that this class of racing is available to most anyone who can turn a wrench along with a couple of buddies in his garage.



So which would be sexier to a 5th Gen Camaro Enthusiast? A 5th Gen NASCAR style dedicated race car built from off the shelf part that kicks a$$ on track or Pamela Anderson?


VOTE HERE
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:00 AM   #22
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Pedders CONGRATULATES Aaron and Pfadt for their success at C5Fest. Well Done TEAM Pfadt!
Thank you! We appreciate it. Like we have posted elsewhere, it was important to us to show up for this community, prepare a plan for some customer cars, and show what we could to compared to the competition. We had time for this preparation, and it paid off. We look forward to any other events of this nature that we can attend. Thanks guys!
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:07 AM   #23
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Thank you! We appreciate it. Like we have posted elsewhere, it was important to us to show up for this community, prepare a plan for some customer cars, and show what we could to compared to the competition. We had time for this preparation, and it paid off. We look forward to any other events of this nature that we can attend. Thanks guys!
You earned it. We'll run head to head again. I am looking forward to it as I am sure you are.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:27 AM   #24
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You can buy a Camaro body from Gm Performance. Only $7000



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Old 04-23-2010, 10:46 AM   #25
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Economy is a key element of the project. Not only will it be environmentally friendly, it will be bank account friendly. Keeping the cost down is as important and using renewable fuels and reducing emissions.
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